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Disabled Man Attacked by Police Watch

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    (Original post by TheFatController)
    If he had been asked to leave, and refused to do so, this was probably the best option available to the police. If they had simply wheeled him away, they would have been accused of insulting his dignity - and I would imagine they would not be too happy about pushing a man in a wheelchair through a crowd, when any metal object can potentially become a weapon. Much safer to drag him out like they would any other person and then reunite him with his wheelchair.


    Very difficult to comment until we hear the justification anyway
    And dragging him out of his wheelchair doesn't insult his dignity?

    There was no crowd for him to be pushed through, watch the video for yourself.
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    I love how the policeman who got pulled off his horse and was/is in critical condition in hospital has been conveniently left out of all of this.
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    (Original post by rlw31)
    And dragging him out of his wheelchair doesn't insult his dignity?

    There was no crowd for him to be pushed through, watch the video for yourself.
    Being dragged away by the police is never going to be the most dignified process. I think there could be an argument to suggest that disabled people would be more offended at having their wheelchair hijacked than being manhandled, however.

    The suggestion I am hearing at the moment is that he refused to move out of the way of police horses, and therefore this changes the perspective slightly. We will have to wait for the whole PSD/IPCC inquiry (however ineffective and soft these may be) before we can truly comment.
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    (Original post by TheFatController)
    Being dragged away by the police is never going to be the most dignified process. I think there could be an argument to suggest that disabled people would be more offended at having their wheelchair hijacked than being manhandled, however.

    The suggestion I am hearing at the moment is that he refused to move out of the way of police horses, and therefore this changes the perspective slightly. We will have to wait for the whole PSD/IPCC inquiry (however ineffective and soft these may be) before we can truly comment.
    Watch it for yourself.

    There are no horses near him and it would have been much easier to wheel him a short distance to the pavement than to drag him from his wheelchair and then carry the wheelchair over to him.
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    (Original post by rlw31)
    Watch it for yourself.

    There are no horses near him and it would have been much easier to wheel him a short distance to the pavement than to drag him from his wheelchair and then carry the wheelchair over to him.
    The computer I'm on at the moment doesn't support Youtube (running Linux from a Live CD in order to flush out a virus, so can't install flash) so until I get a properly installed OS working I'll have to take your word for it. I will look out for the clip in question on the news, however the mainstream media other than the Guardian seem not to be reporting this one.
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    In regards to this, does anyone know of a truth movement kind of thing about the student protests?
    I've heard some pretty mucked up stuff from the people who were there - talking to a girl today who was basically sexually abused by one of the police officers.

    But yeah, does anyone know if a truth movement site about student protests already exists? If not, we're setting one up. Thanks.
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    (Original post by joni_richardson)
    In regards to this, does anyone know of a truth movement kind of thing about the student protests?
    I've heard some pretty mucked up stuff from the people who were there - talking to a girl today who was basically sexually abused by one of the police officers.

    But yeah, does anyone know if a truth movement site about student protests already exists? If not, we're setting one up. Thanks.
    Maybe it was the same girl claiming she was tear gassed?

    How the hell could any cop sexually abuse someone in the middle of a riot.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Maybe it was the same girl claiming she was tear gassed?

    How the hell could any cop sexually abuse someone in the middle of a riot.
    Yeah, it wasn't like she was raped in the middle of a crowd.
    She was basically pushed up against a bollard, and a police officer who'd ripped his badges off rubbed up against her and said "This is how much I ****ing love touching girls without a condom on", which would be a pretty weird quote to make up.

    Not to mention she's reported him to the IPCC, which she obviously wouldn't do if she weren't telling the truth because a) it's a complete waste of time as there'd be no evidence for it, and b) she'd get in a hell of a lot of trouble when they realised she'd been lying.

    Were you actually there? Because the perspective from the people who were right in the heart of it is somewhat different to the perspective of those getting their information from the news.
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    Hate how the BBC interview students in the protest. It reminds me of when some woman was interviewing a student leader last week, implying that his group was to blame for Charles and Camilla's car being pelted. Firstly, it was a group on non-student anarchists piggy-backing on the student protest, and secondly sending the royal limousine in the middle of the protest? Come on, how thick can you get.
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    (Original post by TheFatController)
    The computer I'm on at the moment doesn't support Youtube (running Linux from a Live CD in order to flush out a virus, so can't install flash) so until I get a properly installed OS working I'll have to take your word for it. I will look out for the clip in question on the news, however the mainstream media other than the Guardian seem not to be reporting this one.
    Beeb reported it (badly, in my view). Indy reported it. Even Sky reported it.
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    Jody McIntyre was badly treated by the police and I for one hope those who would do such a thing to a man with cerebral palsy feel the full force of the law come down on them. There is no way he was any sort of threat, maybe the police was insulted by how harmless he was? It should be noted - he is incapable of operating his wheelchair, if the police really felt some sort threat it would have been by whoever was pushing the wheelchair and not Jody.

