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    (Original post by dbmag9)
    The latest experimental study I heard about was someone with the idea that the universe we percieve is a kind of hologram (in the broad sense of higher-dimensional information on a lower-dimensional surface) by looking for 'mistakes' in reality. But physics isn't about practical applications, and knowing more about the nature of reality is as decent a goal as any.
    This is news to me. Does this field of study have any official name/title, are there papers around on this worth reading? Is it based on actual observation or is it just speculation?

    (Original post by notastampcollector)
    The question, for instance, of what is outside the Universe is a similar one to what existed before the Big Bang. It is related to the Universe and our understanding of it, and so I see it as contained within Physics. If we simply replied with "nothing" and I am not saying this is the answer), then we would need to explain whether we meant nothing within space and time, or meant that even space and time were absent. It is important in science to be able to rigorously define what we mean when we say such things.
    hmmm I've always thought of proper physics as being concerned with every moment from the big bang onwards and not before, as what use is it really to come up with theories that can't ever be tested? We might as well be talking about "God" or religion in that case, it'd just be pure guess-work. Maybe this is naive of me.
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    (Original post by SwingOnTheSpiral88)
    This is news to me. Does this field of study have any official name/title, are there papers around on this worth reading? Is it based on actual observation or is it just speculation?
    This is the article I was thinking about, I think.
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    (Original post by dbmag9)
    This is the article I was thinking about, I think.
    ah, right, I was familiar with the idea of space being quantized into Planck lengths but I don't see what that experiment has got to do with stuff "outside the universe"...
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    See questions like this give you headache if you ponder it for too long. Sorry to veer off topic here but this is just like the meaning of forever. Forever means for all eternity, never ending, going on and on continuing forever. But would it continue even if the universe ceased to exist. When you think about it deeply the concept of forever is pretty ****in scary.

    See even I can't comprehend this.

    Ahhh my brain just melted
    :confused:

    Edit: What idiot negged me?
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    The universe is everything that exists. Meaning that anything "outside" of the universe also exists, and therefore is part of the universe - nothing that exists is outside the universe.

    As for what the universe is "expanding into"...well, first off do we even know if it's expanding? Isn't that just a theory that goes along with the Big Bang theory which isn't even proven but is a way to make certain discussions simpler?
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    (Original post by tite23)
    The universe is everything that exists. Meaning that anything "outside" of the universe also exists, and therefore is part of the universe - nothing that exists is outside the universe.

    As for what the universe is "expanding into"...well, first off do we even know if it's expanding? Isn't that just a theory that goes along with the Big Bang theory which isn't even proven but is a way to make certain discussions simpler?
    Even so, whether you believe in the BB theory, are Religious or believe other ideas. Everything we know and 'understand' must have started from nothing. Whether it was 500 googleplex-million years ago. Or 13.7 billion. 'Nothing' existed at some point.

    For all we know we could be a giant alien scientific experiment. But where did the aliens come from that are testing us? Nothing .

    I fully believe 'nothing' exists/existed. But as other have said, it is a brain melting idea to process. As we currently don't have any better ideas, I am going to stick with the BB/ expanding universe one, until some one comes up with something that makes more sense. Kind of like the belief that 'the world is flat'. Everyone believed that until someone could prove otherwise! Prove me wrong scientists

    What is with people on this forum negging and not owning up to it! Internet cowards. Please enlighten me on how I've said something stupid/offensive/or wrong!
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    (Original post by diving_queen)
    Even so, whether you believe in the BB theory, are Religious or believe other ideas. Everything we know and 'understand' must have started from nothing. Whether it was 500 googleplex-million years ago. Or 13.7 billion. 'Nothing' existed at some point.

    For all we know we could be a giant alien scientific experiment. But where did the aliens come from that are testing us? Nothing .

    I fully believe 'nothing' exists/existed. But as other have said, it is a brain melting idea to process. As we currently don't have any better ideas, I am going to stick with the BB/ expanding universe one, until some one comes up with something that makes more sense. Kind of like the belief that 'the world is flat'. Everyone believed that until someone could prove otherwise! Prove me wrong scientists

    [COLOR="Red"]What is with people on this forum negging and not owning up to it! Internet cowards. [/COLOR] Please enlighten me on how I've said something stupid/offensive/or wrong!
    Yeah I got negged too and nobody - wait, unless it was you?

