The State/ Private School Debate!
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Original post by tazarooni89
Bleh. I find it really strange when people who have never set foot in a private school start feeling like they know everything about what goes on inside. Apparently I missed all the "being taught that we're the elite" and the "lack of good gender relations/equality" etc. even after spending 15 years there.
Why the over presumptiveness?
Also, it is a fallacy to say that one school or the other better prepares a student for the "real world". The "real world" is different for everybody.
Why the over presumptiveness?
Also, it is a fallacy to say that one school or the other better prepares a student for the "real world". The "real world" is different for everybody.
So how is the "real world" when bankrolled by mummy and daddy?
Lol, am I the only person here who went to a rubbish comprehensive? Every else seem to be either private school, a 'top state school' or a grammar school.
Also, what's all this *******s about the 11+? A system that defines a child's path in life at age 11 in a pretty poor one in my opinion. If people want to have a sixth form or college aimed at higher achieving pupils that seems OK, because at that age the pupil can understand the consequences of the choices they make and the way they perform in exams.
Either way, it doesn't look like you will be seeing the 11+ much, most primary schools seem to be moving away from testing in any form.
Also, what's all this *******s about the 11+? A system that defines a child's path in life at age 11 in a pretty poor one in my opinion. If people want to have a sixth form or college aimed at higher achieving pupils that seems OK, because at that age the pupil can understand the consequences of the choices they make and the way they perform in exams.
Either way, it doesn't look like you will be seeing the 11+ much, most primary schools seem to be moving away from testing in any form.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by TheGrandmaster
Lol, am I the only person here who went to a rubbish comprehensive? Every else seem to be either private school, a 'top state school' or a grammar school.
No you're not.
Original post by dontlookhere
No you're not.
Well that's reassuring.
Having been to state schools my whole life up to Year 10, I cannot stress how much better a private all girls school is [ok it may just be mine] but I'm pretty sure they're all of the same calibre. So... why is it?
1) smaller classes - although I live in london so it's 20 per class which isn't that much of a difference I guess. Although in Manchester it should be smaller so you'd have more attention
2) more motivation, when you're sitting in a lesson that costs £20 an hour you tend to concentrate more, well arguable some people do fall asleep but hey. thats physics for you
3) more opportunities, before i started I did not know one single person who skied or rode, there are so many more ECs compared to your average netball and cricket teams.
4) better teaching, our french teachers are french, english teachers are failed writers...
5) the way you talk becomes more articulate and professional, which tbh is priceless in the modern world. Who will take you seriously if you have the vocabulary of a 16 year old?
6) better stationary - gone are the days of exercise books. ok this doesn't really matter but it is a plus
yeah so get back to relaxing and enjoying xmas! and on the GCSEs note. They're all easy, but still, well done if you exceed your predictions. And transfer to private school for 6th form because i guarantee your chances at University will be much higher.
1) smaller classes - although I live in london so it's 20 per class which isn't that much of a difference I guess. Although in Manchester it should be smaller so you'd have more attention
2) more motivation, when you're sitting in a lesson that costs £20 an hour you tend to concentrate more, well arguable some people do fall asleep but hey. thats physics for you
3) more opportunities, before i started I did not know one single person who skied or rode, there are so many more ECs compared to your average netball and cricket teams.
4) better teaching, our french teachers are french, english teachers are failed writers...
5) the way you talk becomes more articulate and professional, which tbh is priceless in the modern world. Who will take you seriously if you have the vocabulary of a 16 year old?
6) better stationary - gone are the days of exercise books. ok this doesn't really matter but it is a plus
yeah so get back to relaxing and enjoying xmas! and on the GCSEs note. They're all easy, but still, well done if you exceed your predictions. And transfer to private school for 6th form because i guarantee your chances at University will be much higher.
Original post by LizzieHibbert
I'm 15, I go to one of the biggest coeducational comprehensive schools in the UK and I'm predicted 8 A*s and 2 As in my GCSEs. My brother is 18 and has been made a conditional offer to study for an MPhys at Durham University.