    (Original post by Aj12)
    Maybe it was the same girl claiming she was tear gassed?

    How the hell could any cop sexually abuse someone in the middle of a riot.
    Sexual abuse doesn't imply rape. Anyone could easily have inappropriately touched anyone else when people are forced in such close proximity - to do it intentionally is sexual abuse. If the aforementioned police officer intentionally did something inappropriate it is sexual abuse. As a concept, you shouldn't dismiss sexual abuse that lightly, however the only evidence seems to be her testimony which will get nowhere.
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      (Original post by fredscarecrow)
      I love how the policeman who got pulled off his horse and was/is in critical condition in hospital has been conveniently left out of all of this.
      The policeman himself said sheepishly that it was his horse that dismounted him...nobody pulled him off.

      Where's the source for the side of the story that you cite? And why would they lie unless to discredit students who were mounting a protest in a supposedly democratic country? :confused:
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        (Original post by Aj12)
        Maybe it was the same girl claiming she was tear gassed?

        How the hell could any cop sexually abuse someone in the middle of a riot.
        There was no riot until the police brought in the horses. Prior to that, the marchers were corralled in a confined space and it would be easy for a copper to get close enough to a female to put his hand (or any other body part) in an inappropriate place.

        Honestly...I see this as just the beginning - the catalyst if you like - of an era that will precipitate that which none of us want to see in this country: widespread anarchy!

        When the community feels that strongly about what they perceive as injustice, they want to bring it to the attention, of whatever government, that enough is enough. If their rights to protest are met with an ever-increasing overreaction of the part of those who are supposed to maintain law and order in a manner that is highly inflammable to the situation, the resolve to protest will get even more embedded in the community.

        We've seen it in other countries...the coalition is prompting it to happen here. People will not stand by and be the targets of swingeing cuts whilst the very wealthy...such as Phil Green, owner of Topshop is able to avoid payment of taxes by means of stealth. These tax loopholes have to be closed and these people who are well able to afford to pay those taxes are made to pay them. Some of the measures introduced by the coalition - eg the delaying of purchasing pension annuities to maximise returns - only benefit the wealthiest 0.5% of the population. Think on that, those who are manipulated by the media.
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        (Original post by yawn)
        There was no riot until the police brought in the horses. Prior to that, the marchers were corralled in a confined space and it would be easy for a copper to get close enough to a female to put his hand (or any other body part) in an inappropriate place.

        Honestly...I see this as just the beginning - the catalyst if you like - of an era that will precipitate that which none of us want to see in this country: widespread anarchy!

        When the community feels that strongly about what they perceive as injustice, they want to bring it to the attention, of whatever government, that enough is enough. If their rights to protest are met with an ever-increasing overreaction of the part of those who are supposed to maintain law and order in a manner that is highly inflammable to the situation, the resolve to protest will get even more embedded in the community.

        We've seen it in other countries...the coalition is prompting it to happen here. People will not stand by and be the targets of swingeing cuts whilst the very wealthy...such as Phil Green, owner of Topshop is able to avoid payment of taxes by means of stealth. These tax loopholes have to be closed and these people who are well able to afford to pay those taxes are made to pay them. Some of the measures introduced by the coalition - eg the delaying of purchasing pension annuities to maximise returns - only benefit the wealthiest 0.5% of the population. Think on that, those who are manipulated by the media.
        Firstly I find it very difficult to believe that no other officer saw it and would just stand there and watch.

        Secondly. The student protests make up such a small minority of people in this country 10k out of a population of 61 million. Hardly anarchy.

        Its not an overreaction. When the protesters are left to their own devices they break into buildings trash them and occupy them. Its not surprise that the Police react the way they do.

        Tax loopholes are very difficult to close if it was easy it would have been done by now, Believe it or not ut the government does not like them ether.

        The Greek riots are a joke and so are the ones in France. They are not even protesting for anything worthwhile. A slight rise in the pension age or no longer being able to give state subsidised holidays.

        Greece is on the verge of bankruptcy yet people still fight for the state perks despite the fact that if they are not cut there may not be a state left at all.

