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    (Original post by WokSz)
    No, I do not think that it should. However, I just feel that allowing Israel to join might make an already bad situation worse.

    You people seem to be missing the point of what I'm trying to say. I'm not saying that by Israel joining things will suddenly worsen. It's just that it will make a bad situation worse.
    It's one thing to not want to provoke great powers (or potential great powers) like China, India, and Russia, but it's quite another to alter one's foreign policy just to appease universally hated states like Syria and Iran, who really don't have the power to do harm the West in any meaningful way.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Israel is as much of European origin as the US and Canada...

    You said it...why have they dispelled a whole population who have their ancestory in the piece of land they are fighting for?
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    (Original post by JonathanH)
    And what better way to combat Iran's threat than actively saying that you will not support their nuclear aspirations or desire for Israel to be eliminated? Once again, Iran needs no excuses to attack the West, it already claims to have thousands of bombers lined up to attack British targets should there be action against its nuclear capabilities.
    Link for that?

    This thread seems to be about remodelling NATO to face something other than the Soviet bloc. Isn't that the final nail in the coffin of any perception of it as anything other than an exclusive club for Westerners?
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    (Original post by ThornsnRoses)
    You said it...why have they dispelled a whole population who have their ancestory in the piece of land they are fighting for?
    :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Person)
    I'd love people to expand on this so called threat from Iran though.
    Allow me; an uncontained, unstable, Islamo-fascist cabal that suppresses and humiliates its own citizens via a "foreign" plague, whilst illustrating its inexorable desire to rid the world of country and its people - I think that constitutes a threat.
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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    Link for that?
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...136638,00.html
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    (Original post by Byronic)
    Allow me; an uncontained, unstable, Islamo-fascist cabal that suppresses and humiliates its own citizens via a "foreign" plague, whilst illustrating its inexorable desire to rid the world of country and its people - I think that constitutes a threat.
    And the best way to counter that threat lies in your own words. "Unstable". President I'mADinnerJacket is not as wildly popular as people think. Yes, he gets cheers reminiscent of Nazi rallies when he sticks to fingers up to the West, over and over again, but the Iranian equivalent of the Lords are uneasy about him. They think he's too aggressive. I'll just repeat that for emphasis. This is the mad mullahs who are worried about him being too much of a wacko.

    Add to that the fact that not everyone in Iran does actually support him as much as news reports (both internal Iranian and Western) would suggest, and I think you'll find that toppling him might be the best option.

    The Falklands Factor will almost certainly come into play in Mahmoud's favour if his country are EDIT: is on the receiving end of Western military action. So a war/surgical strikes might destroy our best chance of getting the Iranians to kick him out themselves.
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    Oh, suicide bombers. Yes, I can well believe that. Shows my age that I immediately thought Iran had amassed a mighty fleet of actual bombers. You know, ones that fly, like the word used to mean.

    Honestly. "Please tick here if you would rather suicide-bomb Israelis; tick here for Americans". It's like some kind of sick joke. Even in the war I bet there wasn't some SS officer on a little desk handing out forms with "Tick here if you vish to be sent to zer Vestern Front, tick here if you vish to be sent to Stalingrad."
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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    And the best way to counter that threat lies in your own words. "Unstable". President I'mADinnerJacket is not as wildly popular as people think. Yes, he gets cheers reminiscent of Nazi rallies when he sticks to fingers up to the West, over and over again, but the Iranian equivalent of the Lords are uneasy about him. They think he's too aggressive. I'll just repeat that for emphasis. This is the mad mullahs who are worried about him being too much of a wacko.
    Most of the mullahs might think he's too aggressive (though they have the same goals as him), but the real leader of Iran has explicitly supported all of Ahmadinejad's views. He has also said many of the same things in the past. Now he could be just doing it for show, or he might not. Is there a reason why we shouldn't assume and prepare for the worst?

    Add to that the fact that not everyone in Iran does actually support him as much as news reports (both internal Iranian and Western) would suggest, and I think you'll find that toppling him might be the best option.
    They support him enough to elect him by an overwhelming majority.

    The Falklands Factor will almost certainly come into play in Mahmoud's favour if his country are on the receiving end of Western military action. So a war/surgical strikes might destroy our best chance of getting the Iranians to kick him out themselves.
    The reform movement in Iran is dead. Even if he gets kicked out, he'd be replaced by someone just like him (though perhaps someone who's more skilled at not looking like an idiot). The chance of the Iranians kicking out the ayatollahs in the foreseeable future is nil.
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    I admit I hadn't actually thought about who'd replace him. Certainly it wouldn't be a matter of totally erasing the Islamic Republic in favour of, I don't know, secularism.

    I don't think you can really use Iranian governmental statistics to claim anything about Mahmoud's popularity. It's not the most transparent, free or fair democracy in the world.

    Whether we should "prepare for the worst" or not depends very much on what you actually mean by that phrase. I'm certainly not advocating sitting here doing nothing while Iran struts around on the world stage.
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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    Oh, suicide bombers. Yes, I can well believe that. Shows my age that I immediately thought Iran had amassed a mighty fleet of actual bombers. You know, ones that fly, like the word used to mean.
    Not even the US has thousands of actual bombers, nevermind Iran.
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    Wouldn't stop Iran claiming it, though.
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    True, true.
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    That reminds me of the story from the Yom Kippur war. Apparently the Arabs kept on claiming that they were shooting down something like ten times more Israeli aircraft than they actually did. Since Israel was badly outarmed, the US was replacing every Israeli aircraft that was shot down. As the Arabs wouldn't stop with their propaganda, Nixon said that he would send Israel the amount of planes that the Arabs claimed they shot down.
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    Ah yes, the Arabs and their propaganda. What about the Six Day War? "Come on in Jordan, we're winning, we're winning!" Whoops...
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    israel should be able to join but we do need to see a sense of maturity about israel on issues such as nuclear weapons how would other NATO members feel if israel one of the smallest members where to have nuclear weapons and on par with britian and france !!!

    also israel would need to prove a responsible country and state behaving as a international country not as an extension of the US
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    "(Israel) for all its faults, is the only country in that barren region that you or I, or any feminist, atheist, homosexual or trade unionist could bear to live under"

    Julie Burchill, The Guardian, November 29, 2003

    something to think about...
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    (Original post by DanBan)
    "(Israel) for all its faults, is the only country in that barren region that you or I, or any feminist, atheist, homosexual or trade unionist could bear to live under"

    Julie Burchill, The Guardian, November 29, 2003

    something to think about...
    Excellent post!
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    What a mistake letting such a dangerous country join NATO, it would legitimise every illegal action Israel is currently going. And Iran would be wrong to nuke israel, if the Zionist idiots would think that one of Islam’s holiest sites is in Jerusalem, Dome of the Rock as well as countless other Mosques and holy sites and birth place of jesus!
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    (Original post by sayed_samed)
    What a mistake letting such a dangerous country join NATO, it would legitimise every illegal action Israel is currently going. And Iran would be wrong to nuke israel, if the Zionist idiots would think that one of Islam’s holiest sites is in Jerusalem, Dome of the Rock as well as countless other Mosques and holy sites and birth place of jesus!
    Is that why the innocent Palestinians have attempted to carry out hundreds of suicide bombings in Jerusalem?
 
 
 
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