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Why must people continue to insist the fees prevent poorer students from goin to uni? Watch

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    People see this figure 9000/year and think "OMG how can I afford that?", when really it's not that bad. The stupid thing is, I would possibly be better on the new 2012 system(if I deferred my application for a year), rather than on the 2011 system ie:
    The government pays 2 years tuition fees for low income families, meaning only paying 6-9K in the last year; working out as 2-3K/annum
    Im applying in 2011, as I want to continue education, when I can!
    If 2011 students enter a contract where they pay £3290+inflation/annum, that means that they are paying £9870+inflation over the 3 year period, so a possible £3870 more!

    Its also stupid for the gov't to give free tuition for two years. Instead they should give a higher bursary for people with lower incomes Id say. If someone is studying a course, with all types of students(all from different financial backgrounds), they may all expect to get around 30K/annum out of university, meaning they should theoretically be as well off as each other

    Whilst at university, the richer students will have "Mummy and Daddy" to support them when the **** hits the fan. It will be harder for the poorer students. Whilst at university, the poorer students will possibly be struggling, but once out the hope is that students will earn around the same, relative to the course they're doing.
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    (Original post by Tommyjw)
    Better off? ... i dont see how you came to that conclusion.
    Poorer students will still get the same benefits they do now just adjusted to the higher fee's.
    Their talking about giving poorer families 2 years free, so personally I would save 3-6 grand
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    They totally shouldnt give poorer families free tuition as the payment has nothing to do with what money you have available to you and doesn't help anyone go to uni as they may still struggle with maintenance. Instead they should just get bursaries or grants for living expenses.

    Its basically just unfairly throwing money at poor students to get them to go to uni.

    The REALLY unfair part is that it is basically giving the money to the poorer students AFTER the course is finished, as thats when they would have to pay it back!
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    (Original post by miiiiil)
    They totally shouldnt give poorer families free tuition as the payment has nothing to do with what money you have available to you and doesn't help anyone go to uni as they may still struggle with maintenance. Instead they should just get bursaries or grants for living expenses.
    Uh.. wut?
    They still get bursaries and grants and loans...

    The point of the free education is for the POOREST people, that is.. people who earn free school means and below, which are the poorest of the poor. Believe me. I had single mum on judt under full time hours and i didnt even get free school meals
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    I think most people understand the mechanics of how it is all going to work, and for sure you don't have to pay anything up front.

    And yes, the debt is not the same as a credit card debt.

    Despite all this, the idea of having a significant "debt" IS going to put off some people.

    The people it will put off more are the ones for whom the amount of the debt will seem more significant, that is, those from lower and middle income families.

    University attendance is already skewed towards wealthier families. Progress on this front has been made in the past ten years or so, but this UNFAIR change will reverse that progress overnight.

    Most of us on this site are from pretty comfortable backgrounds. I'd like to hear more from those on here who are worried about a $30-40k "debt", whatever the fine print.
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    "F**K FEES" - YEAAAAH BOOOIIIIIIIII and SCHOOL, god ****ing SCHOOL, **** SCHOOL, and HOMEWORK, GAWWWWD ****ing homework, and bedtime, I hate bedtime, ****ING BEDTIME, **** Bedtime.

    Next protest shall bear the slogan: ?"F**K PRICES" - Prices only discourage people from poorer backgrounds from buying food and stuff, therefore all things should be free.... [/Student Protester LOLgic]
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    (Original post by killerhales)
    but this UNFAIR change will reverse that progress overnight.

    Most of us on this site are from pretty comfortable backgrounds. I'd like to hear more from those on here who are worried about a $30-40k "debt", whatever the fine print.
    How is it unfair exactly? It's hardly a vast swathe of the student population who have rich enough parents that they can afford to pay off the fees upfront, so how does it make any difference at all what your background is like?

    You all have no idea how lucky you are, being eligible for a system like this.
    I applied to MIT when I was applying to universities, but got told about the interview at four days notice, with tickets going for £1400 to get there. I also was told at this point that I wasn't eligible for any sort of support, so would have to find $38000 a year ($152000 total) upfront in order to study there.
    If I'd been eligible for a loan as generous as the loans we have in this country though I'd have done it in a second.

