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Labour is making a tit of itself in opposition Watch

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    (Original post by im so academic)
    I don't think people will be quick to forget the Labour party's contribution to Britain's sickening social problem any time soon. :rolleyes:
    Britain doesn't have a sickening social probelm! When Tories talk about 'broken Britain', I feel like throwing something at them. Britain has its problems, true, but it isn't broken. I think Billy Bragg has something to say on this issue - I'll see if I can find the quote.
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      (Original post by d123)
      Britain doesn't have a sickening social probelm! When Tories talk about 'broken Britain', I feel like throwing something at them. Britain has its problems, true, but it isn't broken. I think Billy Bragg has something to say on this issue - I'll see if I can find the quote.
      Really?

      Teenage pregnancy, benefits dependency, culture of rights, higher divorce rates, more single-parent families, the chav underclass, amount of NEETs, binge-drinking... need I go on?
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      (Original post by im so academic)
      Really?

      Teenage pregnancy, benefits dependency, culture of rights, higher divorce rates, more single-parent families, the chav underclass, amount of NEETs, binge-drinking... need I go on?

      Well the three I've emboldened are just irrelevant


      But do enlighten us, how would the Tories tackle teenage pregnancy, higher divorce rates and binge drinking?
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      The Tories tried this but failed miserable actually, look how long it took for Cameron to come into power, only because of the deplorable economy and lack of part leadership and cohesion of Labour that allowed him to enter parliament, and even with that he has to form a coalition. I think the Tories are the ones who are and will fail miserably!
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      (Original post by Barden)
      Well the three I've emboldened are just irrelevant


      But do enlighten us, how would the Tories tackle teenage pregnancy, higher divorce rates and binge drinking?
      Err obviously the'd say less government intervention and less tax should help lol.
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      (Original post by im so academic)
      Really?

      Teenage pregnancy, benefits dependency, culture of rights, higher divorce rates, more single-parent families, the chav underclass, amount of NEETs, binge-drinking... need I go on?
      I bet you fit into one of those categories or a ***** whichever! :cool::rolleyes:
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      (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
      Labour is pretty much a non opposition.

      That said the Tories and Liberals need to start taking responsibility and focusing on business not keeping harping on about "Labour left us bankrupt". Yeah we get the picture, we've been hearing this since the election. The Irish government left the Irish more bankrupt than Labour left us, the Greek government left the Greeks more bankrupt than Labour left us, even in the US they keep going on about how the Republicans destroyed the countries finances so its not Obamas fault he inherited such a mess yadayada. The global financial crisis put us all in a bad mess, our monetary independence and the Bank of England has helped keep our heads above water, now lets move on and climb out of it, every time I hear a minister start harping on about Labour did this it makes me think here's a guy without a solution, so he's getting in his excuses in advance.

      With Ed personality less Miliband in charge, the Labour party isn't a serious threat atm so its a chance to govern and not bother taking political potshots. Cameron should deal with Miliband the way Blair did with Hague in his first term, he barely acknowledged him.
      With Labour ahead in an average of the latest opinion polls (http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/) it seems odd that you dismiss them as a "non opposition". Even if you do think Ed is a tit the fact is that at the moment they are strong opposition.
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      (Original post by im so academic)
      Really?

      Teenage pregnancy, benefits dependency, culture of rights, higher divorce rates, more single-parent families, the chav underclass, amount of NEETs, binge-drinking... need I go on?
      Many of those are hardly 'broken' things - 'culture of rights' - surely it's a good thing we have rights and recognise these? Single parent families don't have to be a bad thing - I know some amazing single mothers, and a few amazing single fathers. The 'nuclear family' may be declining, but that doesn't mean disaster.

      Every day there are people giving up their time to work for charity, to help relatives and friends as carers, to do little things to make the world a better place. Just because the news always focusses on the negative aspects, that doesn't mean that positive things aren't there. 'Hundreds of people sleep out in the snow to raise money for homeless charity' doesn't make as good a headline as 'Teenager stabs old lady' or whatever else gets headlines on a daily basis.

      Anyone who says Britain is broken clearly doesn't look further than their Daily Mail. I'm not saying it's not perfect, and there are problems with our country, none of which are going to be solved by scrapping benefits such as EMA, or tightening immigration regulations, or privatising the universities.
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        (Original post by Barden)
        Well the three I've emboldened are just irrelevant


        But do enlighten us, how would the Tories tackle teenage pregnancy, higher divorce rates and binge drinking?
        It's not about whether the Tories can tackle it nor not; I was merely outlining some social problems the Britain currently has.
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        (Original post by im so academic)
        It's not about whether the Tories can tackle it nor not; I was merely outlining some social problems the Britain currently has.

