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    (Original post by spazman21)
    So, you proved my point? You're hung up about something that happened 100's of years ago...

    And that article you posted proved my original point... that there was little "original provocation" on the West's part.


    But, above all, I'm a pacifist. I don't condone violent retaliation of any kind. However, I certainly don't acquisce are lacklustre, ignorant, sensationalist arguments.


    Edit: By the way the Ottoman Empire wasn't solely made up of Muslims. So, don't think about playing that card.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...Ottoman_Empire
    The Ottoman Empire was messed up as it was... The ruling elite made sure to incite hated between the Christians and the Muslims, they made sure that these two groups would fight each other, this way the people (those who are ruled) would be distracted from the real problem (the rulers) and you know not revolt. (admittedly i don't have the evidence of this because you can only trust historians to an extent)
    It's quite a common technique to to be honest, make two groups fight, or make a group a target so that the civilians would attack them and not the ruling elite, Russia did it with its pogroms, and if I'm right (haven't read up on it recently) the right wing nationalist in America are using/used the same technique for the recent vote that happened/happening (but if i carry on with this I'll probably go off topic)
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I think when it comes to terrorism, there's big question mark over what is terrorism, dictionary definitions don't do justice to words such as these (heck dictionary definition of justice isn't enough as well.)

    For instance what is terrorism? While we see it as terrorism do other people see the act as terrorism? (because hey i don't know the answers)

    The two terms that have changed throughout the course of history are Terrorist and Freedom Fighters. Those who have never experienced peace and those who have experienced war have different values.

    While we may see them as terrorist, know that they may see us as terrorist as well.

    And perhaps the attacks could be fall under "Emergent Copy Cat behavior", I don't know perhaps.
    I have a bit more to say but i have coursework to do.
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    (Original post by Mad Vlad)
    Again, a reminder to people; keep it civil please. The atmosphere in this thread is already heating up - there's no need for it to boil over into a shouting match, when we can debate this topic in a calm manner.
    Since it seems like everyone's harsh to you. I think i should say this you're a YAA
    You
    Are
    Awesome

    Just to make your day better.
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    (Original post by 9a3iqa)
    You do know that if the West leaves those countries alone terrorism will die don't you? After all there will be no justification to attack innocents.
    Your under the impression terrorists need justification.
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    Oh please, extremists will always find a reason to attack the infidel West.
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    (Original post by 9a3iqa)
    The Afghan president is a joke and is not even democratically elected (not truly). When terrorists blow their own cities up, its normally because they are trying to kill some soldiers who have been killing their people. Who are these some people? You mean corrupt dictators who are not representative of their people?

    If you do not know what you are talking about there is no point in arguing in the first place my little friend.
    Blow up soldiers? Same thing could be said to NATo, they trying to kill terrorists and accidently hit civilians, so its ok for your people to kill civilians, but not for NATO?
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    (Original post by 9a3iqa)
    You do know that if the West leaves those countries alone terrorism will die don't you? After all there will be no justification to attack innocents.
    Yeah I guess it's the west to blame for regimes like the Taliban bombing and gassing girls schools and executing people at will for not following their radical version of Islam & Sharia. Totally the fault of the west.

    And if anything Wikileaks showed us that the US actually has shown a lot of restraint regarding the Middle East in fact it's several of your cherished Middle Eastern countries calling for the US to take action. Also Wikileaks showed that chemical weapons were found in Iraq (under definition these are WMDs). The only thng Wikileaks has done is make Israel/US look slightly less like the irrepressible war machine complete idiots like you want people to believe they are.

    I'm not even going to touch on the crap you said about slaughtering civilians rofl. Funny how you talk about ignorance... ugh can't be bothered. Anyone who upvoted your original post is a severely misinformed retarded sheep.

    even gave Palestine (formerly Arab Muslim) to the Jews!
    :rofl:

    "Palestine people" are practically the newest on Earth. In fact most of them were originally Jordanians (another relatively new state) and became "Palestinian" over night. Palestine has zero meaningful history. Jews and Israelis have links to "The Land of Israel" which predate Islam itself. The most indigenous people of the Levant region were Canaanites and Philistines none of which have anything to do with Arabs. The Arabs came as invaders from the Arabian peninsula.

