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Do you agree with the scrapping of EMA? Poll Watch

  • View Poll Results: Are you pleased that EMA has been scrapped?
    Yes, it wasn't fair on the middle classes and was used innapropriately!
    41.03%
    Yes, we can no longer afford it!
    14.81%
    I am indifferent
    4.27%
    No, we can still afford it!
    2.28%
    No, poorer students relied upon it and it encouraged social mobility!
    37.61%

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    (Original post by kbountra)
    How difficult is it for someone to work 4-6 hours a week to make up the shortfall of £20-£30 a week they were getting from the government? I don't benefit from EMA but I still pay my own way- what possible costs are there for someone to stay in education? Bus fare/stationary is all I can think of.
    People seem to be forgetting that there are very few jobs around at the moment.
    Most of the people I knew at sixth form who had a job only had it because a member of their family worked somewhere, and they managed to get them a job.

    And as I said:
    Travel costs (which can easily take up most of a persons EMA payments anyway)
    Stationary
    Books
    Field / school trips
    University open days / interviews
    etc.
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    (Original post by .Ali.)
    You can get second hand books cheap of ebay, amazon, borrow them from the library. You don't have to get them new.
    What about new editions?
    Books get updated, revised and scrapped for newer ones, you can't get these new ones off ebay/amazon.

    (Original post by .Ali.)
    You can get pens and a refill pad for like £1.
    True.

    (Original post by .Ali.)
    I agree with that point, but it's not every week you go on those. I've been on two trips since starting in September, both were free. As long as they give you adequate warning in advance, anyone can scrape together £10 once in a blue moon.
    What about trips which cost more than £100?

    (Original post by .Ali.)
    Yeah that's a valid point, but I know plenty who do that really don't deserve it. For example, a guy I know: his father is a multimillionaire, he owns several pubs and a brewerey (sp?). However, he lives with his mother who makes £20,000 a year...he gets EMA (I think he gets £20 or £30 a week), despite an allowance from his father, and child maintenance from his father. Abuse of the system? I think so.
    That only proves that the system needed fixing, not scrapping.

    (Original post by .Ali.)
    Also, why can't they get a part time job if they want spending money? That'd be much better than relying on other people's money.
    It's not other people's money, their parents have been paying taxes for god knows how long, getting £400 a year for two years isn't asking for much is it?

    The point in EMA was to stop poorer kids being at a disadvantage, while their slugging it out in a job, richer kids can happily sit at home, revising, doing further reading or just completing their homework.
    Education is supposed to be fair, you're only supposed to work if you want to (while in education).

    Also, 9-5+ everyday at college is pretty much a job, isn't it?
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    (Original post by Aspiringlawstudent)
    The point of the five options is to gauge attitudes as well as opinions; I was curious to see if people objected to/supported EMA based purely on affordability or if they had other reasons for supporting/disliking it.

    I included indifference because it seems some people like to vote on polls even when they have no opinion. I don't understand it either. :rolleyes:
    A Yes and No would be sufficient and reasons could have been posted.
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    I'll give you the points about books and stationary. Though the costs still add up. And just because they are on ebay, doesn't always make them cheap.

    As for open days, they may not be. But they can still be very expensive (long train journeys and a possible hotel room have to be factored in for some people). I probably spend around £150 on trains going to open days and interviews for uni.

    And as with the other thread about benefits, you cannot punish people who genuinly need it because a few abuse the system. Of course that person you know shouldn't get it. But that doesn't devalue its need for other students who get it.
    Yes they do, but they're 'one offs'. They don't need a regular payment for books.

    That can be costly, but that's why I say people should be responsible with their finances. I do understand that it's not good saying that once it's happened, however.

