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March of Resistance to Education & Public Sector Cuts Announced: 20 December, London Watch

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    (Original post by W.H.T)
    anyone seen the film 'battle royale'?

    anyone think that it offers an insight into what the government could do to if there are further unrests amongst students here? :eek3:
    Now that would be a reason to destroy everything!
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    (Original post by yawn)
    I overlooked the fact that it is the difference between earning of £21k and £35 at 9%, not the whole of the upper earning...unlike NI conts which is an all or nothing basis, ie you pay 11% on entire earnings if they are above the lower earnings limit.

    This is a comment from Moneymarket.com:

    Yet for everyone else, the majority, those with starting salaries of £20-£30k and 5% annual pay rises, the policy is a 30 year graduate tax (at a very punitive rate) on all earnings above £21k and they are likely, due to the real rate of interest and no facility for overpayment, to repay the true cost of their borrowing many times over.

    Any thoughts?
    I calculated how much somebody would pay

    Starting wage £30k, wage increase of 5% each year (ending on £123,484.10 after 30 years): Total maximum £122,685

    Say the average debt is £37k they'd reach that £37k by 17 years. I can't be bothered to work out how much interest they'd pay but there's no way it'd get up to them paying £122,685. They'd probably have it all paid off by 20 years.

    Starting wage £20k, wage increase of 5% each year (so ending on £82,323 after 30 years): Total max payment £62,980

    They'd reach £37k in 25 years. Add a few years paying interest but they're not going to pay much more than the loan.

    Nobody will repay their debt many times over!


    Though I still don't see how your argument that this is bad for poor people stands? The examples we're looking at are now pretty rich :P

    Sorry I took so long to reply but Excel was being annoying.

    edit: just had another look at the Browne report and it says 'The payment threshold is reviewed regularly to bring it into line with growth in earnings'. therefore it's likely that people like the ones I've calculated will pay less than that as the limit rises from £21K.
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    (Original post by yawn)
    There is absolutely no assurety that someone who was considering going to university rather than seeking work with good A-levels will still want to go and encumber themselves with a debt of £40k.
    They'd be an idiot not to. Why do A-Levels if you're not going to go to uni? They're essentially worthless qualifications in the real world.

    The point is though Vlad, that their income will not only be subject to income tax, but also another tax in effect for repayment of that which they wouldn't have incurred if they hadn't gone to university.
    Is this not the current situation? I have to pay 9% on every £1 I earn over £15000. Sound familiar?

    How can their degree be an 'investment' for the future when they are not going to be any better off in terms of income if one takes into account the costs of the life-time debt and deducts it from any higher life-time earnings...especially since they will have lost out on earnings that they could have received if they had gone into full-time work rather than university?

    I remain unconvinced, and I cannot try to convince others of that which I cannot see myself. I would be misleading them.
    Then they should be studying for a degree in a field that's going to earn them better money. These figures that are batted around about average earnings take into account those that do "low value" degrees that generally don't lead to a high paying career. Shrewd, sensible people whose concern is for a good, well paid job that they're going to enjoy will benefit greatly from a degree. That's a good investment.
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    (Original post by yawn)
    You really believe that a gross income of £35k is enough money to raise a family and buy a home as well are repaying a student loan of say £40,000?

    You obviously have absolutely no idea of how to exist and do all that you would want to do with a family on a residual income of say £17,000 after deducting NI conts. of 10% of £35,000; tax at 20% on £30,000 and student loan repayments of say, £2,5000.

    It's the residuals that count, not the max's.
    you wouldn't have student loan repayments of £2500 on a salary of £35000, you'd have student loan repayments of £1260.

    And yes, it might be slightly difficult (although let's be honest, not that hard) to raise a family on £35000 a year, but that level of loan repayment assumes only one member of the family working, which should very rarely be the case.
    You are aware though surely that £35k is around the average household income in the UK?

    (Original post by yawn)
    And how much would the repayment be if your income is in excess of £60K a year? £450 a month? After all, most go to university with the idea of providing an investment for the future in terms of earning potential.
    If you earn £60,000 a year, you will pay £3690 per year, a little over £300 per month.
    Which if you're earning that kind of salary, frankly you can afford.

    What you're essentially trying to argue here is that university should be paid for by those who haven't had the benefit of a university education, rather than being paid for solely by those who have had that benefit. What possible reason (aside from narrow, selfish self-interest) could there be for enacting such a system?
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    (Original post by robinson999)
    so your ok with paying that back, on top of paying a high tax rate as well, at £60,000 your in the 40% band

    so your ok that now if your earning a lot because you went to uni not only do you pay back more towards your loan, but you pay a high tax rate as well?

    how is that fair, how is it fair that now you get taxed twice for going to uni
    What, you mean how fair is it to be asked to pay for my own education?
    With extraordinarily generous loan terms and automatic debt relief after 30 years?