My Mum is a well-paid financial director, and could easily have afforded to send my brother and I to Manchester Grammar School and Alderley Edge for Girls, respectively. However, she discussed this with us when we were 11, because she had been forced by her parents to go to grammar school and we each came to the independant decision that the local comprehensive was right for us.
There were a number of reasons for this.
1) Coeducational schools promote better gender relations and equality.
2) Private schools are virually exclusively attended by British middle-class children of white or asian origin. That simply doesn't reflect the working or social reality.
3) A mixed level of class and intellectual ability fosters good social skills and cultural perspective.
4) Gifted children learn to self-motivate themselves.
5) 18 year olds are not pressured into University if it is not the right choice for them (Mum hated university; furthermore her godson got 4As at A-level, went to study engineering in Edinburgh and failed all of his first-year exams, because his school tutors at MGS bullied him into HE even though he didn't want to do it)
6) Privately educated children are taught that they are the elite. Talented children in state education are taught that intellectual ability does not make them better than others.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the issue.... please reply
My Mum is a well-paid financial director, and could easily have afforded to send my brother and I to Manchester Grammar School and Alderley Edge for Girls, respectively. However, she discussed this with us when we were 11, because she had been forced by her parents to go to grammar school and we each came to the independant decision that the local comprehensive was right for us.
There were a number of reasons for this.
1) Coeducational schools promote better gender relations and equality.
2) Private schools are virually exclusively attended by British middle-class children of white or asian origin. That simply doesn't reflect the working or social reality.
3) A mixed level of class and intellectual ability fosters good social skills and cultural perspective.
4) Gifted children learn to self-motivate themselves.
5) 18 year olds are not pressured into University if it is not the right choice for them (Mum hated university; furthermore her godson got 4As at A-level, went to study engineering in Edinburgh and failed all of his first-year exams, because his school tutors at MGS bullied him into HE even though he didn't want to do it)
6) Privately educated children are taught that they are the elite. Talented children in state education are taught that intellectual ability does not make them better than others.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the issue.... please reply
I quite enjoy the state/private debate...
1 - "Coeducational schools promote better gender relations and equality."
Perhaps, yes. However, girls in same-sex schools have a much, much better chance of high grades. Without the distraction of boys, who are often badly behaved and detrimental to girls education, girls perform better. Without girls to impress, boys stop acting how they do in the classroom. However I do see your point about gender relations. I would not like to go to a same-sex school, though one must see the benefits of it, in terms of academic achievement.
2 - "Private schools are virually exclusively attended by British middle-class children of white or asian origin. That simply doesn't reflect the working or social reality."
Totally, totally depends where you live. Where I live, the private schools are mostly white, even in the cities. Private schools may not reflect the social reality, but then again, top state-funded universities do not either. It's a sad reality that only the affluent can afford private education. However, this is what makes it better. The kids there are middle-class, they generally have a good attitude towards education. Their parents are much more involved in their education, they're paying for it. Yes, it doesn't reflect the amount of working class, or Afro-Caribbeans there are in society, but that's just the way it is.
3 - "A mixed level of class and intellectual ability fosters good social skills and cultural perspective."
Mixed intellectual ability is a bad idea. The clever kids resent the slower kids for, well, slowing the class down. The slower kids resent the clever kids for being clever. Grouping children by intellectual ability is a good idea because it allows for focused learning. Can you imagine teaching GCSE Maths to a group of students whose predicted grades (based on performance, nothing else, I know ALIS et al go by postcode and that) vary from A-E? That'd be a nightmare, for all the students and the staff. It can't be done. The best thing you can do is set students but let them know that they can move up and down sets if their work reflects so.
4 - "Gifted children learn to self-motivate themselves"
Not all. As a child I was always considered 'very bright' and 'gifted', and I was in the 'gifted and talented club' in year 7, but I lost all motivation from about the age of 13/14 till I was 18, I'm 20 now and just recovering from it, after getting horrendous GCSEs in 2007 and even worse AS results in 2008 (UUUU). At a private school, that wouldn't have happened. I'd already be at university, probably a bloody good one. Something that I can now never do because of my poor GCSEs.