        By the sounds of it your against all cuts so whats your brilliant plan to solve the deficit? Plenty of people feel free to attack the government yet very few are armed with their own plan to solve the problems they attack government for.
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          (Original post by Aj12)
          ...
          Human nature is such that we have values hard-wired into our brains from our formative years.

          These in turn, affect our attitudes to everything that we come across in our lives.

          For me, the well-being of the most vulnerable is paramount...I have always supported the under-dog and look to those in power to do likewise. When they fail them, I get angry and find it hard to respect those who have power exercising that power by the use of force in response to a justifiable sense of outrage on the part of the more vulnerable. Someone has to look out for the latter...

          You, on the other hand, have different values that support the state in whatever they do because you have a belief that they know best and will look after us. That's OK - you can't help your hardwiring anymore than I can...but it's somewhat naive.

          The diametrically opposed responses by TSR members on this and similarly related discussions will be predictable because we are products of both our upbringing, our experience in life and our environment.
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          (Original post by yawn)
          There was no riot until the police brought in the horses. Prior to that, the marchers were corralled in a confined space and it would be easy for a copper to get close enough to a female to put his hand (or any other body part) in an inappropriate place.

          Honestly...I see this as just the beginning - the catalyst if you like - of an era that will precipitate that which none of us want to see in this country: widespread anarchy!

          When the community feels that strongly about what they perceive as injustice, they want to bring it to the attention, of whatever government, that enough is enough. If their rights to protest are met with an ever-increasing overreaction of the part of those who are supposed to maintain law and order in a manner that is highly inflammable to the situation, the resolve to protest will get even more embedded in the community.
          .
          Maybe you're right; I hope you aren't.

          It's very easy to romanticise the current student protests, too easy in fact. Some of the students involved no doubt think they are all the next Che Guevara, and some of them no doubt would love to be involved in 1960s style student power movements. It's easy to forget that, up until last week's vote at least, the the current 'student rebellion' movement was essentially based upon one policy - the opposition of the Browne review.

          I suppose the point that I am trying to make is that some people are more attached to the concept of protest than lower tuition fees. This could go two ways - they could either get bored of protesting about a policy which won't be reversed, or they could find other things to protest about, such as the cuts coming in January.

          I think that widespread anarchy might be taking it a little too far, but if we are unlucky we might see a continuation or worsening of protests and violence. I don't blame Theresa May or the Met for investigating the purchase of water cannons - I would imagine the reason that they are looking into this now but refusing to comment further is because they want to see how the cuts will go down come January.

          As to the resolve to protest getting embedded within society - I see your point. However, there is generally a tendency for the British people to get bored of unrest and protest and for it to break down. For example, the Miners' strikes: These were big, tough Northcountry miners who actually had something to protest about (rather than just protesting on principle at 'unfair reforms', they personally stood to lose their incomes) and who had a deep, ideological hatred for the Tory government (who had a similar deep hatred for them). They were pitted against tough, old-school coppers, in the non-PC context of the early 1980s. Despite the widespread violence and several deaths, the protests eventually fizzled out.
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            (Original post by Aj12)
            Firstly I find it very difficult to believe that no other officer saw it and would just stand there and watch.
            Do you? Didn't you see rogue policemen carrying out inappropriate attacks on some of the students whilst other policeman looked on. Eventually, they might come over and encourage the miscreant to stop what he's doing if they see a camera on them. You need to get out a bit more and see what the real world is all about.

            Secondly. The student protests make up such a small minority of people in this country 10k out of a population of 61 million. Hardly anarchy.
            At the moment, it is not a large section of the population, but once the '**** hits the fan' and the coming cuts start to really bite, we'll see all sections of our population taking to the streets in protest...all apart from those who either prefer others to fight their battles, or those who are doing 'quite nicely, thank you' because the coalition has not taken punative action that affects them. Whilst I'm saying that, I would ask whether you are a 6th former whose future is going to be greatly affected by the increases?

            Its not an overreaction. When the protesters are left to their own devices they break into buildings trash them and occupy them. Its not surprise that the Police react the way they do.
            Chicken, egg...egg, chicken. Most protesters want to do just that...march, hold aloft their banners and chant their slogans. The fact that they were directed by the Police to Parliament Square, only to be corralled and contained in a very small area with no room to move would raise tempers, don't you think? They trusted the police to move them to an area, not realising that the trust was about to be betrayed. And bringing in mounted police to control a situation that was not, at that point, out of control is nothing short of facism.

