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    I wish people wouldn't make such a big deal out of this.
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    I just feel sorry for this woman, she's just so stupid. When you're spouting such ignorant, ridiculous rubbish for everyone to hear it's a pretty pathetic.

    I don't agree with that letter though, as an ethnic minority myself I can see we are not the backbone of England (mainly because we are a MINORITY).

    Also, I don't get the whole blame game of "oh the British Empire f***** my country up the a*** so now we have to come live here". Yes, the British may have colonised numerous countries and obviously the indigenous were not happy with that, but why should the Britons of today apologise? You all didn't go and invade the countries! Will everyone who belongs to an ethnicity that once owned an empire apologise for what their ancestors did yonks ago? Don't think so. People just need to stop repeatedly blaming others for whatever's going on- if you're so bothered do something about it! Ethnic minorities continually complain we're unfairly discriminated against, and maybe we are in some instances but what people always forget is that we have pretty much the same rights and opportunities as the English, and that's something we should always bear in mind.

    When I was in school in year 7, a girl once called me a p**i. I wasn't actually offended, as I'm not Pakistani I just laughed at her for being ignorant. When I went home and told my mum what had happened she told me something to me that has always stuck with me; that although some stupid racist people may think they're better than me just because of my skin colour, that means absolutely nothing because they're not. Racism will bother you more if you feel insecure in yourself about where you come from.
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    (Original post by Ayshizzle)
    I just feel sorry for this woman, she's just so stupid. When you're spouting such ignorant, ridiculous rubbish for everyone to hear it's a pretty pathetic.

    I don't agree with that letter though, as an ethnic minority myself I can see we are not the backbone of England (mainly because we are a MINORITY).

    Also, I don't get the whole blame game of "oh the British Empire f***** my country up the a*** so now we have to come live here". Yes, the British may have colonised numerous countries and obviously the indigenous were not happy with that, but why should the Britons of today apologise? You all didn't go and invade the countries! Will everyone who belongs to an ethnicity that once owned an empire apologise for what their ancestors did yonks ago? Don't think so. People just need to stop repeatedly blaming others for whatever's going on- if you're so bothered do something about it! Ethnic minorities continually complain we're unfairly discriminated against, and maybe we are in some instances but what people always forget is that we have pretty much the same rights and opportunities as the English, and that's something we should always bear in mind.

    When I was in school in year 7, a girl once called me a p**i. I wasn't actually offended, as I'm not Pakistani I just laughed at her for being ignorant. When I went home and told my mum what had happened she told me something to me that has always stuck with me; that although some stupid racist people may think they're better than me just because of my skin colour, that means absolutely nothing because they're not. Racism will bother you more if you feel insecure in yourself about where you come from.
    You can speak for yourself. The Raj oppressed my gradparents and those before them. My country was wealthy. It was the land of diamonds, spices etc. Nobody died of starvation before the British came. Please take some history lessons and you'll discover that India was the jewel in Queen Victoria's and the empire's crown Britain would not be where it is today if it hadn't been for its imperialist occuppation of all those colonies, particularly India. They scrounged off us for centuries.
    I'm not saying I'm here to steal it all back and we should be allowed to be bums and scrounge off the state, but we cant ignore history. Britain is ours as much as thiers, and many of our ancestors fought in the World Wars.

    I think you're trying to please the kuffar more than anything else with that kind of attitude.
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    (Original post by Ayshizzle)
    I just feel sorry for this woman, she's just so stupid. When you're spouting such ignorant, ridiculous rubbish for everyone to hear it's a pretty pathetic.

    I don't agree with that letter though, as an ethnic minority myself I can see we are not the backbone of England (mainly because we are a MINORITY).

    Also, I don't get the whole blame game of "oh the British Empire f***** my country up the a*** so now we have to come live here". Yes, the British may have colonised numerous countries and obviously the indigenous were not happy with that, but why should the Britons of today apologise? You all didn't go and invade the countries! Will everyone who belongs to an ethnicity that once owned an empire apologise for what their ancestors did yonks ago? Don't think so. People just need to stop repeatedly blaming others for whatever's going on- if you're so bothered do something about it! Ethnic minorities continually complain we're unfairly discriminated against, and maybe we are in some instances but what people always forget is that we have pretty much the same rights and opportunities as the English, and that's something we should always bear in mind.

