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    (Original post by taigan)
    I just want to clarify once again that I totally agree homosexuals should not be discriminated against in any way. My whole point was that, although irrational, that is the mindset of these countries (just like your mindset is that adultery or thievery is wrong). I'm not comparing the acts themselves, but rather I'm comparing their significance to you. You aren't going to wake up one day and decide that stealing is alright, are you?
    I reiterate my point that you cannot choose to be a homosexual, but you can choose to steal, ergo I'm not going to wake up one morning and decide that stealing is okay. People choose to steal but people do not choose to become homosexuals, therefore nobody should be punished or executed for being a homosexual.

    You seem to be fine with the mindset of these countries. Did you know that Iran, who voted for gays to be executed, have totally banned university degrees in law, philosophy, politics, sociology and psychology, because the government fears that students studying these subjects will overthrow the supreme dictator of Iran? Hardly a country that seems remotely sane or that has ideas worth listening to.
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      (Original post by taigan)
      However, the fact that you think you can impose your beliefs on people of other cultures is not in spirit of the UK's self-proclaimed multicultural nature.
      Unfortunately you have a serious misunderstanding of the spirit of liberal multiculturalism that is popular in the UK (but that is perhaps forgivable given that you don't live here). The key is that we don't want cultural beliefs imposed on other PERSONS. They should be free to pursue their lives as they wish. The problem in this case is that there are others who do want to impose their cultural beliefs on other persons: governments want to impose their cultural beliefs on the lifestyles of those with a different sexuality. Hence the outrage on this thread.

      The spirit isn't one about having no care whatsoever about what is going on. Many wouldn't consider that freedom. The spirit is one of caring that individuals are given the freedom to live privately as they wish. If they want to opt out of cultural beliefs then they should be able to do so - they are forging their own unique take on a culture, and liberal multiculturalism respects that choice. It doesn't let governments run roughshod over the individual's choice of culture.
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      (Original post by taigan)
      Probably the same reason I've been negged: for having an opinion :s
      I didn't express an opinion, I started the thread.
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      Wait, what year are we living in again?
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      (Original post by YoshiJoshi)
      Democracy: woot: majority's consensus is right! That's the basis that we invade other countries on, right? But when the majority in a fair and objective body vote for something you liberal pansy-fancy students don't like, then it's "why was this vote even held?", "this is appalling", "the UN is useless and shouldn't even exist!".

      Yet when the UN comes out with a Resolution against Iraq, enough for you to invade on, you all lap it up! We love the UN!

      Democratic principles when it suits you - otherwise your views are supreme and will be forced down the throats of everybody else in the world, whether they like it or not. Very fair students. You'll all hate this and I'll get thumbed-down I know, but you know (deep down) that it is true. So there.
      In any liberal democracy (Which the vast majority of people on here support) there are rules and regulations, checks and balances in place to ensure that tyranny of the majority (Which has happened here) doesn't happen. Look up Prop 8 in the USA, and how it was declared unconstitutional, and anybody who supports liberal democracy agrees that a system like that is best i.e where minority rights are protected and the rule of 51% does not infringe upon the rights of others, not the "democracy" of the UN, which is an absolute shambles.
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      (Original post by Cinqueta)
      I reiterate my point that you cannot choose to be a homosexual, but you can choose to steal, ergo I'm not going to wake up one morning and decide that stealing is okay. People choose to steal but people do not choose to become homosexuals, therefore nobody should be punished or executed for being a homosexual.

      You seem to be fine with the mindset of these countries. Did you know that Iran, who voted for gays to be executed, have totally banned university degrees in law, philosophy, politics, sociology and psychology, because the government fears that students studying these subjects will overthrow the supreme dictator of Iran? Hardly a country that seems remotely sane or that has ideas worth listening to.
      Not to disagree with you, but just curious as to if you had a source for this? I have a couple friends I'd like to show this to
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      Has any country executed someone on the basis of their sexual orientation? I know sodomy carries the death penalty in some states but I don't think homosexuality itself is mentioned.
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      (Original post by Kolya)
      Unfortunately you have a serious misunderstanding of the spirit of liberal multiculturalism that is popular in the UK (but that is perhaps forgivable given that you don't live here). The key is that we don't want cultural beliefs imposed on other PERSONS. They should be free to pursue their lives as they wish. The problem in this case is that there are others who do want to impose their cultural beliefs on other persons: governments want to impose their cultural beliefs on the lifestyles of those with a different sexuality. Hence the outrage on this thread.