    See the thing is, if existence exists then it had to always exist. Something cannot come from nothing, because there's nothing to come from. And anyhow how can this nothing exist? By existing, it is something.

    I really enjoy this thread, because it's actually something I've always pondered and is something I've been writing about in my journal lately. Strange coincidence. Good on you for wanting to get to the bottom of this. Same here!
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    (Original post by tite23)
    Yeah I got negged too and nobody - wait, unless it was you?

    See the thing is, if existence exists then it had to always exist. Something cannot come from nothing, because there's nothing to come from. And anyhow how can this nothing exist? By existing, it is something.

    I really enjoy this thread, because it's actually something I've always pondered and is something I've been writing about in my journal lately. Strange coincidence. Good on you for wanting to get to the bottom of this. Same here!
    If I neg I always explain why (And I think I;ve only ever negged like two people...for being genuine ejits).

    Haha I started a journal a year ago and this is one of the entries! I just got fed up of constantly pondering the thought alone....so shoved it on here Its interesting to read peoples opinons!

    Thats what I thought :erm:. but the BB theory makes it sound like everything literally came from nothing....I wonder if theres always been those 'particles' that make up protons/neutrons/electrons etc. And its 'luck' that made them join together to form atoms. But where did they come from?!?! Haha
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    I've not really struggled with the concept - but it was the focus of my Extended Essay (4k words). Specifically I was more looking at the numerical concept of 'zero' but it very quickly spirals into "the everything and nothing" not to mention various religious articles. I also love/studied physics (albeit only at a HL I.B level) so the idea of a vacuum doesn't puzzle me too much :3
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    (Original post by Dezzer)
    i love these sort of debates :P i think space is never ending and has always been there and always will be there. When people talk about what is space expanding in to doesnt make much sense to me, what is different to the space that space is expanding into and the space that surrounds us and what our universe is in? I hope that makes sense and im getting my point across
    Lol if it was always here and never ending. Still you have picture it being "somewhere", as if you're viewing it from the outside. Creeps me out.
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    (Original post by diving_queen)
    If I neg I always explain why (And I think I;ve only ever negged like two people...for being genuine ejits).

    Haha I started a journal a year ago and this is one of the entries! I just got fed up of constantly pondering the thought alone....so shoved it on here Its interesting to read peoples opinons!

    Thats what I thought :erm:. but the BB theory makes it sound like everything literally came from nothing....I wonder if theres always been those 'particles' that make up protons/neutrons/electrons etc. And its 'luck' that made them join together to form atoms. But where did they come from?!?! Haha
    It's really quite strange. Not only how anything exists, but why does anything exist? And then the alternative, nothingness...I mean, is it even possible? Or just impossible to comprehend? Because, like you, I can only see a great vast whiteness, which is still something.

    So saying for a moment everything did come from nothing. No, it's just illogical, because in order for something to have come from nothing, something had to be inside of nothing, in which case nothing was actually something. Maybe existence spontaneously came from itself? But still, that doesn't really answer...anything.
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    (Original post by diving_queen)
    If I neg I always explain why (And I think I;ve only ever negged like two people...for being genuine ejits).

    Haha I started a journal a year ago and this is one of the entries! I just got fed up of constantly pondering the thought alone....so shoved it on here Its interesting to read peoples opinons!

    Thats what I thought :erm:. but the BB theory makes it sound like everything literally came from nothing....I wonder if theres always been those 'particles' that make up protons/neutrons/electrons etc. And its 'luck' that made them join together to form atoms. But where did they come from?!?! Haha
    See this documentary if you have time: (watch from 33 mins onwards for the important point)



    Also this is an interesting comment someone made:

    "if a subatomic particle can blink in and out of existence, than so can a God that exists outside of all space and time.

    quantumpsych 8 hours ago"

    I don't necessarily believe in a "God". It's an interesting point though, but I have my doubts about some of the quantum physics theories.
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    (Original post by Dezzer)
    i dont think there is any such thing as nothing. if something (eg a space rock or something ) was to drift over the barrier of where space 'ends', would that something not be able to get past that barrier?
    I don't think space is 3D shaped. I think if you travelled in a completely straight line in any direction, you'd eventually get back to where you started. Kind of like if we were 2D organisms moving across the surface of a very large, smooth 3D sphere, but obviously one dimension up from that.
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    (Original post by tite23)
    Not only how anything exists, but why does anything exist?
    I agree, this mind ****s me lol.

