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Musician tour earnings released - more than footballers pay! (gasp) Watch

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    (Original post by dnumberwang)
    You could say the exact same thing but the other way around. People pay to watch games, and maybe some people don't want to go see live music. It's clear that some musicians are massive tossers as well...
    Yes, I know, that's why I said 'on a more personal note' at the start of the sentence.

    The fact of the matter for me is you see footballers rolling around on the floor for a kick in the shin pads or something equally as standard in a football match which is pathetic. Then I go and see Frank Turner doing a gig where he informs us that his doctor told him not to sing and that he should be in bed but he wants to do the gig for us and then he still puts on a hell of a show even though it's clear his voice was going. That's great. It shows that he actually cared about the fans, rather than these footballers who are just rolling around for a free kick.
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    (Original post by PurpleMonkeyDishwasher)
    A rather peurile way of putting it but musicians produce art which enriches the lives of the people who pay their wages. How in the same way can a top-earning footballer's wage be justified?
    As I said early on in the thread,

    "If I had to choose between having no music to listen to or no football to watch for the rest of time, I would choose to watch football, every single time. "

    I feel my life is 'enriched' a lot more by football than it is by music. More people must prefer music (and that's why top musicians are more highly-paid), but a significant people 'appreciate' football enough to shell out the money to go and watch it, therefore justifying the high salaries of the players. It is the same for Gaga, if her shows are good enough to pay £60 to go and watch, and people do, then in my opinion she is justified in earning so much money.

    (Original post by hothedgehog)
    Yes, I know, that's why I said 'on a more personal note' at the start of the sentence.

    The fact of the matter for me is you see footballers rolling around on the floor for a kick in the shin pads or something equally as standard in a football match which is pathetic. Then I go and see Frank Turner doing a gig where he informs us that his doctor told him not to sing and that he should be in bed but he wants to do the gig for us and then he still puts on a hell of a show even though it's clear his voice was going. That's great. It shows that he actually cared about the fans, rather than these footballers who are just rolling around for a free kick.
    You have taken two (ridiculous) extreme examples there, neither of which are common. There are cases of footballers playing with an injury, and cases of musicians calling off shows for little/no reason. There are a lot more 'divas' in music than in football. Very poor example imo.


    e: just to make it absolutely clear, I am not talking about on a personal level whether you enjoy football or music more. I am wondering why many people consider footballers to be overpaid, when musicians and other athletes earn several times more (eg 6 times more or 10 times more) and are not considered overpaid.
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    a footballer will be paid if he is injured or on the bench...

    a musician who does the same simply doesn't get paid....(and are much more talented and hard working)
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    Not another irrelevant thread, our economy is structured on capitalism not communism. Our prices are determined by an automatic system called the price mechanism. No ******* sits and decides one person should earn £1 bn and another £0.05 for everyone in the country.

    I can't believe it, when I see people writing "He doesn't deserve that", unfortunately alot of people do not agree. These musicians and footballers are only paid high wages, because some people actually like the entertainment they bring, if no-one likes them, they will not get any ticket sales and therefore they will be not earning huge figures.

    It can also be argued that along with private benefit, musicians bring alot of social benefit to the economy (such as higher levels of happiness), therefore the wages should be even higher as social benefit is not considered as a factor in the price mechanism, unless there is Government intervention.


    (Original post by Lemons)
    I think they are all overpaid, but I also think that musicians probably work harder for it. They are constantly on the road and that must be really hard for their family life, and most footballers don't have that kind of lifestyle.
    No room for subjective statements, you cannot suddenly decide somebody probably has a harder career, without any statistics.

    (Original post by shadow99)
    Footballers are overpaid imbeciles.

    Muscians at least do something useful.
    Another opinionated statement. If you don't like footballer, but prefer music then you will go to a music concert for example. Therefore you are acting as the component of demand within the music industry. You think footballers are overpaid? Well apparently a percentage of the public do not agree.
    Wages are determined from the collective demand of match tickets. In the market economy, the reward for labour is not decided by someone deciding one career is more useful than another.


