30-year-old mum wants to study medicine Watch

Gizmo!
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#61
Report 7 years ago
#61
(Original post by thisismycatch22)
a 50 year old entrant would give 10 years or o of work in medicine before retirement, best case scenario. a school leaver has over 40.
the substantial number who leave in their 30s or before have less, so your argument works both ways. A 40 year old, by contrast, is VERY unlikely to leave their last job unless forced to.

i'm coming into medicine later than most, but this claim seems to be more a part of your endless quest to **** off school leavers who want to do medicine rather than any sort of logical argument. don't make economic arguments unless you're not just pulling numbers out of where the sun doesn't shine
No, i mean the opposite, my point is aimed at ONLY the number of young medics who leave the profession or who come to realise late on that they want to do something other than medicine. If you wish to believe that I am meaning ALL school leavers than that is your perogative entirely of course.

But from my point of view it'd be better for you to argue with the point given, rather than one you want to imagine - then i can reply to you.
0
reply
Gizmo!
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#62
Report 7 years ago
#62
MOreover its important to point out that OMP (original mum poster) will be 35, and wont be able to move to another field of work after this.

personally i think that training ONE PERSON who will be a dead cert for giving 30 years of service is better than training 20% of an intake who are going to part ways with medicine within 10-15 years... a massively larger financial loss.
0
reply
thisismycatch22
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#63
Report 7 years ago
#63
(Original post by Gizmo!)
the substantial number who leave in their 30s or before have less, so your argument works both ways. A 40 year old, by contrast, is VERY unlikely to leave their last job unless forced to.
I ran the numbers for 40 year olds in excel quickly, and 67% of school leavers would have to leave at the age of 35 in order for the numbers to be equal.

And that's assuming every single 40 year old stays in the NHS for 20 years, and ignoring that they'll spend less time as consultants, and ignoring the fact that we're only talking about this because you whined at someone criticising the training of 50 year olds not 40! Do you think that number's accurate? More to the point, did you have any evidence that it was, before you go and consult the university of google, or did you just want to take the snooty (possibly even privately educated!) school leavers down a peg by pointing out a lack of commitment?


No, i mean the opposite, my point is aimed at ONLY the number of young medics who leave the profession or who come to realise late on that they want to do something other than medicine. If you wish to believe that I am meaning ALL school leavers than that is your perogative entirely of course.
Sure it was. I'll exercise that prerogative since you never seem to post anything other than sad attempts at trolling kids who want to do medicine.
1
reply
Cyanohydrin
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#64
Report 7 years ago
#64
(Original post by thisismycatch22)
I ran the numbers for 40 year olds in excel quickly, and 67% of school leavers would have to leave at the age of 35 in order for the numbers to be equal.

And that's assuming every single 40 year old stays in the NHS for 20 years, and ignoring that they'll spend less time as consultants, and ignoring the fact that we're only talking about this because you whined at someone criticising the training of 50 year olds not 40! Do you think that number's accurate? More to the point, did you have any evidence that it was, before you go and consult the university of google, or did you just want to take the snooty (possibly even privately educated!) school leavers down a peg by pointing out a lack of commitment?

Sure it was. I'll exercise that prerogative since you never seem to post anything other than sad attempts at trolling kids who want to do medicine.
lmao - I have just realised this is the same person as on New Media Medicine. For the record I have no problem with graduate entrants and value the experience they bring - but in my opinon training 50 year olds to be doctors at the expense of Joe taxpayer is a total and complete waste of money. These people can't expect to be consultants for anymore than 1, 2 - 3 at a push years...as much as you might hate southern, private educated students who study at Imperial Gizmo - they can be working for 20ish years as a consultant - the time when really all the money spent on them at medical school, as a training grade doctor actually comes to fruition.

We can get away with one or two, but if our entire intake of doctors became 50+ the entire healthcare system would collapse.

Anyway, sorry OP (I don't think you are too old!)
0
reply
Cyanohydrin
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#65
Report 7 years ago
#65
(Original post by Gizmo!)
x
Who is going to spend more years as a consultant, more time training students and junior doctors, doing research? who is going to see more patients?

ten 18 year olds?

ten 50 year olds?