5 - "18 year olds are not pressured into University if it is not the right choice for them (Mum hated university; furthermore her godson got 4As at A-level, went to study engineering in Edinburgh and failed all of his first-year exams, because his school tutors at MGS bullied him into HE even though he didn't want to do it)"
Okay, I agree with you here. I imagine private institutions like to boast about having 100% of upper VIth students getting into university.
6 - "Privately educated children are taught that they are the elite. Talented children in state education are taught that intellectual ability does not make them better than others"
Massive generalisation. Not all private kids are snooty, but the ones that are have probably been brought up that way by their parents, not their tutors. State school students presumably come from less affluent backgrounds and have not been brought up like that.
In conclusion, private schools are much better than state schools. That doesn't mean I don't see the huge unfairness that it can create. The solution is not to abolish private schools, but to improve state schools. Improve state education until it can compete at a reasonable level. Of course, it'll never be able to complete totally, private schools have so much money, but at the moment state schools could be a lot better. Half of the problem in state schools is idiots like I was when I was at school.
Original post by LizzieHibbert
I'm 15, I go to one of the biggest coeducational comprehensive schools in the UK and I'm predicted 8 A*s and 2 As in my GCSEs. My brother is 18 and has been made a conditional offer to study for an MPhys at Durham University.
Good for you, but what does that have to do with anything?
Original post by LizzieHibbert
1) Coeducational schools promote better gender relations and equality.
2) Private schools are virually exclusively attended by British middle-class children of white or asian origin. That simply doesn't reflect the working or social reality.
3) A mixed level of class and intellectual ability fosters good social skills and cultural perspective.
4) Gifted children learn to self-motivate themselves.
5) 18 year olds are not pressured into University if it is not the right choice for them (Mum hated university; furthermore her godson got 4As at A-level, went to study engineering in Edinburgh and failed all of his first-year exams, because his school tutors at MGS bullied him into HE even though he didn't want to do it)
6) Privately educated children are taught that they are the elite. Talented children in state education are taught that intellectual ability does not make them better than others.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the issue.... please reply
2) Private schools are virually exclusively attended by British middle-class children of white or asian origin. That simply doesn't reflect the working or social reality.
3) A mixed level of class and intellectual ability fosters good social skills and cultural perspective.
4) Gifted children learn to self-motivate themselves.
5) 18 year olds are not pressured into University if it is not the right choice for them (Mum hated university; furthermore her godson got 4As at A-level, went to study engineering in Edinburgh and failed all of his first-year exams, because his school tutors at MGS bullied him into HE even though he didn't want to do it)
6) Privately educated children are taught that they are the elite. Talented children in state education are taught that intellectual ability does not make them better than others.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the issue.... please reply
Anyway, I went to a state comprehensive (a fairly decent one), here is my PoV.
1. Can't see why state comps would do that and private/grammar schools would not, if we exclude single gender schools
2. Not entirely sure what you mean by that, though school generally doesn't reflect the outside world anyway
3. As somebody who went to a state comp, this is NOT true. for one thing, you are put into ability sets in some subjects. meanwhile, in mixed classes, the best students are not pushed because the teacher is too busy battling to get the idiots their C grade.
4. So... what is the significance of this?
5. So many people feel like they have to go to university regardless of what type of school they attended. Stupid amounts of people apply to university these days. At my school, pretty much everyone stayed on at sixth form and the huge majority of those who did went on to university. And being pushed to do something can be a good thing.
6. Privately educated kids might be taught a few lessons in snobbery, but intellectual elitism is everywhere. the whole system of grades clearly defines which people are 'better' than others.
Original post by TheGrandmaster
Well that's reassuring.
Average state comprehensive here.
Two students. Both have 10A* at GCSE. Who looks better? State school kid. End of.
Original post by dnumberwang
Spoiler
Oh the irony...
Original post by LizzieHibbert
1) Coeducational schools promote better gender relations and equality.
2) Private schools are virually exclusively attended by British middle-class children of white or asian origin. That simply doesn't reflect the working or social reality.
3) A mixed level of class and intellectual ability fosters good social skills and cultural perspective.
4) Gifted children learn to self-motivate themselves.
