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    (Original post by mujahid_e3)
    Yes, but its irrelevant because its actually meant to be a day to celebrate the birth of jesus!
    The date for deciding Christmas happened pretty much 1500 years ago. The whole religious demography was a heck of a lot difference back then.

    Right, when Jesus was actually born doesn't matter. Please understand that. The symbolism of Jesus's birth fitted in nicely with pre-existing beliefs surrounding the winter solstice. Also, if you look at the Romans, they were perfectly accepting towards worshipping new gods (they picked up a lot). Therefore it was easier to just go along and say "hey, look we have this nifty god, light of the world etc, fancy worshipping him towards the end of December?" and then slowly phrasing out pre-existing festivals as the Christian festivals became the norm.
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    (Original post by HEJ92)
    No you've completely misunderstood what I'm saying. If you've been given the time off work, you may as well use the time to do something for yourself and your family, everybody else is spending the day at home with their family so you might as well do the same.

    Also, yes Muslims pray every day and feel close to God, but you can do something else for yourself to make YOU feel closer to God as an individual, not just as a Muslim.

    Ok yes that makes sense. But my point was to see why people celebrate christmas on 25th and why people who even dont know nothing about christianity or even belive in christianity or jesus celebrate it!
    But anyway you answered most parts of my question
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    (Original post by mujahid_e3)
    Your response does kind of make sense and i agree on the part of being a family.. But why do people who dont believe in christianity or even jesus celebrate it?
    Because old habits die hard. 100 years ago (or slightly before, basically Victorian era) when the idea of family time and extravagance really took off Christmas became much more than just a humble religious celebration. Victorians influenced our current society a lot more than we realise, so although the religious connotations have drifted away over the last century the traditions of family, food, presents and general Victorian christmas extravagances have stayed put.

    Another reason why you could say its celebrated in December (although this isn't the reason I personally think it was set to that date) is symbolism. Winter is tough, or at least it was historically as people would struggle to survive. Jesus struggled to come to life but managed to even through tough circumstances, so his birth could be seen as a little 'inspiration' for us getting through the winter. Same reason Easter is in Spring as it could represent the new life, although Jesus died then he came back to life, the same way that nature starts coming back to life.
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    (Original post by ajtiesto)
    That's the thing religious festivals are not celebrated freely because there are restrictions imposed like the number of days your allowed to take off work, school etc.

    Plus for your infomation, my mates and I were stopped by police on Eid for having an Islamic flag attached to the car. They stopped us under terrorism act and was told to remove the flag which really pissed me off.
    Honestly, what you're telling me is shocking, but it really isn't down to me, which you're acting as though it is.

    Why not have an Islamic flag in your house? Police can't force you to take it down then?

    Also, many of my friends who are Muslim came into college on Eid (their own choice, they were allowed the day off) and wore flags around them, they were cheered for not told to take them off.

    You can't discriminate against others because once you were discriminated against, if your work don't let you have religious holidays, get a new job or call in sick.
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    (Original post by Hravan)
    The date for deciding Christmas happened pretty much 1500 years ago. The whole religious demography was a heck of a lot difference back then.

