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Black people/Santa/Jesus on the front of xmas cards & racial prejudice at xmas Watch

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    (Original post by RabbitCFH)
    Jesus, Mary, Joseph and Santa were white. If you portray them as black, it's like a white Martin Luther King.
    well Santa is pretty much a fictional character, he can be the colour of what ever nation celebrates Christmas.

    Jesus,Mary and Joseph. Logically I'd have to assume they were brown skinned considering where they lived. Jesus would have likely had black hair..
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    Jesus, mary, joseph et al originated from modern day isreal/palestine, remember at this time the area was under Roman control. The native colour of the skin from these parts is not black, rather a olive-brownish colour.

    The idea of santa claus is based on Saint Nicholas, who originated from modern day turkey.
    http://www.stnicholascenter.org/Brix?pageID=38

    It would be historically incorrect to portray any of these characters as black.

    I can't see how any of this could be racial prejudice? Other than the idea of black angel, the one of which you posted http://www.sweetberrylane.com/images/P/7544lr.jpg is hardly most peoples idea of an angel.
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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    lol! would you be offended of feel awkward if a coloured person gave you one of these?

    also @ people saying Jesus was white northern european, look at Revelations 1:13-16

    "His head and hairs [were] white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes [were] as a flame of fire;
    1:15 - And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. "

    so his hair was wooly like a black person, not silky like a northern european, and his skin was like brass burned in a furnace, presumably bronzed, brownish and glowing not pale and pasty.
    I'm sorry, but lol. Jesus walked around barefoot or in sandals, his feet are gonna be dirty. Didn't he go on massive treks through the middle east too? His feet will show that. In fact, I would think that's precisely the reason why his feet are specifically described rather than his skin.

    When I describe a person's skin colour, I don't randomly go on about their feet.
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    (Original post by felix06)
    Jesus is white in China

    1. from as far as i can remember, in the stories, Santa came from northern Europe.It's true that Santa is not real, but he has his back ground setting that make him a native of northern Europe and I don't get what's the point to make a native of northern Europe brown.


    2.I'm Chinese and I will appreciate the card, but still not the brown Santa--never make him Chinese or i won't be able to hold my laugh
    Hmm, yeah okay I take back my point partly. Jesus may also be depicted as white in foreign places due to whites going abroad to preach with pictures of a white Jesus. However, it's true to say that you can find Chinese Jesus pictures, whereas in England, Jesus is near almost depicted as white. Likewise, you can probably get white Jesus pictures in Africa too - but you won't get Chinese Jesus. And in China, I'm guessing you won't get African Jesus. Correct me anyone if I'm wrong on this!
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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    hi guys

    there seems to be a general assumption that father christmas is white, and Jesus Mary and Joseph are all white. now im not racist, and most white people would be the first to say things like 'race doesnt matter'. but in my experience people find the idea of black people on christmas cards uncomfortable.

    im brown-skinned(indigenous south american), and last year i saw some ethnic xmas religious cards in oxfam. i gave them out, and noticed when i had previously given normal, non black cards, people would glance at the front, read the inside then saw 'aww thats so sweet, thanks'. but wwith the black cards, they would look long and hard at the front of the card, then back at me, then at the front of the card, glance at the inside, and uncomfortably and awkwardly put it back in the envelope and say 'thanks, merry xmas' without looking me in the eye. they also would assume that the fact i had given black cards instead of 'normal' ones meant i had a chip on my shoulder about race.
    here are the type im talking about:

    A dark father christmas
    http://rlv.zcache.com/ethnic_christm...59q0ou_400.jpg

    http://papercards.com/store/graphics/card7570l-f.jpg

    A dark Jesus Mary and Joseph
    http://www.blackartdepot.com/african...stmascards.jpg

    http://www.ccrsupport.com/images/xmas75430.gif

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_iYpeJVoyyO...tmas-cards.jpg