We wouldn't even be able to staff plastic surgery depts etc with your ideas - given their training period is roughly double the time that a 50 year old will even spend in the NHS!
0
reply
polldoll
Badges: 5
Rep:
?
#66
Report 7 years ago
#66
OP
As a 32 year old nurse who is starting medicine in September I encourage you to follow your dream! Yes nursing is an option to you, but the two careers are completely different and should not be gone into as a substitute for the other. Try and get some experience with both medics and nursing if you seriously are considering either. It is important that you have an accurate idea of what you are getting yourself into!

Nursing isn't as easy to get in as you might think, purely because of the number of applicants etc. However currently it remains a funded course and wont cost you anything, and you will even get a bursary to live off. There are a lot of mature students with families on the course, and yes it can be seen as family friendly. But you still have to do your fair share of nights, weekends and starting shifts at 7am. Most courses are 45 weeks per year, with half the time spent on placement doing 37.5 hour weeks. Once you graduate starting salary is approx £21000 but at the moment there are major job shortages and I know of many NQ nurses without jobs as the trusts make their savings by not replacing nurses.

As for medicine, I know what its like to have that as a constant need in your life. I kept coming back to it too! Age doesn't phase me as much, I will be 38 when I start FY1, so 25 years to work as a doctor, well worth the money I will pay to go back to uni! Contact the uni's admissions directly and ask their advice, be it access course or A levels.

I have to agree with the other posters about only limiting yourself to one uni. I made that mistake last year, only applied to Glasgow and then missed the UKCAT so was a wasted application. I applied to 4 unis this year and am now having to move to the other side of the country. Its going to be difficult, but I will commute at the weekends to work and see my family to start with anyway. I had to accept that if medicine is something I really had to do, then I couldnt limit myself to one place. Plus as everyone else says, as FY1 on you have to be prepared to move anywhere. So think of this as a practice! Although you actually are earning by then, and not living off loans..

Anyway, good luck. Follow your dream, give it your best shot, and where there is a will, there is a way!
1
reply
Picture-Perfect
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#67
Report 7 years ago
#67
If it's something you really want to go, then go for it.
I wish you all the best!
0
reply
Gizmo!
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#68
Report 7 years ago
#68
(Original post by Cyanohydrin)
lmao - I have just realised this is the same person as on New Media Medicine. For the record I have no problem with graduate entrants and value the experience they bring - but in my opinon training 50 year olds to be doctors at the expense of Joe taxpayer is a total and complete waste of money. These people can't expect to be consultants for anymore than 1, 2 - 3 at a push years...as much as you might hate southern, private educated students who study at Imperial Gizmo
no one has mentioned it has anything to do with them, sorry had to point out your error.

- they can be working for 20ish years as a consultant - the time when really all the money spent on them at medical school, as a training grade doctor actually comes to fruition.

We can get away with one or two, but if our entire intake of doctors became 50+ the entire healthcare system would collapse.
agreed, that would be idiotic, and its good thing then that no one is arguing for a full intake of 50 year olds.

50 year olds generally dont want to go to med school, maybe enough for 2 or 3 at each med school. arguing against a full intake of 50 year olds is like arguing against having a year of baboons admitted to med school. baboons dont choose med school.
0
reply
Gizmo!
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#69
Report 7 years ago
#69
(Original post by thisismycatch22)
I ran the numbers for 40 year olds in excel quickly, and 67% of school leavers would have to leave at the age of 35 in order for the numbers to be equal.
Sure it was. I'll exercise that prerogative since you never seem to post anything
keep on misreading posts, its all good.


future catchie misreads, refer to this post.
0
reply
thisismycatch22
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#70
Report 7 years ago
#70
(Original post by Gizmo!)
agreed, that would be idiotic, and its good thing then that no one is arguing for a full intake of 50 year olds.I dont think you could find even 5 willing 50+ candiates for each med school, so its ridiculous for Itsmycatch to use that as an argument. I think he decided to say that to save face on the argument that he's lost.
You were saying they are good value as individuals compared to school leavers. They aren't, regardless of whether it's a full year of 40 year olds or just one or two. Unless the attrition rate from medicine is absolutely massive and far far above the 20% often quoted, training the *average* 40 year old means a net loss in working years compared to training an average school leaver. That doesn't change based on how many of them there are in a year; your maths skills need work.

