What exactly is wrong with Communism? Watch

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MTR_10
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#61
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#61
(Original post by Don John)
Communism disincentivises hard work by rewarding everyone, regardless of the quality of their production.
Only if you are driven by materialism or wealth in the first place.
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MTR_10
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#62
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#62
(Original post by Evanesyne)
Very simply put: Spiffying idea on paper, **** real world applications.
Because it hasn't been embraced (voluntarily) by a true superpower.
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Andrii
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#63
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#63
In theory, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. It's pretty damn close to perfection actually.

Human nature however dictates that we will and have failed miserably at applying it to the real world (in most cases anyway) because leaders of communist states are human ergo they're self-interested beings who quickly acquire a taste for power and lose sight of all ideals
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IFondledAGibbon
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#64
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(Original post by Andrii)
In theory, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. It's pretty damn close to perfection actually.

Human nature however dictates that we will and have failed miserably at applying it to the real world (in most cases anyway) because leaders of communist states are human ergo they're self-interested beings who quickly acquire a taste for power and lose sight of all ideals
Then why not have a communist economy run by the people via direct democracy?
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und
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#65
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(Original post by Aj12)
No it does not. Unless you can point out the Gulags in the UK France Norway Sweden ect.
Actually, I'm sure you're well aware of the fact that there were concentration camps in Nazi Germany, as well as ghastly extermination camps. That was a product of fascism which could not exist in communism. The capitalist West relied on it to defeat communist uprisings throughout Europe.
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Andrii
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#66
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(Original post by IFondledAGibbon)
Then why not have a communist economy run by the people via direct democracy?
I see no reason why not, and I'd support it fully. Question is though, why isn't it actually happening at the moment? It seems simple enough...but for it to work you need everyone to be willing to participate and lets face it, there's very few people who'd be willing to renounce their power & wealth for the 'greater good' of society.
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Aj12
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#67
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(Original post by und)
Actually, I'm sure you're well aware of the fact that there were concentration camps in Nazi Germany, as well as ghastly extermination camps. That was a product of fascism which could not exist in communism. The capitalist West relied on it to defeat communist uprisings throughout Europe.
Ok... But gulags concentration camps ect. Are not seen in every single Capitalist country in fact they are barely seen in any. We saw brutal tyranny in every single communist country
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flubadiblam
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#68
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#68
(Original post by MTR_10)
If communism means abolishing the class system in favour of equality, then what exactly is wrong with it? Up until now, communism has always been associated with poverty. What if, a world superpower say America for example (or China in the future) resorts to communism. If Britain joins them (and the Commonwealth countries do as well) and the EU then pretty much over half of the world will live in communism. As this spreads, poverty in Africa will be abolished, extreme wealth will be dissolved into the system and the world will potentially stop fighting over wealth and individual gain. The world will be driven by 'the system' and not the 'individual'. New countries will open themselves up to the rest of the world. Borders will be opened and everyone will live as one.
The only thing wrong with the idea of communism is people. We're too corrupt/greedy for it to ever work
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IFondledAGibbon
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#69
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(Original post by Andrii)
I see no reason why not, and I'd support it fully. Question is though, why isn't it actually happening at the moment? It seems simple enough...but for it to work you need everyone to be willing to participate and lets face it, there's very few people who'd be willing to renounce their power & wealth for the 'greater good' of society.
It isn't happening at the moment because we live in a representative democracy, rather than a direct one. We also live in a capitalist society, so the resulting in uneven distribution of wealth and power means people at the top oppress those at the bottom to maintain their class status.

I think the only solution is gradually raising awareness until a class consciousness is achieved. Then taking the wealth back via revolution.

Obviously, we're a long way from that.
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und
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#70
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#70
(Original post by Aj12)
We saw brutal tyranny in every single communist country
I'm not sure if you could describe the communist takeover of Cuba, for example, as 'brutal tyranny'. The fascist regimes imposed on Cuba by America were far more brutal than the communist one.
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wibletg
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#71
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#71
(Original post by MTR_10)
Only if you are driven by materialism or wealth in the first place.
Which, lets face it, is most of the human race.
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Aj12
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#72
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#72
(Original post by und)
I'm not sure if you could describe the communist takeover of Cuba, for example, as 'brutal tyranny'. The fascist regimes imposed on Cuba by America were far more brutal than the communist one.
Hardly fun if you are one of the 200 in prison as a political prisoner

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10517497
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Andrii
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#73
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(Original post by IFondledAGibbon)
It isn't happening at the moment because we live in a representative democracy, rather than a direct one. We also live in a capitalist society, so the resulting in uneven distribution of wealth and power means people at the top oppress those at the bottom to maintain their class status.

I think the only solution is gradually raising awareness until a class consciousness is achieved. Then taking the wealth back via revolution.

Obviously, we're a long way from that.
That's true, and I agree with the solution. However, as you said, we've still got a long way to go unfortunately, although change is something that people are becoming increasingly restless and determined to obtain.
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und
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#74
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#74
(Original post by Aj12)
Hardly fun if you are one of the 200 in prison as a political prisoner

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10517497
It wasn't long ago that blacks were oppressed in America whilst they had the same rights as anyone else in Cuba, or that thousands were lined up before kangaroo courts in Washington for the 'crime' of holding communistic beliefs, and many executed. People are quick to forget these things. Capitalism is finding itself having to adapt to new circumstances, whereas communism - faced with the same challenge - hasn't been as flexible in the past. We're just going to have to wait and see what the future holds for us.
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Macnoob
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#75
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#75
Simple nothing is wrong with Communism it the human condition that does not allow for a successful communist regime. Using North Korea or Cuba is not valid argument as we have never seen a true communist nation only those that resemble some ideas of a communist nation. Suppressing the natural desires we have as human beings is nearly impossible, look at Thomas Hobbes his reason for the development of governments is solely to avoid the "state of nature" which are our inherent behaviors as human beings
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AntiMonarchist
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#76
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#76
tbh even in theory it does not grab me,why would you want to live in a world where nothing you do matters, because the guy next door does it equally good?
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TurboCretin
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#77
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#77
It's a great idea, but people are selfish.
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noma5
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#78
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#78
Its never fully equal because someone has to be in power.
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planetearth
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#79
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#79
(Original post by Aj12)
Communism conjours images of the soviet union in people's minds even though this is not communism. Despite many attempts it has also never been successful and large scales and always descends into Tyranny.
Absoloute nonsense.

Look at Kerala in India.

It has the highest quality of life and HDI in the whole of India and one of the highest in the whole world, is one of the fairest and richest democratic states in India and has an excellent human rights records.

All this radical change came under the decades long rule of the Communist party there, that has been consistently re-elected there as a result of its popular success.

What was that about Tyranny?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_India
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Craig_D
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#80
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#80
(Original post by TurboCretin)
It's a great idea, but people are selfish.
It's not selfish to dislike it, for the same reason it's not selfish to have goals. I'd be suicidal if I was told by the government where I had to live and how much I will earn. It takes away the point of life, which for me is to strive to improve on the life I was born with. It's like being forced to wear school uniform for the rest of your life, it strangles imagination and individuality; it doesn't liberate, it imprisons.
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