    (Original post by Cybele)
    Nobody "deserves" that much money, full stop.
    Once again, we encounter the "deserve" bullcrap. You cannot determine who deserves more. If more consumers enjoy the entertainment they receive then, the higher wages are rewarded as a result of success.

    (Original post by Drunk Punx)
    I used to play football every day. I called it a "hobby"

    The only difference between them then and them now is that they're getting paid for it.
    A very naive perspective on the footballing profession. Big clubs (Barcelona, Liverpool, Real Madrid etc) all have more supporters and higher ticket sales due to the fact the clubs have players with a high productivity (Statistics such as goals per season, shots per game etc). A top professional footballing position has many barriers to entry such as natural skill, high injury risk factor, low career life (10-15 years) etc. You cannot take a random college boy to play for top teams. It takes Mental and physical strength and ability. Players have to train several days a week, eat balanced and specific diets, maintain their well-being, travel across the country throughout the season. There is only a short percentage of the population that is capable of withstanding such a career, bringing us back to the economics, this short supply of the labour in this market results in a higher cost of clubs to hire players (higher wage levels).

    (Original post by Panda Bear)
    Lady Gaga charges like £60 for her shows. I saw Radiohead for £35. Based on that alone, for me, she charges way too much.


    Lady Gaga is overpaid. There.
    The price is reflected by the collective demand for tickets. The more popular musician will have more expensive tickets due to a larger demand for tickets, resulting in a higher total revenue.

    "Lady Gaga is overpaid" is clearly subjective.


    (Original post by kilowattjester)
    They deserve it because we are all stupid enough to buy it.
    Exactly. If people go out to buy tickets then the musicians/footballers will earn money. Simple as. IN our economy, whether somebody deserves wages or not, is determined by consumers collectively in terms of economics actions (purchasing a ticket) not a single person's decision.
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    (Original post by infernalcradle)
    a footballer will be paid if he is injured or on the bench...

    a musician who does the same simply doesn't get paid....(and are much more talented and hard working)
    A musician can make a record and it can be selling for years and years, once they have released it they don't have to do any more work (on that piece). Once a footballer receives his pay, he has to keep working to get his next pay-packet. They are different types of work, but in both cases they are very competitive and you have to be amongst the best to earn the big money. If a player is injury-prone/injured a lot it definitely impacts the amount of money they earn (on their next contract).

    What evidence do you have that musicians are both much more talented and harder working?
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    (Original post by M_E_X)
    You have taken two (ridiculous) extreme examples there, neither of which are common. There are cases of footballers playing with an injury, and cases of musicians calling off shows for little/no reason. There are a lot more 'divas' in music than in football. Very poor example imo.

    Both of the situations I put out are common occurrences, I'm sure that if I wanted to watch football this weekend I could find a lot of cases of acting on the pitch and the same that if you've ever tried singing a concert every night for months on end you'd have problems with your voice at some point, trust me! I also know that musicians try not to cancel their shows as much as possible but it's sometimes impossible due to things like venue issues, losing of the voice, family deaths etc. etc.. Of course there are 'divas' in music, it's a performing art where acting or having a 'large personality' can be part of their show. Footballers have no right to be divas, they should get out on that pitch and play well and hard for 90 minutes with none of this rolling around. Football doesn't need to have acting in it.
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    (Original post by dsinghdahiya257)
    -win-
    Awesome post, clearly someone who understands economics rather than the "but Wayne Rooney cheated on his wife he doesn't deserve any money and 50 cent is really talented!!!" type of arguments we have had in the rest of the thread. I'll definitely +rep when I can.