        Well it is, seeing as Cameron coined the term 'Broken-Britain' so that he could pledge to 'fix' it...
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          (Original post by d123)
          Many of those are hardly 'broken' things - 'culture of rights' - surely it's a good thing we have rights and recognise these?
          Not if it means that 16 year olds "feel" that they are entitled to weekly government assistance at sixth form, acting as if it is their "right" to a share of taxpayers' money.

          Single parent families don't have to be a bad thing - I know some amazing single mothers, and a few amazing single fathers. The 'nuclear family' may be declining, but that doesn't mean disaster.
          Of course there are wonderful single mothers/fathers. I did not deny that. However are you not aware of the implications of divorce/separation on the child with regards to their mental and emotional well-being, let alone in other areas?

          Every day there are people giving up their time to work for charity, to help relatives and friends as carers, to do little things to make the world a better place. Just because the news always focusses on the negative aspects, that doesn't mean that positive things aren't there. 'Hundreds of people sleep out in the snow to raise money for homeless charity' doesn't make as good a headline as 'Teenager stabs old lady' or whatever else gets headlines on a daily basis.
          How is this relevant to anything?

          Anyone who says Britain is broken clearly doesn't look further than their Daily Mail. I'm not saying it's not perfect, and there are problems with our country, none of which are going to be solved by scrapping benefits such as EMA, or tightening immigration regulations, or privatising the universities.
          No they won't be solved, but I am not against the last three things you have listed.
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            (Original post by Barden)
            Well it is, seeing as Cameron coined the term 'Broken-Britain' so that he could pledge to 'fix' it...
            If I'm being perfectly honest, I have not heard any concrete reforms he wishes to implement with regards to "Broken Britain".
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            (Original post by im so academic)
            Not if it means that 16 year olds "feel" that they are entitled to weekly government assistance at sixth form, acting as if it is their "right" to a share of taxpayers' money.
            Well, they are. Taxes no longer belong to the individual but to the society, to be spent in the way that benefits people, particularly the most vulnerable. EMA is necessary for many teenagers at college, who otherwise wouldn't be able to attend. Yes, it gets abused, but that doesn't mean it should be scrapped because a few abuse it. Education is a right, unfortunately it comes at a financial cost - it would be depriving people of that right if they were unable to continue their education because they couldn't afford it.

            (Original post by im so academic)

            Of course there are wonderful single mothers/fathers. I did not deny that. However are you not aware of the implications of divorce/separation on the child with regards to their mental and emotional well-being, let alone in other areas?
            For some children yes. But I know many well-adjusted happy children in single parent families, and many unhappy children who are less well-adjusted who have been brought up by the supposed 'ideal'.

            (Original post by im so academic)
            How is this relevant to anything?
            It's completely relevant! I was talking about how Britain isn't broken, and giving evidence for it. There are people who work hard for the good of society, just some evidence that Britain isn't broken and that not everything is as doom and gloom as the Tories make it out to be.

            (Original post by im so academic)

            No they won't be solved, but I am not against the last three things you have listed.
            It's after midnight so I really don't have time to go into the three things in depth to explain why I believe they are travesties, but while I believe Britain isn't broken, it's things like that which will make it so. Tory-led policy which will erode communities, destroy the chances of a whole generation and bring no economic benefit (in fact, cause further economic problems) to the country.
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            Ed Milliband's blame game is getting old. Instead of eating humble pie and acknowledging the fact that the cuts were to counteract the economic mess Labour left us in, as well as being hypocritical about their position on tuition fees, he is like "We don't agree with the government, so therefore support us". Who commissioned the review and wanted to raise fees? Labour, so they can STFU. And calling for the transport secretary to be sacked? Really? Because I sure don't remember the Labour Trans. Secretary getting fired last year. And I don't remember a Labour minister getting sacked over the floods or the trouble with Terminal 5. Simple case of New Labour not practicing (or is it practising?) what they now preach.

            What really annoys me is the people who are jumping on the "Tories are scum" bandwagon, blaming them for their woes, forgetting that Labour was the root cause of their troubles.
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            (Original post by yahyahyahs)
            Ed Milliband's blame game is getting old. Instead of eating humble pie and acknowledging the fact that the cuts were to counteract the economic mess Labour left us in, as well as being hypocritical about their position on tuition fees, he is like "We don't agree with the government, so therefore support us". Who commissioned the review and wanted to raise fees? Labour, so they can STFU. And calling for the transport secretary to be sacked? Really? Because I sure don't remember the Labour Trans. Secretary getting fired last year. And I don't remember a Labour minister getting sacked over the floods or the trouble with Terminal 5. Simple case of New Labour not practicing (or is it practising?) what they now preach.