    When I was in school in year 7, a girl once called me a p**i. I wasn't actually offended, as I'm not Pakistani I just laughed at her for being ignorant. When I went home and told my mum what had happened she told me something to me that has always stuck with me; that although some stupid racist people may think they're better than me just because of my skin colour, that means absolutely nothing because they're not. Racism will bother you more if you feel insecure in yourself about where you come from.
    You may think of yourself as the backbone of the nation, but who the hell are you to speak for other ethnic minorities
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    I didnt even click the link but negged you OP
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    (Original post by wheelspin)
    You can speak for yourself. The Raj oppressed my gradparents and those before them. My country was wealthy. It was the land of diamonds, spices etc. Nobody died of starvation before the British came. Please take some history lessons and you'll discover that India was the jewel in Queen Victoria's and the empire's crown Britain would not be where it is today if it hadn't been for its imperialist occuppation of all those colonies, particularly India. They scrounged off us for centuries.
    I'm not saying I'm here to steal it all back and we should be allowed to be bums and scrounge off the state, but we cant ignore history. Britain is ours as much as thiers, and many of our ancestors fought in the World Wars.

    I think you're trying to please the kuffar more than anything else with that kind of attitude.
    Firstly, I don't think of people as "kuffar" or whatever as i'm not Muslim. I believe in equality, and that's why I have the opinions I have, like it or not.
    Did I say Britain isn't ours? No. Maybe you should re- read my post. What I said is that people should stop blaming eachother and do something about it. You want to try and stop racism? Become someone people can respect and take control. There's too many of us Asians walking around with a chip on our shoulders and finding any possible excuse we can to blame the whites for whatever. Why aren't you making an attempt to change people's attitudes?
    Everyone's as bad as eachother, I'm just sick of the whinging.

    (Original post by wheelspin)
    You may think of yourself as the backbone of the nation, but who the hell are you to speak for other ethnic minorities
    When did I say I'm the backbone? Can you even read?
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    (Original post by wheelspin)
    We cant ignore history. Britain is ours as much as thiers, and many of our ancestors fought in the World Wars.
    Unfortunately, being colonised or being a foreign conscript does not automatically give subsequent generations citizenship rights.
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    (Original post by Craig_D)
    As I have said in other posts, I have nothing against her having opinions nor her (legally) expressing them however she feels fit. What I object to is her opinions getting a disproportionate hearing in society.
    legally ... object ... disporoprtionate ... oxygen of publicity ... she doesn't deserve to have her vile opinions so widely heard.

    Who decides there should be a legal limit and where it is and who will be made to conform to it? Who decides what's disproportionate (and whether it isn't in fact the case that the hostile reaction to her comments is what's disproportionate and has driven the controversy into the spotlight)? Who decides what views and people deserve to be heard? Who decides which opinions should be starved of oxygen? Clearly you think you should decide.

    Like I said, there speaks the natural thought -cop, censor, moderator.
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    The first few sentences sound like the start of a SAW movie.
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    (Original post by Roshniroxy)
    Native people, immigrant people, bla bla bla if I call you racist then people on TSR would have a heart attack, but I am sure as hell going to stay you're an idiot. Britain is no where near colonised what so ever.
    'Colony' in modern application according to the ultimate objective arbiter:

    a. A settlement in a new country; a body of people who settle in a new locality, forming a community subject to or connected with their parent state; the community so formed, consisting of the original settlers and their descendants and successors, as long as the connection with the parent state is kept up.

    A number of people of a particular nationality residing in a foreign city or country (especially in one quarter or district).

    http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/36547?...9&result=1#eid
    Do you deny that colonies of Indians, Pakistanis, etc., all exist in England?