            Tax loopholes are very difficult to close if it was easy it would have been done by now, Believe it or not ut the government does not like them ether.
            They'll have to try harder, won't they? They know very well that Phil Green is avoiding tax; they know how he is doing it. But they don't take action to stop it because...well, I can only assume that they prefer to direct their cuts at those who have less means of stopping them. Remember that Phil Green is a business advisor to the Tory Party, so they're not going to want to upset him, are they? They'd rather upst those that they can corral, control, fire rubber bullets at and disperse with water canon...after they've meted out initial action by way of batons. I have never felt as strongly for the general populous as I do now. I am sickened...and there will be many, fair-minded people who feel exactly the same way.

            The Greek riots are a joke and so are the ones in France. They are not even protesting for anything worthwhile. A slight rise in the pension age or no longer being able to give state subsidised holidays.

            Greece is on the verge of bankruptcy yet people still fight for the state perks despite the fact that if they are not cut there may not be a state left at all.
            There is no comparison between the cultural attitudes of Greek and French towards any sort of authority and the British. For us to protest takes far more than it does for them. And besides, this is a debate about what's happening here, not what's happening in France and Greece.

            By the sounds of it your against all cuts
            Don't take so much for granted. I'm not against all cuts...I believe that cuts in over-heavy administrative tiers are necessary, regardless of the economic situation. I believe that cuts in the numbers of parliamentarians are necessary because there are too many and their claims cost the country more than is needed if they were pruned. Likewise, the House of Lords needs to be pruned back severely so as we can save money in expenses. Instead, Cameron increased the numbers of Tory Lords to strengthen his future legislative acts. The tax system needs to be radically overhauled so as the mega wealthy pay their fair share of tax proportionate to that paid by the average tax payer.

            so whats your brilliant plan to solve the deficit?
            Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. Rather than mock me, why not ask, in a civilised manner whether I see any alternatives to that being taken to reduce the budget deficit?

            Plenty of people feel free to attack the government yet very few are armed with their own plan to solve the problems they attack government for.
            The problem is, the coalition have been lazy...they look at the biggest costs and then decide to wield the axe indiscriminately in order to reduce the deficit as quickly as possible. If they were to pause, take in some air and not be looking to the next election but rather for the greatest good for the greatest number of people, they would find economies in all sorts of areas.

            We need a long-term deficit reduction plan...and here are some ideas of how to achieve it without targetting the less advantaged overly, as the coalition are intent on doing.

            The way to do this is not by cutting jobs, benefits and services – but by tackling real waste and making tax fairer.

            Making tax fair
            Significant sums could be raised without affecting the incomes of the majority if we made sure the financial sector and the super-rich paid a fairer share. For example: £4.7bn could be raised every year by introducing a 50% tax rate on incomes over £100,000.
            £5bn could be raised every year with an Empty Property Tax on vacant dwellings which exacerbate housing shortages and harm neighbourhoods
            £10bn could be raised every year by reforming tax havens and residence rules to reduce tax avoidance by corporations and "non-domiciled? residents
            £14.9bn could be raised every year by using minimum tax rates to stop reliefs being used to disproportionately subsidise incomes over £100,000.
            £20-30bn could be raised every year by introducing a Major Financial Transactions Tax (or "Robin Hood Tax?) on UK financial institutions
            Estimates of the long-term net cost of the bank bailouts have been estimated at £20-50bn (HM Treasury) to £120bn (IMF) (24). This money must be paid back in full.

            Cutting real waste
            Contrary to recent media attacks, public service productivity has improved every year since 2003. Trade unions play a key role in ensuring staff are treated fairly and involved in making improvements – research indicates that this already saves the taxpayer as much as £3.6bn a year in productivity gains.
            There are other ways we make sure public money is used effectively. For example:
            £500m could be saved every year by adopting measures to improve the health and well-being of NHS staff, thereby reducing sickness absence.
            £1bn could be saved every year by halving the local government agency bill, as has been achieved by high performing councils.
            £1bn could be saved every year by eradicating healthcare acquired infections
            from the NHS – the extra cleaners would cost half this.
            £2.8bn could be saved every year by ending the central government
            use of private consultants who bring little discernable benefit
            £3bn could be saved in user fees and interest charges every year if
            PFI schemes were replaced with conventional public procurement
            £76bn could be saved over 40 years by cancelling Trident
            I agree with these ideas proposed by others who are experts in economics. Do you disagree with any of them?
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            (Original post by yawn)
            Do you? Didn't you see rogue policemen carrying out inappropriate attacks on some of the students whilst other policeman looked on. Eventually, they might come over and encourage the miscreant to stop what he's doing if they see a camera on them. You need to get out a bit more and see what the real world is all about.