    That's why I favour a transport pass system. Everyone could get to sixth form/college, no one would absue the money as you can't really abuse a transport pass, no one would get it without deserving it (I'm proposing we all get transport passes, either free or 50% paid for), and it wouldn't punish the ones who need it.
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    I think that they shouldn't scrap EMA because there are some people who really need it. For example I get it and once I got into 6th form my parents stopped paying for anything for me except for the house and bills so I needed EMA for food, books and mandatory school trips and I still have a part-time job to pay for everything else. Although I do know people who abuse it, so instead (if they do scrap it) there should be a more comprehensive type of means testing for it that looks at not just the family wage.

    Also just wanted to point out that not everyone on EMA gets £30 per week as it can range from £30- £10.
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    I was one of the ones that did get EMA, I admit I did spend some of it on myself, but the majority went on travel or food. Before anyone says I should have got a job, I was working all weekend for my dad, howeer didn't get paid. He owns a pet shop/mini zoo and it was a new business and he couldn't afford to pay staff so we as a family helped out for nothing.
    We are by no means middle class just because my dad owns his own business, sometimes my mom can barely afford to pay the bills. If I hadn't been working for my dad I would have gone out and got a job to support myself.
    Personally I think the EMA system is flawed and should be scrapped or changed so that those who really need it still gain, for example vouchers for food and books, or travel passes for all.
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    I voted yes, but I agree that we need a system that still provides services for the poorest. I think travel vouchers, book tokens and that sort of thing, payed for by the government would be far better as the likelihood of abusing the system is decreased.

    Removing EMA and providing no viable, workable alternative is not acceptable.

    And no, I didn't receive EMA either
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    (Original post by SatanIsAwesome)
    What about new editions?
    Books get updated, revised and scrapped for newer ones, you can't get these new ones off ebay/amazon.
    That's a one off payment. If you know your child is going to need things, start saving. Also, maybe use the child benefit? At my sixth form we've never been made to buy books, we've been told books we CAN buy if we want, but usually we get handouts and sheets with all the info we need on, or our tutor takes them out of the library and gives them to us.



    What about trips which cost more than £100?
    That's too bad then. There was a trip at my school costing £5,000, and another costing £3,000. Not everyone could go. This was during years 9 and 11, so no one had EMA. That's just how it is.


    That only proves that the system needed fixing, not scrapping.
    See my transport reforms.

    It's not other people's money, their parents have been paying taxes for god knows how long, getting £400 a year for two years isn't asking for much is it?
    If you earn below 10 grand (I think it's 10?) you don't pay tax. Also, my father pays a lot more tax than someone who gets EMA's parents do. So they're living off of the taxpayer.

    The point in EMA was to stop poorer kids being at a disadvantage, while their slugging it out in a job, richer kids can happily sit at home, revising, doing further reading or just completing their homework.
    Education is supposed to be fair, you're only supposed to work if you want to (while in education).
    Life isn't 'fair'. Also, it depends on what constitutes to fairness. I could just as easily argue that it isn't fair that my families taxes pay for some idiots to spend £30 a week on alcohol and drugs.


    Also, 9-5+ everyday at college is pretty much a job, isn't it?
    But A Levels/BTECs aren't full days. I do 3 AS levels, and I have two half days off a week, and two four hour study periods. If it is a job, where's my salary then?
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    People seem to be forgetting that there are very few jobs around at the moment.
    Most of the people I knew at sixth form who had a job only had it because a member of their family worked somewhere, and they managed to get them a job.

    And as I said:
    Travel costs (which can easily take up most of a persons EMA payments anyway)
    Stationary
    Books
    Field / school trips
    University open days / interviews
    etc.
    Travel costs- agreed that they are the primary cost
    Stationary- minimal as textbooks are free to borrow for the year
    Books- what's wrong with the library?
    Trips- rare and generally optional in sixth form
    Open days/interviews- went to all mine by car but I agree this could be a problem if going far.

