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Poorer students will now get 2 free years uni. another attack on middle income family Watch

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    People only start paying back the loan when they are earning over 21,000 so surely when they have reached that salary they are no longer poor by default. What has their background got to do with anything when they are earning over that margin? In my opinion the government should help the poor and not the ex poor.
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    (Original post by Winter Rain)
    Why would you assume that I come from a middle class family?
    Question is made irreleveant by the fact that you do.
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    (Original post by morecambebay)
    "unable" and "more of a proplem are not the same thing are they?
    Something can be a problem without making somebody unable.

    Ill say it again because you are obviously having difficulty catching on... family income is about much much more than finances. Security, confidence, and opportunities would be three others.

    You seem to genuinely believe that money makes no difference to a person beyond its financial aspects, well...you're just wrong.

    A child from a poor family who gets onto the same university course than you, has worked and will have to work much harder than you.
    Again, this is completely unrelated to what I'm saying. The two people will be worlds apart personality wise, in the past they won't have had the same oppotunities or life style. But I still don't think that people from a poorer family should recieve more help than those from a wealthy background where the parents choose to cut them off completely. Regardless of who they are or where they came from, it's not going to make it any easier for those people to pay for food and accomondation, while at university, if they get no help. And I STILL don't think that the amount of help should be down to what they parents have if they aren't supporting the child.
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    (Original post by Flob)
    This money would be better spent on increasing maintenance grants/loans, which are what can be really restrictive. Tuition fees shouldn't stop anybody from going to uni, but living costs can.

    Having said that, for lots of poorer students I think the prospect of massive debt is more of a deterrent to going to uni, so this measure might help prevent that from happening. But I'm not really sure its fair, and like I said, it could be better spent.
    Yes, but Browne designed a comprehensive system.

    These are simply the political compromises needed for it to gain support. An influential politician or politicians, not necessarily LibDem, wants a year or two's fee remission to secure his or her support. Therefore this, which will cost relatively little, has been offered irrespective of how sensible it is in the overall scheme of things.

    Think yourself lucky he didn't want the Student Loans Company to be moved to Qatar.
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    (Original post by Summer_Lovin)
    My Parents pay my tuition fees and we are not rich at all - in fact i am eligible for the full maintenance grant
    Well something there ain't right...
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      (Original post by Winter Rain)
      Again, this is completely unrelated to what I'm saying. The two people will be worlds apart personality wise, in the past they won't have had the same oppotunities or life style. But I still don't think that people from a poorer family should recieve more help than those from a wealthy background where the parents choose to cut them off completely. Regardless of who they are or where they came from, it's not going to make it any easier for those people to pay for food and accomondation, while at university, if they get no help. And I STILL don't think that the amount of help should be down to what they parents have if they aren't supporting the child.
      Like talking to a brick wall.
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      (Original post by morecambebay)
      They can, they just choose to pay for other things instead...like a big garden, new kitchen or a nice holiday. when they choose to spend money on these luxaries, they are making the decision to have less money available for other things.

      Poor families dont have enough money to begin with.
      Middle income families do, they just dont spend it well.
      This has got nothing to do with families (and you are making some hideously naive comments to do with middle income families). The coalition have said that you will only start to pay off your debt when you are earning 21,000. So why should anyone have some of their debt paid when they are apparently earning enough to start to pay off their debt?
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      (Original post by morecambebay)
      There is nothing stopping you from going to university. If your parents want to make things easier for you though, they are going to have to accept that they cant have all the luxaries they want .
      Yes, there is.

      The maintenance loan that I would receive does not cover the living expenses of university. There are 5 kids in my family and we plain and simple cannot afford university. Why should my entire family suffer just so I can go to university?
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      (Original post by Winter Rain)
      But I still don't think that people from a poorer family should recieve more help than those from a wealthy background where the parents choose to cut them off completely.
      Please explain how the government are meant to know if someone's well off parents won't help them out? It's reasonable to assume that if someone has parents from a wealthy background, the parents will help their child out should they not have enough money for things like food, whereas someone who comes from a poorer household will not have this support or may struggle more, and should get more help to avoid such a situation.
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      if this bill is passed, will it apply to those starting uni in 2011 or 2012 ?