Now what you should have done here is switch and argue "oh working years aren't everyfink macca what matters is life skills" etc, but apparently you're not too bright. There are plenty of good reasons to train mature students. Pretending that 40 year olds are a good investment economically because school leavers drop out from medicine more often is not one of them. It's just bull**** and would require an insultingly massive dropout rate for school leavers to be true.
0
reply
Gizmo!
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#71
Report 7 years ago
#71
(Original post by thisismycatch22)
You were saying they are good value as individuals compared to school leavers. They aren't, regardless of whether it's a full year of 40 year olds or just one or two. Unless the attrition rate ....Pretending that 40 year olds are a good investment economically because school leavers drop out from medicine more often is not one of them. It's just bull**** and would require an insultingly massive dropout rate for school leavers to be true.
you've not med medics in med school who admit they dont really want to practise? really? perhaps you should reserve judgement till you get there.


Now what you should have done here is switch and argue "oh working years aren't everyfink macca what matters is life skills" etc, but apparently you're not too bright.
i would have, old man, but then i didnt want to draw attention to your lack of them.



once you've found that there are enough aged 50+ applicants to our med schools to constitute a significant imbalance in training costs, please return i may not be alive by then to reply, mind you. currently theres only a few such aged applicants for each med school, let alone as students who accepted their offers.
0
reply
Gizmo!
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#72
Report 7 years ago
#72
(Original post by thisismycatch22)
You were saying
hey old dude, never mind the argument that older applicants who have to stay in medicine for 15 years are better bargains than a school leaver who leaves within 3 years of graduating (mentioning no Shibby Robatis), i have a hypothetical question for you, if you dont mind me asking?

if you didnt get in this year, and say,got ill for several years, would you accept an offer you managed to get when you were better, when you were 49?

no ill meant, its just that you are the only wrinkly here i know.
0
reply
Bibushka
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#73
Report 7 years ago
#73
Never say never,it's never late for anything. If you want to and you have conditions to do it,then why not? Go for it,you can be useful still,you are young. One part of your life is done-being mom,the other one can still be taken. I am on your side,so go for it. I wish you luck and happiness.
0
reply
thisismycatch22
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#74
Report 7 years ago
#74
(Original post by Gizmo!)
you've not med medics in med school who admit they dont really want to practise? really? perhaps you should reserve judgement till you get there.
of course i have. i don't think they make up 70% of the population. do you? do all of those who talk a big game about quitting do so?


i would have, old man, but then i didnt want to draw attention to your lack of them.
by all means try to. you don't have any information about them, or my respect, so the odds that i'd mind you criticising them are low.


once you've found that there are enough aged 50+ applicants to our med schools to constitute a significant imbalance in training costs, please return i may not be alive by then to reply, mind you.

currently theres only a few applicants for each med school, let alone students.
and once again you dodge the point which is that you said

"you could, for instance, take on only people who are over 40.

Pretty much all of them would work in medicnie for the next 20 years, and not drop out like a fair chunk of those who joined as school leaver."

That "fair chunk" would have to be 70%, and the "pretty much all of them" would have to be "every single one of them", for that to be true. Or any combination thereof, ie. 80% go/95% stay. Note that you didn't say "if you took on a few people over 40 then the negative impact on training wouldn't be too bad". You implied it would be a positive impact.

This really is pathetic. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done. I'm saying you're wrong by trying to appeal to an economic argument that simply doesn't work.
0
reply
Gizmo!
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#75
Report 7 years ago
#75
(Original post by thisismycatch22)
of course i have. i don't think they make up 70% of the population. do you? do all of those who talk a big game about quitting do so?
lo 70% that sounds impressive but the figures entirely creation, not anyone elses, sorry.