    The absolute key point to take home, folks:

    "These musicians and footballers are only paid high wages, because some people actually like the entertainment they bring, if no-one likes them, they will not get any ticket sales and therefore they will be not earning huge figures."
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    (Original post by hothedgehog)
    Both of the situations I put out are common occurrences, I'm sure that if I wanted to watch football this weekend I could find a lot of cases of acting on the pitch and the same that if you've ever tried singing a concert every night for months on end you'd have problems with your voice at some point, trust me! I also know that musicians try not to cancel their shows as much as possible but it's sometimes impossible due to things like venue issues, losing of the voice, family deaths etc. etc.. Of course there are 'divas' in music, it's a performing art where acting or having a 'large personality' can be part of their show. Footballers have no right to be divas, they should get out on that pitch and play well and hard for 90 minutes with none of this rolling around. Football doesn't need to have acting in it.
    The vast majority of footballers aren't divers, just like the vast majority of singers don't cancel shows.
    Trying to paint all footballers as divers/lazy, and all musicians as hardworking/struggling simply isn't correct.

    I don't think there is any evidence that musicians care more about their fans than footballers do, for example. There are both good and bad examples of both sides.


    This thread wasn't really about who is 'better' footballers vs musicians, it was a thread about why do people consistently moan that footballers are overpaid when many other people (musicians, other athletes, CEOs) are paid much higher sums for doing a job which is not very fundamentally different, and people don't seem to mind/complain.

    My view is that none of these people are overpaid, it's a free and fair market, but some people seem to think that footballers are overpaid and the others aren't - and I wanted to know why.
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    (Original post by M_E_X)
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-12088397
    Lady Gaga earned ~£85m just from her one tour this year. This is about 8 times more than the very highest paid footballers earn.
    Carlos Tévez is on £300,000 a week after tax. That's £15 million net - the equivalent of £30 million before tax. So 8x is a bit high.

    Also I wonder if the £85 million is a figure for the total takings rather than Gaga's profit?
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    (Original post by juanmodesto)
    Carlos Tévez is on £300,000 a week after tax. That's £15 million net - the equivalent of £30 million before tax. So 8x is a bit high.

    Also I wonder if the £85 million is a figure for the total takings rather than Gaga's profit?
    £85m is total takings, yeah, as discussed a few times in the thread.

    Got a source for the £300k after tax thing? Thanks

    e: I have never heard a figure anything like that high before, that's all - sorry for doubting you if you are proved right!
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    (Original post by hothedgehog)
    Yes, I know, that's why I said 'on a more personal note' at the start of the sentence.

    The fact of the matter for me is you see footballers rolling around on the floor for a kick in the shin pads or something equally as standard in a football match which is pathetic. Then I go and see Frank Turner doing a gig where he informs us that his doctor told him not to sing and that he should be in bed but he wants to do the gig for us and then he still puts on a hell of a show even though it's clear his voice was going. That's great. It shows that he actually cared about the fans, rather than these footballers who are just rolling around for a free kick.
    You're ignoring the many many musicians who are absolute ********s... those who seek attention by jumping on the nearest fashionable liberal 'equality peace unicorns' bandwagon annoy me the most

    And seriously, diving isn't as common as you're making out, unless the only football you've been watching is the Spanish national team
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    (Original post by shadow99)
    Footballers are overpaid imbeciles.

    Muscians at least do something useful.

    Surely the exact same thing could be said by swapping the word 'footballers' with 'musicians'. Stating your opinion does not make it fact.
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    (Original post by PurpleMonkeyDishwasher)
    A rather peurile way of putting it but musicians produce art which enriches the lives of the people who pay their wages. How in the same way can a top-earning footballer's wage be justified?
    It 'enriches the lives', as you're saying, of the fans who pay their wages and go and watch their club, or country, no more or less than a musician does.
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    (Original post by PurpleMonkeyDishwasher)
    A rather peurile way of putting it but musicians produce art which enriches the lives of the people who pay their wages. How in the same way can a top-earning footballer's wage be justified?
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    Was I ignorant for assuming that the majority of people realised top musicians get paid more than footballers?
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    (Original post by dsinghdahiya257)
    A very naive perspective on the footballing profession. Big clubs (Barcelona, Liverpool, Real Madrid etc) all have more supporters and higher ticket sales due to the fact the clubs have players with a high productivity (Statistics such as goals per season, shots per game etc). A top professional footballing position has many barriers to entry such as natural skill, high injury risk factor, low career life (10-15 years) etc. You cannot take a random college boy to play for top teams. It takes Mental and physical strength and ability. Players have to train several days a week, eat balanced and specific diets, maintain their well-being, travel across the country throughout the season. There is only a short percentage of the population that is capable of withstanding such a career, bringing us back to the economics, this short supply of the labour in this market results in a higher cost of clubs to hire players (higher wage levels).
    They could play for Chatham for all I care, my statement is still true nonetheless; they weren't getting plaid for playing football when they were 8, they are now.
    And as someone already said, travelling from London to Newcastle is hardly a stretch when you consider that musicians have to travel all over the globe if they're doing such a tour.
    Footballers only have to do that if they're in one of the multi-country cups (Champions League et al).
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    (Original post by M_E_X)
    £85m is total takings, yeah, as discussed a few times in the thread.