            What really annoys me is the people who are jumping on the "Tories are scum" bandwagon, blaming them for their woes, forgetting that Labour was the root cause of their troubles.
            The "mess we're in" is mostly due to a GLOBAL financial crisis. Is is Labour's fault that most other countries are worse off than us?
            If anything Gordan Brown helped secure recovery.
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            (Original post by yahyahyahs)
            Ed Milliband's blame game is getting old. Instead of eating humble pie and acknowledging the fact that the cuts were to counteract the economic mess Labour left us in, as well as being hypocritical about their position on tuition fees, he is like "We don't agree with the government, so therefore support us". Who commissioned the review and wanted to raise fees? Labour, so they can STFU. And calling for the transport secretary to be sacked? Really? Because I sure don't remember the Labour Trans. Secretary getting fired last year. And I don't remember a Labour minister getting sacked over the floods or the trouble with Terminal 5. Simple case of New Labour not practicing (or is it practising?) what they now preach.

            What really annoys me is the people who are jumping on the "Tories are scum" bandwagon, blaming them for their woes, forgetting that Labour was the root cause of their troubles.
            Well that's wrong.

            Also, just because Labour commissioned the Browne Review, doesn't mean that they would necessarily have implemented its proposals.

            Also, the Tories are far worse than Labour for playing the blame game. Almost every single time I've read a statement by Cameron or seen him on the news, he's been talking about the 'mess Labour left us in', which quite frankly shows him to be either ignorant or a liar.

            And finally, it isn't a bandwagon. At least, maybe some people are jumping on the bandwagon, but not everyone. When I was at school, I was one of the only people arguing in favour of Labour. Almost everyone else was Conservative or apolitical. Then you get the people who suddenly became Lib Dem after the tv debates - now that's jumping on a bandwagon. I've thought the Tories are scum since I first became aware of politics. You might disagree with me, but I hardly think I was jumping on any bandwagons.
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            (Original post by jim666666)
            With Labour ahead in an average of the latest opinion polls (http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/) it seems odd that you dismiss them as a "non opposition". Even if you do think Ed is a tit the fact is that at the moment they are strong opposition.
            Oppositions are usually ahead in opinion polls, I would not call the Labour party under Michael Foot or Neil Kinnock a strong opposition, but they had big leads over Mrs Thatcher in 1980-82 and 1985-86, 1988-91.

            The problem with Labour at the moment is they have not got a convincing or coherent challenge to the Tories. Although I didn't think this at the time of the leadership campaign, I now think Ed Balls would have been a better choice, or at least he should have been Chancellor, because he's the only Labour figure who appears to have formed in his own mind a convincing argument on which to fight the Tories. Yes he may not be a likely PM but there's a time for that type of leader (when the government is running out of steam) and a time when you are up against it and need someone who has some intellectual confidence to rock the government a bit. Look at what the Tories did when they were in an all time low after Iain Duncan Smith in 2003, they appointed Mr Unpopular Michael Howard, and he got the party some more credibility by getting stuck in and landing some blows on Blair, which opened the door for Cameron after him.

            The way I see it at the moment is Ed Miliband is doing a caretaker leader job, he will either limp along to defeat / another hung parliament in 2015, or will be replaced in around 2013. I doubt he will be Prime Minister. In fact I reckon the next leader will be Yvette Cooper who is a much stronger contender than he is.
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            (Original post by adam_zed)
            omdz david "hitler" cameron zmg

            seriously though, surely you cant argue too much with the claim that the Conservatives dominate the coalition?
            They do, yes, but its hardly Thatcher again, is it? They've not been 'ultra right wing' at all really.
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            (Original post by im so academic)
            Of course there are wonderful single mothers/fathers. I did not deny that. However are you not aware of the implications of divorce/separation on the child with regards to their mental and emotional well-being, let alone in other areas?
            Just thought I'd highlight that infact parents staying together when they are arguing/in a loveless relationship/in an abusive relatinship is actually much worse for the child.

            My parents are divorced, my parents fell out of love, basically ignored each other because they thought splitting up would be unfair on us, it was damaging my studies & schoolwork until they eventually split up and I could finally get my mind back on track.

            I know that's only one case, I'm not expecting to generalise that, but I know from studies in A-Level Sociology that this is the case most of the time.

            Maybe a 'nuclear' family is better ideally, but if the foundations aren't there and the love isn't there to function as one, then there's no other option but to split up and this is much better than attempting to make it work for the children's sake.

            I don't think it's a sign of 'broken britain' at all, it's just a consequence of an ever-changing society.
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            (Original post by Barden)
            It also shows that the Conservatives made even worse 'errors' (i.e. did the exact same thing, but in a shorter space of time and considering they had no global recession to deal with, to worse effect).
            There was a global recession in the early 90's and early 80's.
           
           
           
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