5) 18 year olds are not pressured into University if it is not the right choice for them (Mum hated university; furthermore her godson got 4As at A-level, went to study engineering in Edinburgh and failed all of his first-year exams, because his school tutors at MGS bullied him into HE even though he didn't want to do it)
6) Privately educated children are taught that they are the elite. Talented children in state education are taught that intellectual ability does not make them better than others.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the issue.... please reply
1) Coeducational schools promote better gender relations and equality.
2) Private schools are virually exclusively attended by British middle-class children of white or asian origin. That simply doesn't reflect the working or social reality.
3) A mixed level of class and intellectual ability fosters good social skills and cultural perspective.
4) Gifted children learn to self-motivate themselves.
5) 18 year olds are not pressured into University if it is not the right choice for them (Mum hated university; furthermore her godson got 4As at A-level, went to study engineering in Edinburgh and failed all of his first-year exams, because his school tutors at MGS bullied him into HE even though he didn't want to do it)
6) Privately educated children are taught that they are the elite. Talented children in state education are taught that intellectual ability does not make them better than others.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the issue.... please reply
at 11 i picked to go to private school although i wish i couldve gone to a state sixth form
but..
1) not always, but boys learn social skills from girls
2) dont think its just middle class, it depends where the school is
5)YES they pressure you SO much, sometimes they can almost black mail you into it, i want to go but because they were making so many threats i almost cancelled my application
6) not sooo true, a lot of people from private schools are taught by their parents theyre elite and not the school itself (although ive only experienced my school so others could be different)
i think going to a private school was good for me because im a really unmotivated person and being forced to work has made me get the grades i can get...otherwise i might not have tried as hard buuuutt then again we'll never know if i might have...
Original post by dnumberwang
Spoiler
i actually laughed out loud!
Original post by junglejungle
went from a life of state school to private for 6th form, honestly best decision i ever made. really hate these kind of posts but thought this young'un needed to hear a few truths... what college you hittin up next year? i'm gonna be a christ church-er 
Completely agree, and Wadham baby
Oxford is to university as M&S is to food1) Coeducational schools promote better gender relations and equality.
True, but if you are into your studies, single-sex schools (especially girls) are often higher in the rankings. I've been to both though and much, much prefer co-ed. Far more balanced and a much nicer atmosphere.
2) Private schools are virually exclusively attended by British middle-class children of white or asian origin. That simply doesn't reflect the working or social reality.
Depends on school and location but you can't apply a blanket statement like that. I'm not white, asian and I wouldn't call myself middle-class and I go to a private school and although the majority are white or Asian there are plenty of people of different classes, ethnicities, religions and cultures. It is far more diverse than my brother's state school. I don't see why it's a problem because at my school all the different races intermingle and are friends with each other whereas at state schools although there are more minorities they all seem to stick to groups e.g. asians only hang out with other asians and black people all group together.
3) A mixed level of class and intellectual ability fosters good social skills and cultural perspective.
Maybe but many private schools have this so not a problem imo.
4) Gifted children learn to self-motivate themselves.
And gifted pupils at private schools don't have to?
At state schools they don't push you to the best of your ability and many people who have potential don't realise it and under achieve.
5) 18 year olds are not pressured into University if it is not the right choice for them (Mum hated university; furthermore her godson got 4As at A-level, went to study engineering in Edinburgh and failed all of his first-year exams, because his school tutors at MGS bullied him into HE even though he didn't want to do it)
Can't argue with that...They do pressure you and there was a girl last year who was set on not going but they practically forced her to go through UCAS anyway "in case she changed her mind".
6) Privately educated children are taught that they are the elite. Talented children in state education are taught that intellectual ability does not make them better than others.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the issue.... please reply
We're taught that we are privileged and in the top 5% etc. and academic ability is emphasised but it's an academic school so can't complain really. I don't see this as a problem it's only really the head that goes on about such things and no one takes it seriously so it's not like we all go around with hugely inflated egos or anything. I certainly don't see myself as "elite" in anyway LOL.