            At the moment, it is not a large section of the population, but once the '**** hits the fan' and the coming cuts start to really bite, we'll see all sections of our population taking to the streets in protest...all apart from those who either prefer others to fight their battles, or those who are doing 'quite nicely, thank you' because the coalition has not taken punative action that affects them. Whilst I'm saying that, I would ask whether you are a 6th former whose future is going to be greatly affected by the increases?

            Thats not anarchy thats legitimate protest to very different things.

            Chicken, egg...egg, chicken. Most protesters want to do just that...march, hold aloft their banners and chant their slogans. The fact that they were directed by the Police to Parliament Square, only to be corralled and contained in a very small area with no room to move would raise tempers, don't you think?

            And as I said before when the police do nothing a few start it and plenty more jump in as was proven at Milbank tower.

            They trusted the police to move them to an area, not realising that the trust was about to be betrayed. And bringing in mounted police to control a situation that was not, at that point, out of control is nothing short of facism.

            You really seem to have problems understanding political ideology don't you? If you watch the footage you can see fights breaking out with the police the horses were brought in to help the police reform a stronger line.

            They'll have to try harder, won't they? They know very well that Phil Green is avoiding tax; they know how he is doing it. But they don't take action to stop it because...well, I can only assume that they prefer to direct their cuts at those who have less means of stopping them. Remember that Phil Green is a business advisor to the Tory Party, so they're not going to want to upset him, are they?


            They'd rather upst those that they can corral, control, fire rubber bullets at and disperse with water canon. Shame none of those tactics are legal in Britain and the Et has just said they have no intention of using water cannon

            ..after they've meted out initial action by way of batons. I have never felt as strongly for the general populous as I do now. I am sickened...and there will be many, fair-minded people who feel exactly the same way.

            Apparently not. Almost every MP agrees and supports the police's general actions and tactics bar a few incidences that are now being investigated

            There is no comparison between the cultural attitudes of Greek and French towards any sort of authority and the British. For us to protest takes far more than it does for them. And besides, this is a debate about what's happening here, not what's happening in France and Greece.

            Don't take so much for granted. I'm not against all cuts...I believe that cuts in over-heavy administrative tiers are necessary, regardless of the economic situation. I believe that cuts in the numbers of parliamentarians are necessary because there are too many and their claims cost the country more than is needed if they were pruned. Likewise, the House of Lords needs to be pruned back severely so as we can save money in expenses. Instead, Cameron increased the numbers of Tory Lords to strengthen his future legislative acts. The tax system needs to be radically overhauled so as the mega wealthy pay their fair share of tax proportionate to that paid by the average tax payer.



            Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. Rather than mock me, why not ask, in a civilised manner whether I see any alternatives to that being taken to reduce the budget deficit?



            The problem is, the coalition have been lazy...they look at the biggest costs and then decide to wield the axe indiscriminately in order to reduce the deficit as quickly as possible. If they were to pause, take in some air and not be looking to the next election but rather for the greatest good for the greatest number of people, they would find economies in all sorts of areas.

            Thats politics for you is the only answer I can really give.

            We need a long-term deficit reduction plan...and here are some ideas of how to achieve it without targetting the less advantaged overly, as the coalition are intent on doing.



            I agree with these ideas proposed by others who are experts in economics. Do you disagree with any of them?
            There already is a 50% tax rate its been predicted its going to lead to a lower take in tax.

            As for the bank bailouts can't remember the details but the government owns large portions of Rbs and such and when it sells that share will make back a lot of money.

            Cancelling Trident is a very stupid idea. You would be better off pulling out of Afghanistan and making larger cuts to the armed forces to keep Trident.
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            (Original post by fredscarecrow)
            I love how the policeman who got pulled off his horse and was/is in critical condition in hospital has been conveniently left out of all of this.
            You mean this guy?

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              (Original post by Don John)
              implying that his group was to blame for Charles and Camilla's car being pelted. Firstly, it was a group on non-student anarchists piggy-backing on the student protest, and secondly sending the royal limousine in the middle of the protest? Come on, how thick can you get.
              So much BS in this post.

              "it was a group on non-student anarchists". BULL, that is the same cop-out unsourced excuse that the EDL use. Reputable source plox.


              "sending the royal limousine in the middle of the protest?". It was on Regent Street - categorically nowhere near the arranged protest, which was supposed to have finished over some 6 hours earlier, and some kilometres away.

              Who knew that the violent thugs would go rampaging all over central London? If you knew that they would be doing this in advance - why didn't you tell the police?
             
             
             
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