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    (Original post by akash11)
    Just impliment a nation wide intelligence tets for all uni applicants in year 12 it will make the system much more eglatarnisim
    How will we measure intelligence, what is intelligence??
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    (Original post by akash11)
    Actully Iq test a very difficult to coach for a very few peopel could coach a person to make a signifient diffranbce to their score, ultimatly it would be almost impossible to find a system that is perfect and ensures people get the places they deserve to based on their intelligence, but it defintly improve the system to a great degree.

    Also, an iq test could be used in conguntion with a levels, or subject sepfic unversity entrance exams which test knowlage and for them their is a simple rank sysytmen such as pass, merit, distinction. etc thsi will asses both subject knowlage and intelligence without giving to much of an advantage to any one group
    http://iq-test.learninginfo.org/iq02.htm
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    (Original post by akash11)
    Actully Iq test a very difficult to coach for a very few peopel could coach a person to make a signifient diffranbce to their score, ultimatly it would be almost impossible to find a system that is perfect and ensures people get the places they deserve to based on their intelligence, but it defintly improve the system to a great degree.

    Also, an iq test could be used in conguntion with a levels, or subject sepfic unversity entrance exams which test knowlage and for them their is a simple rank sysytmen such as pass, merit, distinction. etc thsi will asses both subject knowlage and intelligence without giving to much of an advantage to any one group
    Like you can't be coached for the 11+as it's a test of intelligence. And yet almost everyone who sits it for our school, and who can afford to, gets tuition which produces a notable increase in score
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    (Original post by akash11)
    Actully Iq test a very difficult to coach for a very few peopel could coach a person to make a signifient diffranbce to their score, ultimatly it would be almost impossible to find a system that is perfect and ensures people get the places they deserve to based on their intelligence, but it defintly improve the system to a great degree.

    Also, an iq test could be used in conguntion with a levels, or subject sepfic unversity entrance exams which test knowlage and for them their is a simple rank sysytmen such as pass, merit, distinction. etc thsi will asses both subject knowlage and intelligence without giving to much of an advantage to any one group
    you can definitely practice IQ tests. honestly.
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    (Original post by akash11)
    Actully Iq test a very difficult to coach for a very few peopel could coach a person to make a signifient diffranbce to their score, ultimatly it would be almost impossible to find a system that is perfect and ensures people get the places they deserve to based on their intelligence, but it defintly improve the system to a great degree.

    Also, an iq test could be used in conguntion with a levels, or subject sepfic unversity entrance exams which test knowlage and for them their is a simple rank sysytmen such as pass, merit, distinction. etc thsi will asses both subject knowlage and intelligence without giving to much of an advantage to any one group
    You can coach it quite easily. There's a finite combination of questions they can ask (for example, in sequence questions with shapes, there's a finite number of possible sequences) so you just tutor them for a specific amount of these questions. Over the years, there's been an internet IQ test i've gone back to every few months. The questions never change but i *never* see the answers. Nevertheless, my score is higher each time simply because i'm more prepared for the questions which will come up. Coaching gives a very similar effect.
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    (Original post by gethsemane342)
    You can coach it quite easily. There's a finite combination of questions they can ask (for example, in sequence questions with shapes, there's a finite number of possible sequences) so you just tutor them for a specific amount of these questions. Over the years, there's been an internet IQ test i've gone back to every few months. The questions never change but i *never* see the answers. Nevertheless, my score is higher each time simply because i'm more prepared for the questions which will come up. Coaching gives a very similar effect.
    Yes buts its better at distigusing and demostrating ablity then a levels, being reltivly cheap and easy to impliment it would still be a move towards improving the system
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    (Original post by RK92)
    eugh, this whole discussion annoys me every time.

    ive lived on a council estate all my life, went to a crappy high school and go to the local state sixth form which is decent. i had free school meals in primary school and have always been entitled to them but i took packed lunch all through high school because of some comments made in primary school about free school meals.

    i applied to cambridge with 5 A* prediction (having already achieved one in maths). i never once felt like i was being discriminated against. it was completely fair - my interview was as tough as any oxbridge interview and at no point was i made to feel out of place because of my background.

    i got an offer.

    i wish people would criticize the system which produces the candidates when its not the unis fault that the best people applying to them usually come from public schools.

    i also wish that state school students who got rejected would stop blaming their background and accept that it is possible to get into oxbridge regardless of your background.
    Full on agree with this!
    I go to an awful excuse for a sixth form attached to my high school and they struggle to send people to uni let alone 'prestigious' ones. Is it because we have worse grades? or because most people's parents didn't go to uni? No, its because half the time we're discouraged from applying to 'good' universities let alone Oxbridge, just because of people's assumptions that we will be discriminated against. It's ridiculous. I applied to Oxford with an A*AA and Welsh Bacc Pass prediction and had an interview just like any other candidate who got that far. The only ones who asked about my background were other applicants!