    Got a source for the £300k after tax thing? Thanks

    e: I have never heard a figure anything like that high before, that's all - sorry for doubting you if you are proved right!
    £286,000 according to Rodney Marsh:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...ty/9280256.stm
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    (Original post by Drunk Punx)
    They could play for Chatham for all I care, my statement is still true nonetheless; they weren't getting plaid for playing football when they were 8, they are now.
    And as someone already said, travelling from London to Newcastle is hardly a stretch when you consider that musicians have to travel all over the globe if they're doing such a tour.
    Footballers only have to do that if they're in one of the multi-country cups (Champions League et al).
    Lady Gaga wasn't getting paid for singing when she was 8, she is now. All of your arguments can be turned back on you simply by replacing "footballer" with "musician"

    Some of musicians travel internationally, as do some footballers. Lots live in their home nation, in both cases. I think a big difference is some footballers move to another country season-on-season to play for different clubs (when they get transferred), this doesn't really happen in the music industry.
    As I've said lots of times though, I'm not really trying to nit-pick music vs football, but instead look more generally at footballers vs 'other sectors' and why the public seem to think footballers are overpaid but boxers, musicians, golfers, etc are not (when this latter group earn significantly more, at the top level).


    (Original post by LiamTheKook)
    Was I ignorant for assuming that the majority of people realised top musicians get paid more than footballers?
    I didn't know this, no. I thought (from all the media hype about how much footballers are paid) that they would be paid a lot more than musicians and more than other athletes: at the top level, neither of these things are true. Congratulations if you knew this already, sorry for wasting your time

    e:
    (Original post by juanmodesto)
    £286,000 according to Rodney Marsh:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...ty/9280256.stm
    He's not a good source, he is motivated to make Tevez look like he is earning more than he is. I remember listening to that interview when it was released (I didn't listen again just now), but he is not a good source. I honestly don't believe the £286k figure.
    Search google for "tevez salary" and the amounts really do vary. The top result is from The Independent newspaper and quotes £150k/week, and doesn't mention tax. Yours is the only source quoting £286k and I do not think it is a reliable one.
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    (Original post by Drunk Punx)
    my statement is still true nonetheless; they weren't getting plaid for playing football when they were 8, they are now.
    What is your point with the whole, 'they weren't getting paid when they were 8' thing?

    Not many 8 year olds get paid (including most current musicians when they were 8)
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    (Original post by Drunk Punx)
    They could play for Chatham for all I care, my statement is still true nonetheless; they weren't getting plaid for playing football when they were 8, they are now.
    And as someone already said, travelling from London to Newcastle is hardly a stretch when you consider that musicians have to travel all over the globe if they're doing such a tour.
    Footballers only have to do that if they're in one of the multi-country cups (Champions League et al).
    Yeah, they have to travel all over the globe while they're on tour.
    Footballers have to be willing to be bought and sold like commodities, to move permanently or at least for several years between different countries and cultures. It's a lot more difficult for a young Brazilian to leave his family and friends behind to move to a foreign country, with a foreign culture and a language he doesn't speak than it is for Rihanna to sail around in a tour bus with a massive entourage for a few months.
 
 
 
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