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'I didn't think of Iraqis as humans,' says U.S. soldier who raped 14-year-old girl Watch

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    (Original post by ash92:))
    sorry, but there's absolutely no justification whatsoever. have you seen the photo of him? he's happy about it!!
    well yeah, but he's messed up, he could be looking happy about anything.

    i'm not trying to condone what he did, i just think that the people who want his head haven't given it enough thought. i mean, if someone did that to a member of my family, i'd be out to kill him myself but that's why the bereaved don't make the laws, there'd be total bloodshed. nobody is going to listen to that man when he says he wouldn't have done it had he not been through U.S. army training, and that really gets to me, because, mental as he is, i think he's onto something.
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    (Original post by CombineHarvester)
    What about his sentencing? Do you think he should be released because his training may have played a part in this?
    no :| i think he should be locked up for the best part of his life.
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    Oh, I'm not human? Sorry, who are the terrorists again?
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    (Original post by MissFanatical)
    they're often trained to see the enemy as inhuman so they're able to follow orders to destroy live humans without thinking twice. i'm not trying to condone his actions at all, just trying to offer an alternative viewpoint to that of him just having the innate nature of a crazy murdering rapist, nor am i attempting to suggest that the training would affect every soldier in the same way, just that a culmination of factors including but not limited to a violent disposition, previous life experience, susceptibility to the methods of training that dehumanise the enemy in the minds of the soldiers and orders and situation at the time all played a factor in what he did.

    i used the example of My Lai before because it's a good example of a whole regiment raping and murdering a village. the chances of that whole regiment (in which there were nearly 30) being like that before the training is tiny.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre - worth a read

    it's one of far too many examples.
    Yeah but 3 of the really brave soldiers tried to help the civillians and i suspect others wanted to but were too scared to go against the actions of their superiors so joined in. Have you every considered these people are sadistic evil individuals that joined the army to supply their thirst for blood
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    War is messed up, end of.
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    I just read the thread title, and noticed straight away the irony in what he said.
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    (Original post by littleangel9914)
    Yeah but 3 of the really brave soldiers tried to help the civillians and i suspect others wanted to but were too scared to go against the actions of their superiors so joined in. Have you every considered these people are sadistic evil individuals that joined the army to supply their thirst for blood
    yes i have, i'm sure there are people from all walks of life in the army. i just think that the indoctrination he's gone through as a matter of routine has been completely ignored in this case, and it's going to happen again and again.
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    (Original post by MissFanatical)
    well yeah, but he's messed up, he could be looking happy about anything.

    i'm not trying to condone what he did, i just think that the people who want his head haven't given it enough thought. i mean, if someone did that to a member of my family, i'd be out to kill him myself but that's why the bereaved don't make the laws, there'd be total bloodshed. nobody is going to listen to that man when he says he wouldn't have done it had he not been through U.S. army training, and that really gets to me, because, mental as he is, i think he's onto something.
    come on, are you serious? what else would he be smiling about. any sane person would be distraught after doing something like that, if not atleast ashamed. it can't be put down to army training or every US soldier would be the same, if not a large number from the same training camp, right? i say an eye for an eye and a head for a head. end of.:mad:
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    (Original post by MissFanatical)
    i used the example of My Lai before because it's a good example of a whole regiment raping and murdering a village. the chances of that whole regiment (in which there were nearly 30) being like that before the training is tiny.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre - worth a read
    While I don't wish to distract from the point you're making, it's worth pointing out a few things: 30 is not an entire regiment, it might be some of what's left after a lot of hard fighting, but 30 is barely a company [that's really just semantics though], what's really of note is that the incident was stopped by another serviceman. A helicopter pilot [who's name -shamefully- escapes me at the moment] saw what was happening and landed his helicopter right in the middle of it, saving the locals.

    For all it's possible to say that these soldiers are cretinous, vile beings, it's worth remembering there are good people out there too. All too many people on this forum forget that...

    (Original post by jaheen22)
    The American army really is full of nut jobs.
    ...as evidenced by this tool.
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    (Original post by Doodledoo1)
    Before being Muslim, they are human. Something ignorant people like you won't be familiar with.
    Guess you missed the irony.

    Am a Muslim.
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    (Original post by MissFanatical)
    people on this forum would do the same if they were put through the same training.
    that's far too much of a generalization, so I have to disagree. In the army you're taught combat, it is kill or be killed. And there are usually battle fieldss or evacuated towns/cities where they take place. It is always taught that at all costs soldiers are to avoid killing civilians.

    Soldiers are also taught to always follow orders from superiors. Once read on a case in Vietnam where a soldier was made to gather civilians and his superior said "you know what to do". The soldier thought this meant keeping them quiet or in order so he did so, when the superior returned his annoyed at why they were all still alive, and ordered him to kill. And despite his moral conflict, the soldier did it, because theywere trained to always follow orders.