    The only thing not fair about it is the extra tax it will impose on the general public due to students who fail to pay their full loan back.
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    To go or not to go?
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    (Original post by BambieWambie)
    To go or not to go?
    You should go, protests are quite exciting. The adrenaline, the noise, the unity.
    Also they are a great way to pull. What you gotta do is hope that everyone gets kettled for ages. Then when everyone is hungry, you whip out some food. Everyone will love you.
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    (Original post by Lewroll)
    You should go, protests are quite exciting. The adrenaline, the noise, the unity.
    Also they are a great way to pull. What you gotta do is hope that everyone gets kettled for ages. Then when everyone is hungry, you whip out some food. Everyone will love you.
    Hmm, maybe. As long as the po po don't "accidently" batter me
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    (Original post by W.H.T)
    anyone seen the film 'battle royale'?

    anyone think that it offers an insight into what the government could do to if there are further unrests amongst students here? :eek3:
    Shotgun the rocket launcher (does that sound right?)
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    (Original post by BambieWambie)
    Hmm, maybe. As long as the po po don't "accidently" batter me
    Don't worry, i'll protect you :sexface:, also if you live in London you might as well drop by.
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      (Original post by ily_em)

      You have to be really poor to get free school dinners. My household income is ~£11,000 and I don't even qualify. Just pointing out that it's not just 'middle income' people who have to pay more, other 'poor' people do too.
      Oops...missed this first time around.

      To qualify for free schools meals, the household income must be less than £16,000, not £11,000.

      You will qualify for free school meals if you or your partner are receiving:

      * Income Support (IS)
      * Income Based Job Seekers Allowance (JSA(IB))
      * Employment and Support Allowance (Income Related) (ESA (IR))
      * Child Tax Credit (CTC), provided you do not also receive Working Tax Credit and have an annual income, as assessed by the Inland Revenue, that does not exceed £16,190
      * Guarantee Credit element of State Pension Credit
      * Support under Part 6 of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999
      You also say in a later post that your parents income combined is £35,000...I'm confused.

      I'm basing it on experience here: my parents' combined income is £35k and we have two houses (because they are divorced now).
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      (Original post by Lewroll)
      Don't worry, i'll protect you :sexface:, also if you live in London you might as well drop by.
      Lol thanks, you're so kind
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      (Original post by yawn)
      Oops...missed this first time around.

      To qualify for free schools meals, the household income must be less than £16,000, not £11,000.



      You also say in a later post that your parents income combined is £35,000...I'm confused.
      They lived together until we were 13; I was using it to show that you can live on 35k. Now it's just my mum and we survive on her income. I'm not sure if we qualified for the other stuff though for free school meals :erm:
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        (Original post by ily_em)
        They lived together until we were 13; I was using it to show that you can live on 35k.
        Look, I don't want to take advantage in this particular debate by discussing your mother and father's personal income details so we'll leave that here.

        Now it's just my mum and we survive on her income. I'm not sure if we qualified for the other stuff though for free school meals :erm:

        Obviously, from the information I've provided, you would be entitled to FSM and EMA, which the coaltition is also abandoning. So much for the help given to the poorest families. :rolleyes:
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        (Original post by yawn)
        Look, I don't want to take advantage in this particular debate by discussing your mother and father's personal income details so we'll leave that here.




        Obviously, from the information I've provided, you would be entitled to FSM and EMA, which the coaltition is also abandoning. So much for the help given to the poorest families. :rolleyes:
        Aren't they replacing EMA with anything else? eg some kind of travel thing?

        I'm annoyed about missing out on free school meals now
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        (Original post by twl)
        That costs money. It's also affected by the snow - particularly if you live in the north. I want protest but don't waste time with little protests.

        Organise one for the New Year when everyone will be able to make it.

        GFS 850hpa
        http://www.wetterzentrale.de/topkarten/

        There are already over 13'000 people invited and 40 Student Unions contacted and 2 Trade Unions involved. Public Sector workers are going to join us, so we expect this march to be pretty damn big!
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        There is a fine line between determination and obstinacy.
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        (Original post by the_13th)
        There are already over 13'000 people invited and 40 Student Unions contacted and 2 Trade Unions involved. Public Sector workers are going to join us, so we expect this march to be pretty damn big!
        I still think there could be heavy snow around the 18th Dec. On the positive side those who make it in might be able to throw snowballs...
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          (Original post by ily_em)
          Aren't they replacing EMA with anything else? eg some kind of travel thing?

          I'm annoyed about missing out on free school meals now
          EMA is not being substituted by anything new, as far as I'm aware.

          The Pupil Premium is money already accounted for in schools' budgets that is supposed to be allocated for the benefit of each child that qualifies in both primary and secondary schools. However, although the money will follow the child, it doesn't have to be used for that particular child, much in the same way as extra funding for statemented children with Special Needs doesn't have to be allocated to that particular child.
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          I will be at the resistance

          REVOLUTION!
         
         
         
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