    I just think why did everything turn out the way it did. Why would we develop life in the universe that has complex design etc.
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    The problem may not be our inability to comprehend nothing. Rather our inability to accept that we comprehend nothing. Somewhere in this lies the fundamental question of what does it mean to comprehend something? Can you comprehend a tea cup? How firm a grasp of the concept tea cup is necessary to comprehend tea cup?
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    Did anyone ever see 'Everything and Nothing: Nothing'? Basically it says that to make nothingness, all you need to do is vacum a box but then (if you use a glass box) you are left with an empty box that you can still see through? This means that light is still passing through the box which means the box is not empty (a bit of a pointless waste of 20 minutes but, hey, they have to make a long enough program don't they?) The program then goes on to say that in the so called "nothingness" tiny particles of matter and antimatter appear both at the same time, the two opposites, for a split second then dissapear again leaving behind it the "nothingness". This all has nothing to do with what I believe.

    I believe you cannot create nothingness because the something around the nothingness would collapse in on it. There is so much something in this world that you can let it out and there is still the same amount of something left. I think that our universe is just a load of something collapsing in on nothingness. Nothingness is a force without a force. It cannot include anything, even time and light! So it is a void, if you were in it you could never get out! It would be weightless. It would be dark but not black as that is a colour which is something. It would be there for ever and never but it would wouldn't be there as that would make it exist. It wouldn't be see through as that would mean light could pass through it. Basically the best way too describe it is... Nothing is nothing. It is impossible to name it, yet. Maby scientists will discover it. I started this message intending to give you an answer but when it came to it it's too hard to explain!
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    (Original post by SwingOnTheSpiral88)
    Please explain. I'm a physics postgrad and I don't see the connection. It just seems like one of these daft airy-fairy questions people just ask for the hell of it, like "does existence exist" or "what's the meaning of life" or whatever.
    The connection is very relevant. And physics is but an extension of philosophy! Consider this, for instance: let us define our present position in time as t=1. From memories of the recent past, we have deduced that time flows forward. However, does the timeline beyond t=1 already exist (i.e. t=2), or is it being created as we move through it?
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    (Original post by tite23)
    The universe is everything that exists. Meaning that anything "outside" of the universe also exists, and therefore is part of the universe - nothing that exists is outside the universe.
    We define something that exists as something that occupies a position in space and time. So by your second premise, in which space and time does anything outside of the universe exist in?

    As for what the universe is "expanding into"...well, first off do we even know if it's expanding? Isn't that just a theory that goes along with the Big Bang theory which isn't even proven but is a way to make certain discussions simpler?
    There is a large amount of experimental data (primarily the cosmic microwave background radiation and expansion of the universe) that suggests space and time (including some of the constituents of matter) came into existence some 13-18 billion years ago. As for the expansion of the universe, that was discovered by Edwin Hubble in 1929; he observed that the wavelengths of light emitted from distant galaxies was being stretched (shifted towards the red end of the spectrum) due to the space expanding or stretching in between the galaxies (the galaxies themselves aren't actually moving).

    It has also been suggested, that space is expanding into itself. :eek4:
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    nothing + nothing = nothing
    nothing - nothing = nothing
    nothing * nothing = nothing
    nothing / nothing = nothing

    nothing / something = nothing
    something / nothing = ???

    if someone can solve the last equation, we will understand the concept of nothing

    i think that "nothing" or "zero" represent something deeply
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    About the Universe expanding: I got the impression it was just supposed to be stretching out. Okay, we don't know whether the Universe is truly finite, or cyclic, or whatever, but [this idea from something I read somewhere] if you think about it as the surface of a balloon, and the expansion as inflation of the balloon, it seems reasonable to me. :dontknow:

    About the concept of Nothing: I'm not sure has any existence in reality, per se; I think it only exists in models of the real world and in mathematics. Asking what nothing is appears to be a bit like asking someone what it means for something to exist. Or perhaps what it means for something to be alive. There are plenty of things with names that we have yet to puzzle out the meaning of, and there always will be, since logic, the tool by which we reason every argument, requires a foundation of assumptions to build upon.
 
 
 
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