If people can afford to send their children there then I don't see much of a problem but it does depend on the school. I come from a fairly poor area and I hate telling people that I go to a private school because I face a lot of prejudice about it from people who assume some of the things you have and worse about them and those who attend them. The state schools in my area are seriously **** and just really, really bad and private school sure isn't perfect but for me and plenty of others it's better than the alternative. I know that my GCSE grades wouldn't have been as good had I gone to the local comprehensive.
True, but if you are into your studies, single-sex schools (especially girls) are often higher in the rankings. I've been to both though and much, much prefer co-ed. Far more balanced and a much nicer atmosphere.
2) Private schools are virually exclusively attended by British middle-class children of white or asian origin. That simply doesn't reflect the working or social reality.
Depends on school and location but you can't apply a blanket statement like that. I'm not white, asian and I wouldn't call myself middle-class and I go to a private school and although the majority are white or Asian there are plenty of people of different classes, ethnicities, religions and cultures. It is far more diverse than my brother's state school. I don't see why it's a problem because at my school all the different races intermingle and are friends with each other whereas at state schools although there are more minorities they all seem to stick to groups e.g. asians only hang out with other asians and black people all group together.
3) A mixed level of class and intellectual ability fosters good social skills and cultural perspective.
Maybe but many private schools have this so not a problem imo.
4) Gifted children learn to self-motivate themselves.
And gifted pupils at private schools don't have to?
At state schools they don't push you to the best of your ability and many people who have potential don't realise it and under achieve.
5) 18 year olds are not pressured into University if it is not the right choice for them (Mum hated university; furthermore her godson got 4As at A-level, went to study engineering in Edinburgh and failed all of his first-year exams, because his school tutors at MGS bullied him into HE even though he didn't want to do it)
Can't argue with that...They do pressure you and there was a girl last year who was set on not going but they practically forced her to go through UCAS anyway "in case she changed her mind".
6) Privately educated children are taught that they are the elite. Talented children in state education are taught that intellectual ability does not make them better than others.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the issue.... please reply
We're taught that we are privileged and in the top 5% etc. and academic ability is emphasised but it's an academic school so can't complain really. I don't see this as a problem it's only really the head that goes on about such things and no one takes it seriously so it's not like we all go around with hugely inflated egos or anything. I certainly don't see myself as "elite" in anyway LOL.
If people can afford to send their children there then I don't see much of a problem but it does depend on the school. I come from a fairly poor area and I hate telling people that I go to a private school because I face a lot of prejudice about it from people who assume some of the things you have and worse about them and those who attend them. The state schools in my area are seriously **** and just really, really bad and private school sure isn't perfect but for me and plenty of others it's better than the alternative. I know that my GCSE grades wouldn't have been as good had I gone to the local comprehensive.
Original post by dontlookhere
So how is the "real world" when bankrolled by mummy and daddy?
The "real world" for such people is one in which parents look after their children financially, and when those children grow up they do the same for their children etc.
Original post by tazarooni89
The "real world" for such people is one in which parents look after their children financially, and when those children grow up they do the same for their children etc.
Good for you. Remember though, for some people thats so far from reality its quite insulting to tell them what the "real world" is to you, seeing as you clearly have no idea what the word "real" means
Original post by TheGrandmaster
Also, what's all this *******s about the 11+? A system that defines a child's path in life at age 11 in a pretty poor one in my opinion.
Really? Where I live, we have the 11+ system, and in my opinion, it works. The statisics speak for themselves in that the grammar schools (which take those who pass the 11+) have very high pass rates at GCSE and A-level and althought the secondary schools don't, people who do well from them often move to the sixth forms at the grammar schools.
Is this not better than the comprehensive system?
I think Private schools add more value to an individual than state schools. Some people who are in state schools such as the OP and her brother turn out straight A's all because they have a high level of academic ability/ intelligence. For someone who is not as clever as that, private school education can really add so much value and they can end up turning out straight A's too.
I had the experience of both private and state school education when I was at school and I valued the private school education by far.
I had the experience of both private and state school education when I was at school and I valued the private school education by far.
Well... at least you don't go to an Academy that likes to pretend it's private, but isn't actually. Hell.
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