    Instead, students here throw an enormous tantrum because they're being asked to essentially pay more in taxes later in life to help fund the cost of their degrees.

    If applicants are too stupid to understand that, and can't comprehend the idea that for any even mildly respectable degree you'll earn enough more than you would without it that getting it is still a worthwhile investment, then they shouldn't be at university in the first place.
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    I think it's a psychological issue more than anything. "Debt" is a scary word. "£27k" is a large number.

    For example: Under the previous system of student finance, I knew someone who took out loans for their degree, but then didn't get a job afterwards (she married into a rich family so she didn't really need to work for money anymore for the rest of her life). As a result, she would never be asked to repay her loan, and it would get written off when she was 65. But despite this, she still paid off the loan anyway - the sole reason being that psychologically, "debt" is not a nice thing to have. Even though in real terms, being in debt made absolutely no difference to her whatsoever because she would never be asked to repay it, she still couldn't deal with "debt".

    Regardless of whether they're actually being asked to pay back money or not, people don't like to be told that they're "in debt", and they imagine a big grey cloud hanging over their head. But why fear a grey cloud if you know that it isn't going to rain?
    This is illustrated in the protests to tuition fee rises. People don't like the idea of being in a low paid job and in £27k debt at the same time, despite the fact that the £27k debt means nothing when they're in a low paid job, as they're not being asked to repay it until they're in a higher paid job. People are afraid to go to university because of "£27k debt" even though financially speaking, they will be better off if they go to university (even if university only adds £1000 per annum to their earning power).

    The impact of debt is not determined by how much you owe, it is determined by how much and how quickly you are being asked to repay.
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    (Original post by miiiiil)
    I am only talking about tuition fees here. It is up to the individual what other commitments they get themselves into. And maintenance is no different than it has been so it is a somewhat irrelevant point here.

    Besides, you only pay in the region of £30-40 a month when you pay back the loan i think. Hardly crippling.
    Quite agree, I think its about £7/week...£364/year out of a £21,000 salary for your higher education: not a bad deal at all.
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    This country has messed up and is facing massive debt, now the government want students who had nothing to do with this debt to pay for it by putting them into debt. Paying for universities and further education has only been a recent development, previously this like healthcare was chosen to be free.

    As said above a lot of people dislike being in debt, it is not something people are comfortable with. Why study and get into massive debt when you can work for several years longer and not face massive debt; over a lifetime a person may earn more but they have the 30 year burden of debt.

    University should be something people aspire to, not something people worry about financially. The real issue seems to be the increase in people attending university. While something needs to be done about this and the level of people doing pointless degrees, everyone should have the opportunity. The fact is an educated population will benefit the country and the government should pay for it.
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    i think a point to considr also is if a bright student from a poor background goes to good university, i am guessing they do so to better their life chances, get a good decently paid job so are not going to be 'poor' for the rest of their lives.

    I don't think these proposals would put off those who wanted to genuinely go, what it will do (and i think rightly so) will make those who just do a degree for the sake of it, it will make people think more carefully about their future plans.
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    Fact is. Never let the facts get in the way of a good argument.
    I think a lot of this is clutching at straws because they don't want to have to pay fees.
    If you do not think you will earn more as a result of university which will more than compensate you for the fees. Here's an idea. Don't go.
    Not going to university has been turned into some sort of dirty sin...
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    (Original post by miiiiil)
    The loans will pay for your tuition, so you pay NOTHING until you are earning enough to pay, unless you choose to that is.

    Besides, even if you do end up with 40k debt its hardly like a credit card debt like everyone likes to make out.

    I do not consider myself to be 20k 'in debt', when in fact I am.