    I can't see the difficulty in getting a part-time job- hotels, restaurants, book shops, supermarkets, cinemas are always looking for students to work at weekends/holidays.
    May be difficult for someone in Wales though....
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    I dont think it should be scrapped. I get 30 quid, and my sister will be going to college in 2012..I feel really sorry for her, and if i wasnt still going to be a student myself i'd help her out.

    Personally EMA has helped me a lot in my own development that my parents couldnt provide me with financially. Having my own money helped me to learn to budget, and I would pay for my dance lessons. Since my mum lost her job through getting redundant, we only have my dads small wage, and I would have had to stop dancing, which is something both me and my sister love.
    By me paying for dance lessons its enabled my parents to be able to pay for my sister to carry on going aswell.

    Universities want people with hobbies, to be well rounded, to be academic aswell. But with my family, who cant afford for that kind of thing, paying for dance exams, paying for costumes and shows, ema has really helped out for me to carry on doing what I love, instead of being a boring sit at home person with no hobbies.

    Also, ive been saving up money for driving lessons, something else my parents havent been able to help me with.
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    (Original post by .Ali.)
    Yes they do, but they're 'one offs'. They don't need a regular payment for books.

    That can be costly, but that's why I say people should be responsible with their finances. I do understand that it's not good saying that once it's happened, however.

    That's why I favour a transport pass system. Everyone could get to sixth form/college, no one would absue the money as you can't really abuse a transport pass, no one would get it without deserving it (I'm proposing we all get transport passes, either free or 50% paid for), and it wouldn't punish the ones who need it.
    Transport passes can be abused. My brother abused mine, and now I'm having to pay full price travel in London, using my EMA.

    My National insurance card arrived a year late because the foster care system has issues, and if I hadn't had EMA I wouldn't have been able to get schoolbooks because I wouldn't have been able to get a job anyway. The people who abuse it should have it cut, I agree. But if you need it you should be given it. The system needs to be more targeted as opposed to fully scrapped.
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    I think that EMA should be kept. i know a lot of people dont use it ofr waht it is intended for but when i was at college i knew someone who couldnt get into college unless she had her EMA. if there wasnt any then people like her would be prevented from going to college.
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    (Original post by .Ali.)
    That's a one off payment. If you know your child is going to need things, start saving. Also, maybe use the child benefit? At my sixth form we've never been made to buy books, we've been told books we CAN buy if we want, but usually we get handouts and sheets with all the info we need on, or our tutor takes them out of the library and gives them to us.
    You can't use your experience with one college to back your point.
    Every college is different.
    Some people can't afford to put money aside...

    (Original post by .Ali.)
    That's too bad then. There was a trip at my school costing £5,000, and another costing £3,000. Not everyone could go. This was during years 9 and 11, so no one had EMA. That's just how it is.
    Those trips weren't relevant to a course were they?

    (Original post by .Ali.)
    If you earn below 10 grand (I think it's 10?) you don't pay tax.
    Who earns below £10 grand a year?

    (Original post by .Ali.)
    Also, my father pays a lot more tax than someone who gets EMA's parents do. So they're living off of the taxpayer.
    He pays the same amount propotionately, other students shouldn't be at a disadvantage because their parents don't have good jobs.

    I believe everyone should get £10 a week tbf.

    (Original post by .Ali.)
    Life isn't 'fair'. Also, it depends on what constitutes to fairness. I could just as easily argue that it isn't fair that my families taxes pay for some idiots to spend £30 a week on alcohol and drugs.
    Life isn't fair, but government funded education should be.
    I don't know a single person who spends their EMA on alcohol and drugs, no wait, I know one, and that's only because they got £30 a week and therefore had £15 left over to spend.
    Those people who get £10 don't spend it on alcohol/drugs.

    (Original post by .Ali.)
    But A Levels/BTECs aren't full days. I do 3 AS levels, and I have two half days off a week, and two four hour study periods. If it is a job, where's my salary then?
    Lucky you then, in my old college I went in everyday and my shortest day was 10-4. The other days were 9-5....
    Your salary would be £10 a week, if everyone got it, which I believe they should.
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    (Original post by Ammelia)
    Transport passes can be abused. My brother abused mine, and now I'm having to pay full price travel in London, using my EMA.