Shibby Robati left medicine after three years, so he puts in seven years less for the NHS than a fifty year old who is forced by the unemployability of their age to remain in the medical profession for 10+ years. 10-3 = 7 years difference.

hmm...i wont empahsise the 7 year difference again, cheers,see quote below.

(Original post by gizmoid)
keep on misreading posts, its all good.


future catchie misreads, refer to this post.
0
reply
thisismycatch22
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#76
Report 7 years ago
#76
(Original post by Gizmo!)
hey old dude, never mind the argument that older applicants who have to stay in medicine for 15 years are better bargains than a school leaver who leaves within 3 years of graduating (mentioning no Shibby Robatis), i have a hypothetical question for you, if you dont mind me asking?

if you didnt get in this year, and say,got ill for several years, would you accept an offer you managed to get when you were better, when you were 49?
Probably not. I'd go back and work in research or pharma. If I did study medicine at that age, I wouldn't claim that I was better value for money, unless something like 90% of school leaver doctors were leaving the NHS within ten years at that point. I might claim that I was better for other reasons, but working years would not be one of them.
0
reply
Gizmo!
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#77
Report 7 years ago
#77
(Original post by thisismycatch22)
Probably not. I'd go back and work in research or pharma. If I did study medicine at that age, I wouldn't claim that I was better value for money, unless something like 90% of school leaver doctors were leaving the NHS within ten years at that point.
probably not, i see. but maybe.

ok but if you did go to med school at 49, and worked in a hospital for 15 years would you be better value for the NHS than Shibby Robati or not?


I might claim that I was better for other reasons
mm i bet u would.
0
reply
thisismycatch22
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#78
Report 7 years ago
#78
(Original post by Gizmo!)
lo 70% that sounds impressive but the figures entirely creation, not anyone elses, sorry.
By all means do your own calculations. It's easy enough to set up in excel. Or you could cite some real figures. Presumably you didn't just pull your original idea out of your arse just to have an ignorant dig at medical applicants (ha, ha)


Shibby left after three years, so he puts in seven years less for the NHS than a fifty year old who is forced by the unemployability of their age to remain in the medical profession for 10 years.

hmm...i wont empahsise the 7 year difference again, cheers.
You take a doctor who is primarily famous for being unusually lazy and negligent as a representative of school leavers, compare them to a fictional perfect 50 year old and you whine when people point out that this is insulting?
0
reply
thisismycatch22
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#79
Report 7 years ago
#79
(Original post by Gizmo!)
probably not, i see. but maybe.

ok but if you did go to med school at 49, and worked in a hospital for 15 years would you be better value for the NHS than Shibby Robati or not?


mm i bet u would.
Probably. Would I be better value for the NHS than the average school leaver? Almost certainly not.
0
reply
Gizmo!
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#80
Report 7 years ago
#80
(Original post by thisismycatch22)
You take a doctor who is primarily famous for being unusually lazy and negligent as a representative of school leavers, compare them to a fictional perfect 50 year old and you whine when people point out that this is insulting?

'perfect 50 year old'.Is you the prophet Muhammed??

Well shibs aint Sai Baba, but he was only negligent in communications on two occasions in 3 years. My first hand experience of working with him was that he was a good doctor. i dont know you but its odd you claiming that you are far superior to him.

Anyways whats your answer? if you like, dont use Shibbs. pick any young doctor who leaves early.
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

University open days

  • Cranfield University
    Cranfield Forensic MSc Programme Open Day Postgraduate
    Thu, 25 Apr '19
  • University of the Arts London
    Open day: MA Footwear and MA Fashion Artefact Postgraduate
    Thu, 25 Apr '19
  • Cardiff Metropolitan University
    Undergraduate Open Day - Llandaff Campus Undergraduate
    Sat, 27 Apr '19

Have you registered to vote?

Yes! (125)
39.56%
No - but I will (17)
5.38%
No - I don't want to (20)
6.33%
No - I can't vote (<18, not in UK, etc) (154)
48.73%

Watched Threads

View All