      The spirit isn't one about having no care whatsoever about what is going on. Many wouldn't consider that freedom. The spirit is one of caring that individuals are given the freedom to live privately as they wish. If they want to opt out of cultural beliefs then they should be able to do so - they are forging their own unique take on a culture, and liberal multiculturalism respects that choice. It doesn't let governments run roughshod over the individual's choice of culture.
      I definitely agree with this: but looking at these nations (many of which have Islam as the dominant religion), its clear that the general opinion of the population is not in favour of homosexuals, so it isn't that the population are being oppressed, just a minority group.
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      (Original post by spacepirate-James)
      Not to disagree with you, but just curious as to if you had a source for this? I have a couple friends I'd like to show this to
      http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101024/...y_restrictions

      http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39820011...east/n_africa/

      http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/10/ir...s-and-un-.html

      Nobody is allowed to learn about human rights in Iran any more either according to the articles.
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      (Original post by Cinqueta)
      I reiterate my point that you cannot choose to be a homosexual, but you can choose to steal, ergo I'm not going to wake up one morning and decide that stealing is okay. People choose to steal but people do not choose to become homosexuals, therefore nobody should be punished or executed for being a homosexual.

      You seem to be fine with the mindset of these countries. Did you know that Iran, who voted for gays to be executed, have totally banned university degrees in law, philosophy, politics, sociology and psychology, because the government fears that students studying these subjects will overthrow the supreme dictator of Iran? Hardly a country that seems remotely sane or that has ideas worth listening to.
      Just like one cannot chose to be a psychopathic killer, but it doesn't mean that these individuals should be free to do what they please. Wait, I know the argument that's going to come up: murderers have an impact on society, they actually harm others. But the whole point is that these people truly believe homosexuals are doing harm. You can't change that, and you don't have the right to
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      (Original post by spacepirate-James)
      Not to disagree with you, but just curious as to if you had a source for this? I have a couple friends I'd like to show this to
      Actually from what I've read they've changed the curriculum with these subjects being changed because the government wants pupils to learn subjects from an Iranian perspective rather than a Western one. I don't know what the curriculum currently is so I don't know whether this is true.
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      Btw for those wondering who voted for what.
      Countries that wanted it removed from the list of discrimination:
      Afghanistan, Algeria, Angola, Azerbaijan, Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belize, Benin, Botswana, Brunei Dar-Sala, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cameroon, China, Comoros, Congo, Cote d’Ivoire, Cuba, Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Democratic Republic of Congo, Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Ghana, Grenada, Guyana, Haiti, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Jamaica, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kuwait, Lebanon, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Morocco, Mozambique, Myanmar, Namibia, Niger, Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Russian Federation, Rwanda, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and Grenadines, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Somalia, South Africa, Sudan, Suriname, Swaziland, Syrian Arab Republic, Tajikistan, Tunisia, Uganda, United Arab Emirates, United Republic of Tanzania, Uzbekistan, Viet Nam, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe

      Countries that wanted it to remain on there:
      Andorra, Argentina, Armenia, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bhutan, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Canada, Chile, Costa Rica, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Estonia, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Guatemala, Hungary, Iceland, India, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Mexico, Micronesia (FS), Monaco, Montenegro, Nepal, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Republic of Korea, Republic of Moldova, Romania, Samoa, San Marino, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Timor-Leste, Ukraine, United Kingdom, United States, Uruguay, Venezuela