      also, isn't there already some sort of financial help for those from families with income lower than 16,000?
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      (Original post by win5ton)
      This has got nothing to do with families (and you are making some hideously naive comments to do with middle income families). The coalition have said that you will only start to pay off your debt when you are earning 21,000. So why should anyone have some of their debt paid when they are apparently earning enough to start to pay off their debt?
      Right on Winston, old bean! Jolly good show, old boy! You show those ragamuffins! :top2:
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      (Original post by Plonk)
      Please explain how the government are meant to know if someone's well off parents won't help them out? It's reasonable to assume that if someone has parents from a wealthy background, the parents will help their child out should they not have enough money for things like food, whereas someone who comes from a poorer household will not have this support or may struggle more, and should get more help to avoid such a situation.
      Please explain why a graduate should have some of his debt paid if he is earning an amount which the government think is reasonable salary to start paying his debt off himself.
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      Im confused. This is not even confirmed is it? AND what are the chances of it happening anyway...
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      (Original post by TravelGuru)
      The threshold is £25,000 not £10,000 I believe? 30 Years? Is that it?
      Link?
      I very much doubt the threshold is that high. Half your figure and you will probably be right.


      (Original post by Cicerao)
      Maybe you might not be getting money off your parents, but I sure as hell if you got into any trouble they'd bail you out, if you were desperate for food they'd get you some. If you dropped out they'd take you back into their home. You and other middle class people may have a safety net, but many lower class people do not.

      And I'm sorry, if you're going to tell me your parents wouldn't do any of the above, you're bull****ting. Do not overestimate your own independence.
      This. I am so happy someone else has made this point. Yes, some richer parents will not support their kids at uni. But, if their kids do end up in financial trouble, and do need the help, then the parents WILL help. Poorer parents wouldn't, cos they physically could not afford to.
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        (Original post by Rooster523)
        Yes, there is.

        The maintenance loan that I would receive does not cover the living expenses of university. There are 5 kids in my family and we plain and simple cannot afford university. Why should my entire family suffer just so I can go to university?
        So, up and down the country, people from families like your own are being prevented from going to uni? yeah? *******s.
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        (Original post by win5ton)
        Please explain why a graduate should have some of his debt paid if he is earning an amount which the government think is reasonable salary to start paying his debt off himself.
        This thread is about the proposal to give students from low income backgrounds reduced tuition fees for up to two years. I don't see how your post and the thread topic are related.
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        (Original post by Cicerao)
        Right on Winston, old bean! Jolly good show, old boy! You show those ragamuffins! :top2:
        Easy blood, u betters take dat bak b4 me and me G's cm round yr way and black you up silly. Blood.
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        (Original post by Cicerao)
        Question is made irreleveant by the fact that you do.
        You know nothing about me, where I come from or what my life is like. But since you seem so interested...
        My financial support will mainly be from my home country, where education is highly prioritised, once you're above 18 years old and attending a higher education they goverment will pay for 5,600 pounds a year roughly to help you, butonly for 5 years. The rest comes from my savings that I have worked since the age of 12 to save up. My parents could support me a little yes, but given recent family problems, I would never ask them because they are struggling too. Where I come from is irrelavent to how I'm going to survive, my parents have helped me to where I am now, but that does NOT mean that they can continue to do so!

        (Original post by Plonk)
        Please explain how the government are meant to know if someone's well off parents won't help them out? It's reasonable to assume that if someone has parents from a wealthy background, the parents will help their child out should they not have enough money for things like food, whereas someone who comes from a poorer household will not have this support or may struggle more, and should get more help to avoid such a situation.
        Of course it's difficult, and will be miss used. And normally parents would probably support the student if they could. But what I'm saying is, if they can't/won't, why should that student not get the same help? I don't have an answer to how to make the system work perfectly and I admit that.

        The place I grew up, university is free, if you make the grades through hard work the goverment will pay the fees for you. And if you work hard and attend a higher education beyond the age of 18, everyone can apply for support.
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        (Original post by Plonk)
        This thread is about the proposal to give students from low income backgrounds reduced tuition fees for up to two years. I don't see how your post and the thread topic are related.
        Poor you.
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        (Original post by Winter Rain)
        Of course it's difficult, and will be miss used. And normally parents would probably support the student if they could. But what I'm saying is, if they can't/won't, why should that student not get the same help? I don't have an answer to how to make the system work perfectly and I admit that.

        The place I grew up, university is free, if you make the grades through hard work the goverment will pay the fees for you. And if you work hard and attend a higher education beyond the age of 18, everyone can apply for support.
        There is help available for everyone who faces hardship, regardless of income. Most universities have money set aside specifically for students who find themselves struggling, but I don't agree with the argument that students from poorer families somehow don't deserve some extra help.
       
       
       
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