    A dark angel
    http://www.sweetberrylane.com/images/P/7544lr.jpg

    at this time of year i also get alot of white folk asking me 'are you flying home soon for xmas' (i live and was born in the uk) and even folks who have seen me in the church every sunday for several years sometimes ask me after xmas mass or midnight mass AT CHURCH 'so, do you celebrate xmas'? in fact lots of people ask me that last question even at work. but if i say to them 'yes, i celebrate xmas, do you?'they get offended... duh!! or like when i meet new people and they say 'where are you from?''London''no,where are yu from originally' 'I was born in London' *awkward silence* they get mega offended and think im making fun of them. in my last workplace (PwC)i was at an xmas lunch and the senior partner said to me 'so do you celebrate xmas''yes, i do' then a manager said 'what religion are you''Roman Catholic'*awkward silcence, partner and manager look at each other* 'no, what religion are you really, its ok you can tell us'

    like wtf??? are there no brown christians????

    does anyone else find there is alot of racial prejudice around at this time of year? and would you buy these ethnic xmas cards to give out?
    He is white because of tradition and was based on a white Christian Saint.

    Stop reading into things that are not there and go learn some history.
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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    hi guys

    there seems to be a general assumption that father christmas is white, and Jesus Mary and Joseph are all white. now im not racist, and most white people would be the first to say things like 'race doesnt matter'. but in my experience people find the idea of black people on christmas cards uncomfortable.
    In all likelihood, Jesus was not black, brown nor white but more of an olive, mediterranean complexion as befitted the inhabitants of that particular region. However Jesus and pals have been depicted as white for millenia in countless religious images. Christianity is associated with Europe more than any other continent or place. It makes sense that christian religious symbols would look like the usual worshippers, i.e. white. Changing Jesus to make him black or whatever breaks the traditional, age old and instantly recognizable bearded figue that has been around almost forever. Changing such symbols (the same applies to santa) just for political correctness is just stupid and it's no wonder people do not respond well to your christmas cards. From their perspective, you're being all passive aggressive and trying to start trouble by testing their reaction to a black jesus. By presenting the modified cards people feel that you are going to start pointing fingers and being all angry and offended in their faces with political slogans at a time year when all should be merry. I mean, did you really think that was subtle on your part?

    As for the people that have trouble acknowledging your christianity, well some of them might have been simply ignorant but the likeliest explanation is that people are paradoxically trying their best not to be offensive to you. They are careful because if they assume you are roman catholic you might throw a fit saying other cultures are ignored. Overly sensitive people like you who have too much free time make social situations a minefield for white people who can't speak for fear of offending some culture or other with even the most casual remark.

    Cheer up and enjoy xmas like everybody else, religious or non-religious, brown or pink.
    i'd actually find receiving these cards kinda cool, but I would suspect belligerent intentions on your part.
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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    but in Genesis, their roots were in assyria (ethiopia) so they would have been more black. they certainly wouldnt have been white Nordic blonds.
    :rofl: Assyria isn't in ethiopia, it's in mesopotamia - the the northern part of the middle east. And besides, you are more likely to find a "white nordic blond" in mesopotamia than in sub-saharan africa - they actually exist there.
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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    if race doesnt matter then why is this image uncomfortable? if race doesnt matter then why are there not a diversity of different races represented in xmas cards? maybe people might like to give someone a xmas card with an image they can relate to? it is easy to say 'race doesnt matter' when it is YOUR race that is unanamously represented on EVERY SINGLE mainstream xmas card. if you walk into clintons cards, i can see why you would think race is not an issue - because there is no race other than the white race on cards!!!!

    as for your point 'it has always been that way, why change it', does that mean Barbie should always be blond because it was always that way? does that mean apartheid in South Africa shouldnt have ended? does that mean the president of the states had always been white, so Obama shouldnt have been allowed to become president because having a white president 'had always been the way, why change it?'