    My National insurance card arrived a year late because the foster care system has issues, and if I hadn't had EMA I wouldn't have been able to get schoolbooks because I wouldn't have been able to get a job anyway. The people who abuse it should have it cut, I agree. But if you need it you should be given it. The system needs to be more targeted as opposed to fully scrapped.
    How can you abuse a transport pass? :s Where I live, we get them termly, and we can use them whenever we want, even at weekends, as often as we want, between A and B (it's specified on the pass).

    I see what you're saying, but there has to be better ways of helping people that throwing money at teenagers.
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    I don't agree with it being scrapped. I would have struggled through college if I hadn't been receiving £30 a week. It helped me pay for transport to and from college, textbooks that I was told to buy, pens, paper, folders and study trips. But then I look at people like my sister who spend all their EMA on sweets and chocolates and think maybe it's not such a bad idea it's being scrapped.
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    (Original post by SatanIsAwesome)
    You can't use your experience with one college to back your point.
    Every college is different.
    Some people can't afford to put money aside...
    Fair enough, a lot of places do do things differently. I'm sure if you have a child in year 11, you can put £5 per month away at least, so you have £60 by the time they're in year 12 to buy them some books. People need to plan ahead.


    Those trips weren't relevant to a course were they?
    Fair point, no they weren't.



    Who earns below £10 grand a year?
    There's a girl I know who's mother is a single parent of two girls on £9k a year. She can't be the only one.


    He pays the same amount propotionately, other students shouldn't be at a disadvantage because their parents don't have good jobs.
    What? No, he doesn't. He pays 40%. Other people (EMA people, because you have to earn over £44k per annum to pay that rate) pay 20%.


    I believe everyone should get £10 a week tbf.
    That could work, but I still don't feel throwing money at teenagers is the best way to deal with things.

    Life isn't fair, but government funded education should be.
    I don't know a single person who spends their EMA on alcohol and drugs, no wait, I know one, and that's only because they got £30 a week and therefore had £15 left over to spend.
    Those people who get £10 don't spend it on alcohol/drugs.
    They're getting an education, that's pretty fair. I can understand them spending it recreationally sometimes, but having £15 left over every week is ridiculous.


    Lucky you then, in my old college I went in everyday and my shortest day was 10-4. The other days were 9-5....
    Your salary would be £10 a week, if everyone got it, which I believe they should.
    And you didn't have study periods within those?
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    (Original post by kbountra)
    Travel costs- agreed that they are the primary cost
    Stationary- minimal as textbooks are free to borrow for the year
    Books- what's wrong with the library?
    Trips- rare and generally optional in sixth form
    Open days/interviews- went to all mine by car but I agree this could be a problem if going far.

    I can't see the difficulty in getting a part-time job- hotels, restaurants, book shops, supermarkets, cinemas are always looking for students to work at weekends/holidays.
    May be difficult for someone in Wales though....
    Stationary - not all schools provide them for free
    Books - depends where you live. Not all libaries are that great in terms of what they have.
    Trips - may be optional but are often beneficial to the person study. Would be a shame if someone missed out because of the cost.
    Open days - lucky you, not all of us have a car.

    As for a job, if you live in a city then great. But if you don't, then you don't get any of those oppurtunities you mentioned. As for supermarkets, for whatever reason the local supermarkets wouldn't employ people if they went to the local school.

    (Original post by .Ali.)
    That's a one off payment. If you know your child is going to need things, start saving. Also, maybe use the child benefit? At my sixth form we've never been made to buy books, we've been told books we CAN buy if we want, but usually we get handouts and sheets with all the info we need on, or our tutor takes them out of the library and gives them to us.
    Once again, not everyone can afford to save. Those on lower incomes (especially those whos kids get the full £30 a week) generally can't afford to save.
    And thats at your school. Not all schools are like that (especially ones in deprived areas which generally have less money).