    Right, when Jesus was actually born doesn't matter. Please understand that. The symbolism of Jesus's birth fitted in nicely with pre-existing beliefs surrounding the winter solstice. Also, if you look at the Romans, they were perfectly accepting towards worshipping new gods (they picked up a lot). Therefore it was easier to just go along and say "hey, look we have this nifty god, light of the world etc, fancy worshipping him towards the end of December?" and then slowly phrasing out pre-existing festivals as the Christian festivals became the norm.
    Thats like saying people dont know when your birthday is but they celebrate it today for eg! People are meant to have a feeling in their heart for jesus on the day but this does not happen! thats why i say why do people who dont belive in this celebrate it?
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    (Original post by mujahid_e3)
    so what your trying to say is you celebrate because its a public holiday?? That shouldnt be the point? So for e.g if his birthday was confirmed to be on the 11th of june and its not a public holiday, your saying you wont celebrate.. Muslims pray everyday they dont need a specific day to come close to god!
    Christians (supposedly) go to Church every Sunday and there's nothing stopping them from praying everyday. Why do they need a specific day of the year "to come close to god"?
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    (Original post by boromir9111)
    Where does it say in the Sharia that we should take 2 weeks off? As a Muslim, for any law we follow that! we live in the UK, it's their laws and you should follow them!
    I'm not abiding by this countries law or culture thank very much. I follow only Allah's laws and no one else's. I owe this country nothing, I was born here. Just because I'm a muslim that doesn't mean I have to follow the British way of life and integrate into their social type of living. I was born a muslim, I will live like a muslim and I will die a muslim!
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    (Original post by Hravan)
    Christians (supposedly) go to Church every Sunday and there's nothing stopping them from praying everyday. Why do they need a specific day of the year "to come close to god"?
    Im not saying you need a specific day to come close to god! it was a point im trying to make. People say christmas is a day to come close to god! they can do thay any day!
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    (Original post by ajtiesto)
    I'm not abiding by this countries law or culture thank very much. I follow only Allah's laws and no one else's. I owe this country nothing, I was born here. Just because I'm a muslim that doesn't mean I have to follow the British way of life and integrate into their social type of living. I was born a muslim, I will live like a muslim and I will die a muslim!
    You can still be muslim and get on with everyone though. I mean there's no reason we can't comprimise. You give a little you get a little and hence we all live in harmony. No?
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    (Original post by mujahid_e3)
    Why did you have a flag attached to the car in the first place? That is not how eid is meant to be celebrated!
    That's not the point, the police clearly target us because we were muslims and assumed we were terrorists. We merely wanted to show our happiness but we all know the British police have something against muslims in this country so it was no surprise.
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    (Original post by Law123mus)
    You can still be muslim and get on with everyone though. I mean there's no reason we can't comprimise. You give a little you get a little and hence we all live in harmony. No?
    Well said! I agree with you
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    (Original post by ajtiesto)
    I'm not abiding by this countries law or culture thank very much. I follow only Allah's laws and no one else's. I owe this country nothing, I was born here. Just because I'm a muslim that doesn't mean I have to follow the British way of life and integrate into their social type of living. I was born a muslim, I will live like a muslim and I will die a muslim!
    Act like one then!
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    (Original post by ajtiesto)
    It's just an excuse in this country to get drunk, shag strangers and stuff yourself with dirty mince pies. It's a waste of time and it should be banned imo. Pathetic really!
    Just what exactly is dirty about a mince pie?

    I've never shagged a stranger on Christmas day.
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    (Original post by ajtiesto)
    It's just an excuse in this country to get drunk, shag strangers and stuff yourself with dirty mince pies. It's a waste of time and it should be banned imo. Pathetic really!
    **** off.
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    (Original post by HEJ92)
    Honestly, what you're telling me is shocking, but it really isn't down to me, which you're acting as though it is.

    Why not have an Islamic flag in your house? Police can't force you to take it down then?

    Also, many of my friends who are Muslim came into college on Eid (their own choice, they were allowed the day off) and wore flags around them, they were cheered for not told to take them off.

    You can't discriminate against others because once you were discriminated against, if your work don't let you have religious holidays, get a new job or call in sick.
    Well I'm just giving you an example of the things that people of other faiths have deal with in this country. I'm not discriminating against anyone, I just want fairness when it come's to things like religious holidays. There can't one rule for one group and different rule for another. I always here this country treats everyone equally regardless of race, religion or culture but that is certainly not the case here.
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    (Original post by mujahid_e3)
    Thats like saying people dont know when your birthday is but they celebrate it today for eg! People are meant to have a feeling in their heart for jesus on the day but this does not happen! thats why i say why do people who dont belive in this celebrate it?
    Oh gods...

    OK, let me try to explain this in even more simple terms.

    I'm just going to discuss this in terms of Britain now.