    Regarding the term Philistine. The Philistines or "Sea People" were originally from in and around Greece and settled in the south of the Levant region and were known as the biggest enemies of Israelis. When the Romans came and took over as a result of Jews revolting against oppression Emperor Hadrian wanted Israel/Judah to be completely obliterated from history so he renamed the area "Philistinae" which was a latinized version of Philistine. He used that name because of how hateful Jews found it to be. Canaanites were their own people (no longer exist) who were eventually invaded and conquered by Arab invaders.

    Also don't talk about the Ottoman Empire/Crusades. The crusades were partly a response to Muslim INVASIONS and like any other empire the Ottoman was built on invading and killing others. It is true that for a while other religions were tolerated under Ottoman rule (in Spain) but they were classified as second class citizens. They are not the only example of a "tolerable" empire. Under certain Byzantium rule Jews were made equal citizens. Also the British mandate handed Jews back their homeland which was taken by Arab INVADERS. Making out like Arabs have always been a force of good being butchered by the evil West/Jews. Holy ****.

    Even Iran was once a beacon for human rights and budding civilization until the Arab crusades and revolution were they forced Islam upon everyone and silenced protesters with death. The whole region is a cesspit. If it's not the West and collateral damage it would be corrupt and extremist regimes. Stop kidding yourself. You are beyond ****ing deluded.
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    (Original post by 9a3iqa)
    The effects are still being felt today so you can't just dismiss it as "something that happened hundreds of years ago", an example is that it was European powers who split up the Ottoman empire (an Islamic empire, even though there were Christians and Jews living in it) into many countries and the European powers were the ones who drew the borders.

    And besides, the Americans and British have slaughtered thousands upon thousands of innocent civilians. So if you are a pacifist how can you support them? Answer: You are not a pacifist.

    But, how can you hold the current generation responsible for that?
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    (Original post by Margaret Thatcher)
    Oh please, extremists will always find a reason to attack the infidel West.
    This is what The Sun and the Daily Mail want you to believe. Mysteriously they never provide the evidence.
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    (Original post by adam_zed)
    Usually dislike lowkey but this and the song terrorist I rate. nice alternate perspective on things.
    Look at the fifth 'suspect' (second row).

    :innocent:
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    (Original post by 9a3iqa)
    The Afghan president is a joke and is not even democratically elected (not truly). When terrorists blow their own cities up, its normally because they are trying to kill some soldiers who have been killing their people. Who are these some people? You mean corrupt dictators who are not representative of their people?

    If you do not know what you are talking about there is no point in arguing in the first place my little friend.
    In Iraq most terrorists are Sunni's targeting Shia Muslims or Vise Versa. This has nothing to do with the west.
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    (Original post by Broderss)
    you know muslim terrorists kill more muslims than they do westerners and more muslims than our forces, right?
    That has nothing to do with us. Our British soldiers should not be risking their lives to save the countries which can't even protect its own citizens.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    In Iraq most terrorists are Sunni's targeting Shia Muslims or Vise Versa. This has nothing to do with the west.
    the US stirred it all..so they can blame it on them..as they always do.
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    I totally agree, I mean it would never work, but I agree so much.
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    (Original post by MishMash1)
    the US stirred it all..so they can blame it on them..as they always do.
    es because they are going to stir up terrorism in a country they have put trillions into rebuilding
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    es because they are going to stir up terrorism in a country they have put trillions into rebuilding
    trillions into building...after damaging them in the first place, and killing over 300,000 innocent lives. trillions wouldn't compensate for the 300k dead!

    and anyway when was it trillions? and even if you are right about the trillions, were did they get the money from? oil money from Iraq?
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    (Original post by MishMash1)
    trillions into building...after damaging them in the first place, and killing over 300,000 innocent lives. trillions wouldn't compensate for the 300k dead!

    and anyway when was it trillions? and even if you are right about the trillions, were did they get the money from? oil money from Iraq?
    Source? How do you know they are all innocent, how many of those were killed by terrorists and how many were deliberate targets of terrorism by other Muslims as I pointed out.