    From the Encyclopedia of Diasporas: Immigrant and Refugee Cultures Around the World, Eds. Melvin Ember, Carol R. Ember and Ian Skoggard (Springer, New York and HRAF, Yale, 2005):

    [South Asian Diaspora, p.293]

    The South Asian population is clustered in pockets and sharply segmented along religious and ethnic lines in London, southeast England, and the West Midlands in a region known as the ‘Asian corridor.’ Thus, Wembley has a greater concentration of Gujarati Hindus, while Southall is largely Sikh. Bradford and Birmingham are known for the Pakistani and Bangladeshi Muslim concentrations. Entire Sikh and Gujarati villages are imported into England replete with local politics. South Asians in Britain resist cultural homogenization and even maintain caste affiliations through their marriage traditions. Religion is the central organizing force for many British South Asians, with mosques, gurdwaras (Sikh places of worship), and temples functioning not only as centers of social life, but also of political protest. This adherence to religious and cultural identity and homeland politics has been a double-edged sword, keeping South Asians ghettoized on one hand, but also helping them cope with the stresses of living in a racist, European-dominated society. Racism is a daily reality in Britain, reinforced and institutionalized by entrenched patterns of residential accommodation and employment practices.
    Incidentally, here is evidence of real institutional racism, where academics end this entry by accusing the majority of 'racism' for allegedly behaving precisely as they describe the minorities as doing. Except of course the minorities are doing it in our country only decades after kicking us out of theirs -- another double standard defended by the academic mainstream.

    And also it's nice to have a scholarly reference for the claim that 'whole villages' of these colonists have 'been imported' into England.
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    Well, she said, "You’re in my country now, talk my language. Don't f****** talk your ****, talk my language. You ****, ****' Ummm didn't David Blunkett get into trouble for suggesting that foreign people in this country should speak English in public? He iterated that what they did in their homes was up to them. May be the failure to speak the language of the host country is seen as offensive as it can be seen as a rejection of integration itself. I'm not condoning her stupidity but some people don't think multiculturalism works, others view assimilation as the alternative.

    (Original post by nmds)
    legally ... object ... disporoprtionate ... oxygen of publicity ... she doesn't deserve to have her vile opinions so widely heard.

    Who decides there should be a legal limit and where it is and who will be made to conform to it? Who decides what's disproportionate (and whether it isn't in fact the case that the hostile reaction to her comments is what's disproportionate and has driven the controversy into the spotlight)? Who decides what views and people deserve to be heard? Who decides which opinions should be starved of oxygen? Clearly you think you should decide.

    Like I said, there speaks the natural thought -cop, censor, moderator.
    Some people on here will say she should be legally entitled to air those views but no doubt some will change their mind if the location was Tottenham or Hackney and she was ranting about the Orthodox Jews.
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    I'm not condoning her stupidity
    Stupidity isn't a moral affair, we can't help our genetics and our genetic endowments largely direct our environmental choices.

    but some people don't think multiculturalism works, others view assimilation as the alternative.
    Multiculturalism was the silicone coating to the hard to swallow pill of invasion. Assimilation following invasion is the hard to swallow pill of genocide. I think they're likely to use force this time round -- just ram it down our throats.
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    I'm sure she will read that in her prison cell
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    (Original post by nmds)
    legally ... object ... disporoprtionate ... oxygen of publicity ... she doesn't deserve to have her vile opinions so widely heard.

    Who decides there should be a legal limit and where it is and who will be made to conform to it? Who decides what's disproportionate (and whether it isn't in fact the case that the hostile reaction to her comments is what's disproportionate and has driven the controversy into the spotlight)? Who decides what views and people deserve to be heard? Who decides which opinions should be starved of oxygen? Clearly you think you should decide.

    Like I said, there speaks the natural thought -cop, censor, moderator.
    Nobody should decide, because I'm talking about ideals here, ideals which cannot practically be enforced; let me make this very clear for you: I don't think anything should actually be done. That doesn't stop me reflecting on an ideal. Rather than being so arsy, go through my posts and find one where I said that action should be taken? I didn't, I used the word 'deserve', it's possible to object to something whilst still accepting that nothing can be done in practice, you know.