    In my school myself and one other girl applied to Oxbridge Universities and both got offers. At the private girl's school not so far away around 40 applied (but I don't know about offers). If more of private school students apply and actually receive help with their application then obviously more of them will get in.
    Why would a tutor reject an applicant on their background? What would be the point? :confused:
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    (Original post by Cariie)
    Why would a tutor reject an applicant on their background? What would be the point? :confused:
    ... becauase their all rashist. :rofl:
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    (Original post by Steph90)
    ... becauase their all rashist. :rofl:
    erm. . .what? :confused:
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    (Original post by Cariie)
    erm. . .what? :confused:
    sorry.
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    (Original post by Steph90)
    sorry.
    I think I've missed something here :/
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    (Original post by Cariie)
    I think I've missed something here :/
    i was just being an idiot.. trust me you didn't miss anything.

    nobody would find what I posted funny, except for me.. because it doesn't mean anything to anybody but me.

    The question you finished your post with reminded me of a conversation... Long story.
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    (Original post by Steph90)
    i was just being an idiot.. trust me you didn't miss anything.

    nobody would find what I posted funny, except for me.. because it doesn't mean anything to anybody but me.

    The question you finished your post with reminded me of a conversation... Long story.
    Oh right ok
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    akward
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    (Original post by King-Panther)
    Are you sure... So what was the point of the OP's post?
    Poor backgrounds are discriminated for, not against.

    Poor background correlates with lower grades, worse school, worse education, probably less help with PS/admissions. This is why there is such a difference, it's not because they choose rich people over poor people because of their wealth.
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    (Original post by akash11)
    Yes buts its better at distigusing and demostrating ablity then a levels, being reltivly cheap and easy to impliment it would still be a move towards improving the system
    not really, iq tests tell you how good you are at spotting patterns and you can certainly practise spotting patterns. theres also a lot of matching words to synonyms/antonyms which can definitely be improved just by expanding your vocabulary and understanding grammar.
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    (Original post by RK92)
    i dont agree with the constant oxbridge-bashing that goes on and im not convinced that oxford and cambridge are somehow morally obliged to positively discriminate.
    Maybe not morally obliged, but there's quite a strong pragmatic argument for favoring state school kids - see here.
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    (Original post by RK92)
    not really, iq tests tell you how good you are at spotting patterns and you can certainly practise spotting patterns. theres also a lot of matching words to synonyms/antonyms which can definitely be improved just by expanding your vocabulary and understanding grammar.
    Yes, but Iq test are spefically desgined to make sure its only your intelligence that can spot patterns, and why on avearge studies indicate peoples iq remains more or less the same througout their life. Also vocuabulary is thought to be closly related to intelligence with most individals in the devloped world reaching their ful capcity for vocabulary.
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    (Original post by King-Panther)
    I think that my confidence is justified, still doesn't guarantee me a place but one can only try.
    Our tutors told us they couldn't care less about personal statements, by the way.
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    (Original post by akash11)
    Yes, but Iq test are spefically desgined to make sure its only your intelligence that can spot patterns, and why on avearge studies indicate peoples iq remains more or less the same througout their life. Also vocuabulary is thought to be closly related to intelligence with most individals in the devloped world reaching their ful capcity for vocabulary.
    so you think that someone who takes an iq test for the first time in their life would get a score as accurate as someone who had been preparing by doing practise questions and working on pattern spotting?

    (Original post by Dann)
    Maybe not morally obliged, but there's quite a strong pragmatic argument for favoring state school kids - see here.
    i dont think that gives a particularly strong argument for favouring state schoolers in the case of oxbridge (remember this thread is about oxbridge which may be considered a slightly special case). anyone who applied to oxbridge will be predicted AAA at the very minimum because A levels arent really testing them enough.

    anyone who wants to go to oxford or cambridge should definitely be capable of getting A*AA at a level regardless of who teaches them - oxbridge students are supposed to be the ones who find a levels annoyingly easy and so to expect a 90% average in 2 exams isnt asking an awful lot of any potential oxbridge student.

    saying that a state schooled person getting ABB is as good as a privately schooled student getting AAA may be a fair call but saying that a state schooler getting A*A*A is as good as and maybe better than a privately schooled student getting A*A*A* is a very grey area which is what interviews are for. i dont agree at all that oxbridge should be offering AAB to state school students because a B shows a distinct lack of knowledge/flair for a subject given the number of chances you get to retake and how easy a levels are to prepare for (regardless of school IMO)

    this is where interviews come into play... this is where they test your ability to reason and think for yourself... but again, like iq tests, these can be prepared for so dont give the full story.

    in the case of unis offering ABB for courses, its a much more interesting debate and im inclined to think that positive discrimination, as much as i hate the idea, might be a realistic improvement. tbh, i find the idea of being positively prejudiced quite offensive in a way but i can see the merits...
 
 
 
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