    US companies have been given very few oil contracts and in a few cases have been barred from bidding for contracts. Most went to Chinese and French companies
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    OP be seeking the Nobel Peace Prize, me thinks?
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    (Original post by sandys1000)
    It might reduce terrorism, but it wouldn't be stopped. Some people object to the very existence of western society and will always seek to destroy it.
    Perhaps the odd pyscho very rarely, but those are the idiots who'll never manage to kill anyone but themselves in a failed terror plot. The vast majority are political, and these feelings against western society wouldn't exist had we kept ourselves to ourselves.
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    (Original post by 9a3iqa)
    Is to stop terrorising people! The ignorance on TSR and western society in general is appaling.

    I hope you people know that the Americans have been playing boss in the Middle East for the past two decaded. They have even been installing military bases in most Middle Eastern countries through intimidation and threats. History did not start from 9/11! The people in the Middle East are sick of being invaded and opressed by European powers. As I am sure Europeans and Americans would be if another people invaded and terrorised them. Also when American invaded Iraq and Afghanistan they slaughtered hundreds of thousands of innocent people and ruined the lives of millions. So who is the real terrorist now? 3000 people died on 9/11 and 50 died in 7/7. More than 300,000 died in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yet you people call the Muslims terrorists?

    Hasn't Wikileaks taught you a thing or two about the "honesty" of your governments? Yet you continue to put your trust in them? Hasn't Wikileaks taught you just how much free speech really is valued in the West?

    Why would people risk their lives to fight and kill modern armies. If you stopped killing them and stealing from them people would leave you alone you know! There is only one way to end terrorism. STOP INVADING OTHER COUNTRIES, KILLING THEIR PEOPLE AND STEALING THEIR RESOURCES.

    p.s, Moderators, if you close my thread just because of my opinion then you truly are spineless cowards.
    Nice fanatical rhetoric that, shame it has no credibility :o: . Where is your evidence for this forcing of military bases in the Middle-East? Plus last I checked it was Iraq that tried invading Kuwait in the 90's...That's Arab on Arab warfare, so not sure how you think the US has been trying to have it's way in the ME for the past two decades.
    History didn't start with 9/11, but the US didn't have an army in the ME, nor was at war with any ME country until 9/11, so stop acting as if it was provoked you psychopath.
    Any credible sources for your slaughtering or are you omniscient and we just have to take your word as fact? :rolleyes:
    People risk their lives because they have nothing better to fight for. They can either starve or be paid to fight. Guess which choice they take? Plus if you knew anything about the actual political state of Afghanistan you'd know that the Taliban are not seen as the good guys by anyone.
    As for Iraq, you have Arab on Arab fighting so I think that the conflict there is to do with religious tension rather than anything to do with the US. Unless y'know they think blowing up some average Iraqi civilian is somehow going to affect the US army....

    How about you actually do some research into what you are saying instead of listening to bias fanatical pig ****?
    (Original post by ajtiesto)
    Best post ever imo. Very well said.

    I don't blame the terrorists for all the attacks that taken place across the world, I blame the Western and Muslim puppet governments. Governements such as the the Saudi's and the DOG that is Mohamed Hosni Mubarak of Egypt. But they're all up the West's ass all time supporting the choas and destruction of Iraq, Afganistan and Palestine.
    OH yeah forgot that Iraq and Afghanistan were completely civilised crime-free countries until the West arrived....:rolleyes:
 
 
 
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