    If that was the case here, I might be more understanding but he did it of his own accord. Not just killing, but raping before killing? Yet he didn't even regard them as humans. There's no excuse. I wouldn't join the army because I would rather not kill another human, or be killed, but that's because in this country we have a choice. If it was by force then, I can accept I'd have to kill if needed. But I can honestly say with my morals I don't see why I'd feel the need to harm the innocent. They're not the one's who decided to put the country in war.

    (Original post by Lovely88)
    He raped and killed the family so therefore only the same punishment should be fair! A eye for eye..
    "Eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".

    There aren't enough words in the dictionary to help me describe completely how much learning of things like this sickens me.
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    The world makes me sick sometimes. It really does.
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    (Original post by ash92:))
    come on, are you serious? what else would he be smiling about. any sane person would be distraught after doing something like that, if not atleast ashamed. it can't be put down to army training or every US soldier would be the same, if not a large number from the same training camp, right? i say an eye for an eye and a head for a head. end of.:mad:
    That's the point. He's not sane. Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is a recognised mental illness. Why is that so hard to understand?
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    (Original post by Yawn11)
    If that was the case here, I might be more understanding but he did it of his own accord. Not just killing, but raping before killing? Yet he didn't even regard them as humans. There's no excuse. I wouldn't join the army because I would rather not kill another human, or be killed, but that's because in this country we have a choice. If it was by force then, I can accept I'd have to kill if needed. But I can honestly say with my morals I don't see why I'd feel the need to harm the innocent. They're not the one's who decided to put the country in war.
    And it's not possible for different people to be affected differently by the events they go through?
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    That's the point. He's not sane. Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is a recognised mental illness. Why is that so hard to understand?
    if he's proved to be insane, fair enough. he should get some sort of mental treatment. if not .....#!#*#!
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    (Original post by silent ninja)
    I didn't criticise 'the armed forces' I simply said they should not be immune from criticism and your comment is case in point. Say anything against a soldier(s) and you're done for.

    I agree with what you're saying generally about bad apples, but whenever our forces (any western force actually) commits a crime it's potrayed as an 'isolated incident' whereas when anybody else does it, it's in their inherent nature and we're above them or they don't like our way of life blah blah <insert huge generalisation>. Doubel standards.
    Soldiers are trained not to question, to question orders gets people killed - you cant become a soldier then turn round in the middle of a battlefield and go "nope sarge dont feel like opening fire" that gets you, your squad mates and those others you may be protecting killed.

    However acts like this (despite it being done throughout the ages by soldiers and civillians alike) should not be ignored or covered, he should be sentenced to the full extent of the law thrown in prison and left to rot.
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    (Original post by lovely_me)
    The world makes me sick sometimes. It really does.
    If only everyone thought like you
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    While I don't wish to distract from the point you're making, it's worth pointing out a few things: 30 is not an entire regiment, it might be some of what's left after a lot of hard fighting, but 30 is barely a company [that's really just semantics though], what's really of note is that the incident was stopped by another serviceman. A helicopter pilot [who's name -shamefully- escapes me at the moment] saw what was happening and landed his helicopter right in the middle of it, saving the locals.

    For all it's possible to say that these soldiers are cretinous, vile beings, it's worth remembering there are good people out there too. All too many people on this forum forget that...
    .
    i'm not too sharp on army terminology, wiki called it a 'unit,' perhaps i'd have been better to call it that.

    and of course there are wonderful people in the army, but for so many to act in such a vicious way? i mean, what are the chances of such a large group of murderous men having put together randomly? i don't think it's possible not to consider the training and indoctrination they've gone through as a massive, massive factor. i just wish more people would consider it before quoting 'an eye for an eye' etc. it scares me that people are still so intent on retribution in this day and age, rather than from tackling the problem at the source. then again, if they weren't trained to see the enemy as animals, they prob wouldn't kill them and then they'd lose the war :| but then again they shouldn't be there in the first place. but then again... etc etc D: D:
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    (Original post by warrior-1)
    Don't worry they're Muslims. They're use to it.
    HAHAHAHAHA no, b**** dissing muslims and yeat got Muhammed Ali's quote in your sig!

    Dumbass chavy p**** much?

    Yes, you have p*sse* me off. :mad:
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    (Original post by MissFanatical)
    yes i have, i'm sure there are people from all walks of life in the army. i just think that the indoctrination he's gone through as a matter of routine has been completely ignored in this case, and it's going to happen again and again.
    You almost sound like this is a new thing, its not soldiers especially those who have seen a lot of combat have been raping and killing civilians for centuries if not eons. Even supposedly devout christian crusaders were not averse to the whole burn rape pillage and kill emotions. I dont pretend to fully understand it but its part of the human psyche. The difference between these days and those days is if you get caught (publically) you will be tried for it.
 
 
 
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