    Right, say Rowan Williams turns around next year and says "All Anglicans will now celebrate the birth of Jesus in April not in December" do you seriously think it will happen? No! Take away the whole religious aspect of Christmas and look at the cultural side of it. It is the norm for people to celebrate Christmas, the whole family getting together at the bleakest time of year, the big feast, the presents, the tree etc etc. Christmas isn't just about Jesus anymore (we have the Victorians to thank for that) and people aren't suddenly going to change it as it is something ingrained in our cultural heritage.
    For the same reasons, it's why people who are not Christian might also celebrate it. PLUS, a festival at this time of the year, is not, has never been and will never be something that is exclusively Christian. (Just google winter festivals and see all different religions, cultures etc that have festivals at this time of year which have nothing to do with Jesus.)
    And what is the reason for the end of December not being exclusive to Christians? I've already explain this, it's because there were already pre-existing festivals around the time of the winter solstice when the date of Christmas was decided.

    Thats like saying people dont know when your birthday is but they celebrate it today for eg
    As for this bit. Let's get away from religion and look at the Queen. Her real birthday is in April but the official celebrations are in June. The whole official birthday celebration of the monarch being in June is due to King Edward VII who decided that it would be then in the hope of better weather.
    There's a similar logic behind Christmas. There were already similar celebrations going on so it was easier to amalgamate with these pre-existing festivals rather than trying to create a whole new festival.
    The reasons why it was easier to amalgamate I've already described in the first half of this post. It was already in the collective cultural heritage to have a festival around the winter solstice and therefore far easier to get people to start celebrating Christmas rather than the other festivals as it was something that was already the norm for them to do.
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNf-P_5u_Hw

    this explains alot and may make you wonder if it is even true the whole Christian bit ....but remeber this is one side of the story told and well it explains basically that 25th is when the sun starts to rise in the night again and days become longer and from the 22 or 23rd it stays at the lowest for 3 Days thus signifying his rebirth after 3 days
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    (Original post by Hravan)
    Oh gods...

    OK, let me try to explain this in even more simple terms.

    I'm just going to discuss this in terms of Britain now.

    Right, say Rowan Williams turns around next year and says "All Anglicans will now celebrate the birth of Jesus in April not in December" do you seriously think it will happen? No! Take away the whole religious aspect of Christmas and look at the cultural side of it. It is the norm for people to celebrate Christmas, the whole family getting together at the bleakest time of year, the big feast, the presents, the tree etc etc. Christmas isn't just about Jesus anymore (we have the Victorians to thank for that) and people aren't suddenly going to change it as it is something ingrained in our cultural heritage.
    For the same reasons, it's why people who are not Christian might also celebrate it. PLUS, a festival at this time of the year, is not, has never been and will never be something that is exclusively Christian. (Just google winter festivals and see all different religions, cultures etc that have festivals at this time of year which have nothing to do with Jesus.)
    And what is the reason for the end of December not being exclusive to Christians? I've already explain this, it's because there were already pre-existing festivals around the time of the winter solstice when the date of Christmas was decided.



    As for this bit. Let's get away from religion and look at the Queen. Her real birthday is in April but the official celebrations are in June. The whole official birthday celebration of the monarch being in June is due to King Edward VII who decided that it would be then in the hope of better weather.
    There's a similar logic behind Christmas. There were already similar celebrations going on so it was easier to amalgamate with these pre-existing festivals rather than trying to create a whole new festival.
    The reasons why it was easier to amalgamate I've already described in the first half of this post. It was already in the collective cultural heritage to have a festival around the winter solstice and therefore far easier to get people to start celebrating Christmas rather than the other festivals as it was something that was already the norm for them to do.
    Exactly people now take christmas as a cultural thing not a religious act! thats what im trying to say along with the fact of why on 25th.. Its a religious act and should stay as one but should be done on the right time
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    (Original post by Law123mus)
    You can still be muslim and get on with everyone though. I mean there's no reason we can't comprimise. You give a little you get a little and hence we all live in harmony. No?
    In this country, get on with everyone as a muslim? Not a chance. In this current day and age if your muslim, your either seen as a terrorist, extremist or a 3rd world immigrant living off benefits. When people stop stereotyping muslims like this then maybe, just maybe I could actually feel like I actually live in this country. The only thing that keeps me going is my religion.
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    (Original post by mujahid_e3)
    Exactly people now take christmas as a cultural thing not a religious act! thats what im trying to say along with the fact of why on 25th.. Its a religious act and should stay as one but should be done on the right time
    :banghead:Oh gods, now you're just being obtuse.
 
 
 
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