      Countries missing from either list abstained from voting
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        (Original post by taigan)
        I definitely agree with this: but looking at these nations (many of which have Islam as the dominant religion), its clear that the general opinion of the population is not in favour of homosexuals, so it isn't that the population are being oppressed, just a minority group.
        Aye, and the point of liberal multiculturalism is that minority groups are not oppressed! Those who don't follow Islam, or who follow a more liberal interpretation of Islam, should be recognized and respected. That's why it is multiculturalism.
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        (Original post by taigan)
        No it isn't wrong. Sorry to disagree with practically everyone on this thread, but the fact that this was voted to pass means that the majority of nations in the UN are in favour of it, thus, their opinion is the majority. They are the norm, if you will. I'm not saying that I agree with this, because I definitely do not. However, the fact that you think you can impose your beliefs on people of other cultures is not in spirit of the UK's self-proclaimed multicultural nature. This is no different then countries who ban alcohol, drugs etc.
        People disagree with it because people disagree with tyranny of the majority. There is nothing justifiable about somebody having their rights taken away because 51% say so. That's not a true democracy, that's a tyrannical majority. In any modern democratic system (Which the UN would probably like to think of itself as) there should be checks and balances to ensure that this doesn't happen, i.e a judiciary which the parliament/executive is accountable to, both of which must adhere to a constitution.

        Don't be under the illusion that democracy is just the majority doing whatever the hell they want, because a true democracy most certainly is not.
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        (Original post by taigan)
        Just like one cannot chose to be a psychopathic killer, but it doesn't mean that these individuals should be free to do what they please. Wait, I know the argument that's going to come up: murderers have an impact on society, they actually harm others. But the whole point is that these people truly believe homosexuals are doing harm. You can't change that, and you don't have the right to
        Homosexuals do not harm to society. The countries that voted against homosexuality are the ones that are brainwashed by religion or a supreme dictator. These people believe that homosexuals are doing harm because their countries do not let them see the other side of homosexuality.

        I can see the argument against being "They do not create children, they cannot create a family unit, it is not mentioned in XYZ religious book that it is correct, they must choose to be homosexual and go against God because it is not natural according to our religious beliefs". On the other hand, the countries do not let their people see that homosexuality is not a choice, they do not let them see that love no matter what gender it is between, and they do not let them see that people should be allowed to be what they want to be and do what they want to do because otherwise the supreme dictator will come and have them and their families killed for stepping the slightest toe out of line.

        Maybe if the people of the countries that voted against homosexuality were allowed to see the other point of view that I described, the prejudiced view would be wiped out in these countries in a matter of years.
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        (Original post by taigan)
        No it isn't wrong. Sorry to disagree with practically everyone on this thread, but the fact that this was voted to pass means that the majority of nations in the UN are in favour of it, thus, their opinion is the majority. They are the norm, if you will. I'm not saying that I agree with this, because I definitely do not. However, the fact that you think you can impose your beliefs on people of other cultures is not in spirit of the UK's self-proclaimed multicultural nature. This is no different then countries who ban alcohol, drugs etc.
        Okay, so it was fine for Hitler to kill the Jews because he was elected?
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        One step forward with DADT, one massive step backward with this UN vote.


        What next... a vote for whether black people can be used as slaves? Or whether Jews should be allowed to live?

        There were always going to be countries looking to legitimise the executions of homosexuals. The real disgrace is that the rights of LGBT citizens are so below others, that it justified a vote. And lives will carelessly, needlessly, barbarically keep being lost thanks to this cause and indeed thumbs up by the UN.

        Sometimes I find it really difficult to find the good in this world. A sad sad day for the human race.
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        **** the UN
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        (Original post by CombineHarvester)
        Has any country executed someone on the basis of their sexual orientation? I know sodomy carries the death penalty in some states but I don't think homosexuality itself is mentioned.
        Just out of interest, does that make it any better? Do you think homosexuals having sex in their own home should be killed?
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        You cant be killed for being gay, you will just be killed for doing gay acts. So just dont get caught and everything will be fine. Obviously this means no more sex in public for the gay people.
       
       
       
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