    it is easy to ignore issues of race when you are enjoying white privlidge and you cannot see what you have. even though something 'has always been that way' doesnt mean it has to STAY that way for our future generations. sometimes these prejudices NEED to change to advance ethnic diversity. not black rights, not white rights but EQUALITY.
    The majority of the UK is white something people on this forum seem to forget. So naturally most things will solely relate to white people.
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    op is a *******
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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    racial equality means that if i give you a card with a white face or a brown face on it, or if you see a brown newsreader instead of a white one, you would simply see a christmas card or a newsreader, NOT a brownfacednewsreader or brownfacedxmas card.

    after all, race shouldnt matter should it?

    so if i as a brown person choose to give you as my white friend a nice quality xmas card with a brown santa on it, why would you find that weird and not simply appreciate the gesture that i have gievn you a nice xmas card?
    Why are you so obsessed with issues like this? Its pretty pathetic
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    At the end the only one who feels offended, when he shouldn't be is the OP.

    Santa is white due to tradition. It's not like black people live in Lapland... Just because you feel offended that on postcards he isn't white, doesn't mean that having a card with a white Santa is racist. (what about a "yellow" Santa? How come Chinese/Japanese/ Korean etc people aren't making a fuss about it?)

    Christ being blond - he is with brown hair, probably with arab features (Geographical region). Pls don't be RACIST by saying that only black people have curly hair, lets have some respect!

    If you truly believe in Christmas, the fact that Santa is portraited black or white wouldn't matter to you. If you are a nice person, you won't try to shove the fact that the person in front of you is racist by giving him a card with a black Santa. Because hey, its like as someone said - giving a Black person a card with a white Martin Luther King. How would you feel?



    I feel offended by the fact that whenever I get a card which has something to do with jazz or blues - it has a black person on it! Thats SO SO SOOOOO racist!

    Im going to make a thread about it. *sarcasm*



    ...
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    (Original post by Dirac Delta Function)
    Black man, in your house, with a bag full of items...it's difficult to see it any other way.
    HA HA HA! very funny!:mad:
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    Who cares, these are all fictional characters. Santa isn't real, jesus isn't real, mary isn't real. Xenu is real though!
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    Father Christmas lives in the North Pole, and from my knowledge is indigenous to the region, therefore should probably be either white/eskimo.

    I agree with the flawed perception of JM and J as white.
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    I have PROOF that Father Christmas isn't black. Because if Father Christmas was black, his sledge would be pulled over at night by the police all the time, and the presents would then be late. Simple.
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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    but in Genesis, their roots were in assyria (ethiopia) so they would have been more black. they certainly wouldnt have been white Nordic blonds.
    I didn't know that. I never thought they were white. I bet the Christain church made people believe they were white so christains could indentifiy with them.
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    (Original post by RabbitCFH)
    They were Jewish.
    Exactly aka semites who are not white. Ancient Jews did not look like european modern Jews who have mixed with the local populations. Ancient Jews looked just like Arabs who are of the same genetic stock.
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    (Original post by RabbitCFH)
    Jesus, Mary, Joseph and Santa were white. If you portray them as black, it's like a white Martin Luther King.
    Jesus, Mary and Joseph were Jews from Bethlehem a Palestinian city?
    They were brown, most probably. Not snow white.
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    This thread seems to have turned into a confusion between some Christmas cards that are so painfully politically correct that it hurts, and an irrelevant and redundant debate about the historical accuracy of great Western Christian art. Now strangely enough most depictions of biblical scenes depict Europeans, since the stories in them are being told by, Europeans to Europeans. It is a redundant question to ask what is the ethnicity of angels, since no one has ever veritably encountered such a winged being in the flesh; but funnily enough, when depicted by Europeans for Europeans, they have tended to have European features.... ZOOOMG racist medieval Europeans etc etc
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    I think the OP is a troll, actually. Nobody can be this moronic and militantly ethnocentric.
 
 
 
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