    Sensationalism brings out the moron in everyone who can't be bothered to understand the proposals properly.
    ITS CALLED DEBT
    High fees = Loans = Debt
    Many 'poor' or those from the working class as do the 'sensible' people of this world ABHOR debt
    Nobody wants to get their foot stuck in DEBT
    especially those from the working class many of which have been brought up around relative poverty, fewer resources and repercussions of the credit crunch.
    Therefore it certainly wont stop poorer students from going to uni but it wiil DETER [PREVENT TO SOME EXTENT] them from going to uni.
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    When I started my degree in 2005 it was 1200 a year.. I worked damn hard at uni, and 32 hours a week in a job to pay for mty fees up front.

    I then did a Masters degree starting in 2008 that cost £3000, I increased my work to full time (37hours), and again paid off my fees in full.

    I have NO debt from my education, but in the future people with not have the option to do as I did!
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    (Original post by ammaarahsaid)
    ITS CALLED DEBT
    High fees = Loans = Debt
    Many 'poor' or those from the working class as do the 'sensible' people of this world ABHOR debt
    Nobody wants to get their foot stuck in DEBT
    especially those from the working class many of which have been brought up around relative poverty, fewer resources and repercussions of the credit crunch.
    Therefore it certainly wont stop poorer students from going to uni but it wiil DETER [PREVENT TO SOME EXTENT] them from going to uni.
    I think that poor people who are smart enough to go to University can probably see through this... And understand that they will get higher future earnings... In fact Im almost getting sick of the amount of patronising of poor people this country does. We treat them like they are too stupid to work things like this out...
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    (Original post by ammaarahsaid)
    ITS CALLED DEBT
    High fees = Loans = Debt
    Many 'poor' or those from the working class as do the 'sensible' people of this world ABHOR debt
    Nobody wants to get their foot stuck in DEBT
    especially those from the working class many of which have been brought up around relative poverty, fewer resources and repercussions of the credit crunch.
    Therefore it certainly wont stop poorer students from going to uni but it wiil DETER [PREVENT TO SOME EXTENT] them from going to uni.
    I really don't think your grasping this properly, wether your rich or poor, if your not making £21,000, you dont pay your loans, unlike a credit card debt, where no matter how much your earning, you will be made bankrupt and haveyour stuff taken away by the bailiffs if you cant pay it off, university debts are really not a big deal, £7 a week paying back, when your earning 21,000 a year is really not bad.
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    well it wont prevent them from going it just means that they will have the debt for longer which is probably what will put people off but then on the other side of that, you dont start paying it back until you are earning over a certain amount anyways - all swings and roundabouts!
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    (Original post by Bosch)
    I really don't think your grasping this properly, wether your rich or poor, if your not making £21,000, you dont pay your loans, unlike a credit card debt, where no matter how much your earning, you will be made bankrupt and haveyour stuff taken away by the bailiffs if you cant pay it off, university debts are really not a big deal, £7 a week paying back, when your earning 21,000 a year is really not bad.
    They used to let students pay off amounts voluntarily as well, not sure if they still do that so I spose if you got a job where you were paying it back (ie you were earning enough money) then I spose provided you had few outgoings you could clear your debt quicker by making voluntary payments so once that is clesred or nearly cleared you could sort yourself out to go rent/mortgage?
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    Well the screening for "poor" famalies needs a change. I come from a family with four children. My sister has gone to uni and is now at med school whilst im in second year. I don't qualify for any extra money from the government but i dont get much from my parents either. Just because you didn't qualify to being "poor" doesn't mean you don't struggle with money. I have had a £10 to last me 3 weeks... I can't just go and ask my parents for more money when i need it because they simply cant afford it.

    Meanwhile there are tonnes of people gettin bursaries with parents that have broken up. One of which is rich and spoils them but they supposedly live with the poor parent so get the full funding. It's a joke.
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    (Original post by b33tlejuice)
    They used to let students pay off amounts voluntarily as well, not sure if they still do that so I spose if you got a job where you were paying it back (ie you were earning enough money) then I spose provided you had few outgoings you could clear your debt quicker by making voluntary payments so once that is clesred or nearly cleared you could sort yourself out to go rent/mortgage?
    Yea you still can, so if somebodys earning 50,000, they could pay it back a lot quicker
 
 
 
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