    On the legal limit, a judge should decide, but that's only in cases where threatening language is used (even the Declaration on Human Rights accounts for that in the article on free speech). That said, I do not think this woman was being threatening, she didn't deserve to be arrested, no.
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    (Original post by wheelspin)
    You may think of yourself as the backbone of the nation, but who the hell are you to speak for other ethnic minorities
    if you'll read the previous post again she actually says that she's not the backbone of the nation.....
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    (Original post by Craig_D)
    Nobody should decide
    Not compatible with your defence of free speech within legal limits -- as you later confirm,
    a judge should decide
    Don't ***** at me if you can't deliver a coherent argument.

    And the other comments of yours that I quoted show how you'd rather keep an opinion out of the debate than answer to it. If such a tendency doesn't indicate your suitability for a thought-cop role, what would?
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    (Original post by lulubel)
    the letter is a standard anti white diatribe. what annoys me is when people are racist but try and justify it because of other racism. makes no sense to me. if people are truly anti racist, then racism would not turn them into racists.

    the letter writer is a racist. the worst kind of racist in fact, a racist who justifies her racism through racism.
    Say whaaaaaaaat?
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    (Original post by middlj)
    I hate how its fashionable to be anti Britain at the moment.
    Its always been fashionable. Were not a particularly optimistic country...
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    not that i condone what she did, but that letter's all vey condescending and high horse.
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    (Original post by nmds)
    Not compatible with your defence of free speech within legal limits -- as you later confirm,


    Don't ***** at me if you can't deliver a coherent argument.

    And the other comments of yours that I quoted show how you'd rather keep an opinion out of the debate than answer to it. If such a tendency doesn't indicate your suitability for a thought-cop role, what would?
    Yes, it is completely compatible:

    Regarding: "Who decides there should be a legal limit and where it is and who will be made to conform to it?"
    If a law is necessary, the government should (just like they decide whether there should be a legal limit on anything); if they break the single recommendation which I shall go into in a second, a judge should decide (which is why I said "on the legal limit"), everything else should be legal (which is why I said on everything else "nobody should decide").

    I believe in freedom of expression in all instances with a single exception, which is where people are being incited to cause violence. Seeing as you are so in favour of freedom of speech in all instances, allow me to ask you a question, do you think Abu Hamza should have been allowed to stand in a UK street preaching that non-Muslims should be executed? Be honest, you would happily allow him to do that? So, are you a "thought-cop" too? There's no room for being hypocritical here, if non-Muslims stand in the street suggesting that Muslims should be murdered, then they should be carted off to the courts too. Are you genuinely OK with a fatwa being circulated publicly that calls for your death? My suggestion is perfectly in keeping with the European Convention on Human Rights:
    Article 10 – Freedom of expression


    1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.

    2. The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.

    (My emphasis)

    However, let's turn this back to Emma West, as I have already said, she didn't encourage the use of violence, so did not do anything that I think should be illegal. She merely expressed her opinion, I'm fine with her doing that. As I originally said, in an ideal world, I wish nobody's opinion would be heard louder than anyone else (as hers currently is), but - as I said - that is simply an ideal. I would not recommend a law which tried to regulate such a thing. There's a massive difference between having an ideal and believing that action must be taken to achieve that ideal. You may tell me that in your ideal world you would own all the chocolate in existence, but that doesn't mean I would assume you have a genuine master plan to go about accumulating all of it, that would be silly. We can accept that most ideals are unrealistic, not all ideals must be pursued, or even be achievable.

    I'm fully coherent, my line is clear; to sum it up in one paragraph: All expression should be legal except where violence is called for. Regarding Emma West, I would not silence her, never in a million years, it would be unfair and unjustifiable; but in my ideal world nobody would have her opinion. And I have freedom of expression to state what my ideal world would be like ... unless you don't agree with me having freedom of speech? Now that would be ironic!
 
 
 
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