    (Original post by .Ali.)
    That's too bad then. There was a trip at my school costing £5,000, and another costing £3,000. Not everyone could go. This was during years 9 and 11, so no one had EMA. That's just how it is.
    I somehow doubt they were that relevent to the course. When I talk about trips, I mean history trips to local areas, geography field trips etc.

    (Original post by .Ali.)
    But A Levels/BTECs aren't full days. I do 3 AS levels, and I have two half days off a week, and two four hour study periods. If it is a job, where's my salary then?
    Again, thats your school.
    At my school, I did 4 A levels and was pretty much busy all week. If you had free lessons, our school said we had to spend 5 of them a week in the library doing work. So once that is taken into account, I probably have around 3 hours a week free in school time (8.40 - 3.20). And some college days are even longer.
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)


    Once again, not everyone can afford to save. Those on lower incomes (especially those whos kids get the full £30 a week) generally can't afford to save.
    And thats at your school. Not all schools are like that (especially ones in deprived areas which generally have less money).
    I'm sure they can find some money from somewhere. Don't people start saving as soon as they start earning, like before they have children to make sure they can afford it?

    I guess not, but it can't be hard to go to your local library, or college/school library, take out a book, photocopy relevant bits, and there you go.



    I somehow doubt they were that relevent to the course. When I talk about trips, I mean history trips to local areas, geography field trips etc.
    Fair enough, they weren't. One was skiing, and one was helping underprivellaged kids in Africa.

    Again, thats your school.
    At my school, I did 4 A levels and was pretty pretty much all week. If you had free lessons, our school said we had to spend 5 of them a week in the library doing work. So once that is taken into account, I probably have around 3 hours a week free in school time (8.40 - 3.20). And some college days are even longer.
    Ah right, we're allowed to come and go as we please in our free time, so that clearly varies.
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    (Original post by .Ali.)
    Fair enough, a lot of places do do things differently. I'm sure if you have a child in year 11, you can put £5 per month away at least, so you have £60 by the time they're in year 12 to buy them some books. People need to plan ahead.
    If only every parent had foresight. They don't, so like I said, a child shouldn't be at a disadvantage because of their parent's blunders.

    (Original post by .Ali.)
    There's a girl I know who's mother is a single parent of two girls on £9k a year. She can't be the only one.
    That's bleak.

    (Original post by .Ali.)
    That could work, but I still don't feel throwing money at teenagers is the best way to deal with things.
    It's not "throwing money at teenagers", it's paying for college related costs, as they should.
    Of course, if you gave free travel passes (as you said) then you wouldn't have to pay as much, but then course-related trips, books and equipment should be free too (by equipment I mean scientific calculators and programs).
    We also don't know how a free travel pass would work, if it could cost the government more as it may mean that more teens use the public services.

    (Original post by .Ali.)
    They're getting an education, that's pretty fair. I can understand them spending it recreationally sometimes, but having £15 left over every week is ridiculous.
    I know £15 a week left over is ridiculous, that's not what i'm advocating.

    (Original post by .Ali.)
    And you didn't have study periods within those?
    About an hour a day, but it's not as though I could use that time freely, the only option was to stay in college, nothing to do within reach, except maybe go for a half hour walk, but those get boring when you're stuck in the same area.
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    (Original post by .Ali.)
    I'm sure they can find some money from somewhere. Don't people start saving as soon as they start earning, like before they have children to make sure they can afford it?
    Not everyone has good parents and most parents don't choose when to have a child.

    (Original post by .Ali.)
    I guess not, but it can't be hard to go to your local library, or college/school library, take out a book, photocopy relevant bits, and there you go.
    The flaw in this plan being that photocopies cost money and are easier to lose than books.
 
 
 
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