Why is there atheism? Watch

cowsforsale
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#61
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#61
I don't think this should be isolated as a religious thing, but should include every sensational claim in society ranging from stuff like the anti-vaccine folk, the paranormal, global warming, politics, health etc...

Why are we skeptical is a more relevant question, to which Michael Shermer writes a good piece about.

You see children questioning everything around them. It's quite sad that folks lose their interest in skepticism as they age.
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erniiee
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#62
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#62
More importantly, why is there religion?
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fairisle13
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#63
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#63
(Original post by TheAdrianoo789)
It would definately make more logical sense that if there isn't proof for something then it isn't there. But religious people have their scriptures which they believe to be fact. Again we can't disproove their truth. There are many different scenarios we could make up as to how these scriptures lack divine origin, but we can't be sure. So perhaps you could say it comes down to argueing on the validity of a book, in which religion holds it to be accurate and valid, which makes perfect sense, but atheistm rejects it.
Why? It may well be that the whole point is that we can never know, that is is beyond our power to know, at least at the present moment.
Would you hold doubt in the origins of religious scripture as proof for the non-existence of God then? If so, you are surely the same as those who choose to believe despite the doubt, because doubt implies that there is a possibility you could be wrong.
I don't believe that religious people necessarily hold scripture as fact at all either, most recognise that they are open to human error, having been written by a human hand. This is certaintly something that I was taught when I went to Catholic school, I was by no means told to take the Bible at face value, what you are talking about is fanaticism. There are a lot of liberal theists who may not believe in scripture either, it is possible to have belief in a God or creator without believing that the Bible or any other religious scripture is in anyway connected with it.
You do miss the point by comparing atheist beliefs exclusively to theism though, again, you are not allowing for another viewpoint that we cannot know and that we could accept that.
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ConanAndrews
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#64
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#64
(Original post by Linnerzx)
This sort of offends me! I just clicked on it and looked at 'activities' and saw something about converting a pope? How absolutely ridiculous. Some atheists can be just as bad as mindless Christians who go forcing their religion on to other people in the street or on their own doorsteps. I don't see why people can't be left to make their own decisions.



Seriously, what? Are you kidding me? You think some people would go against their supposed belief in God to be 'different' and 'annoying'? Please, I respect all religions, just not people who think that their religion is the only one plausible. There are some people here sharing their ideas, who show some form of IQ. You are not one of them. Leaving atheist church aside, because it seems like an awful idea to me, have you even given thought to an atheist's way of thinking?

I Actually know some atheists who have told me they do it to annoy people just so they can argue...you don't know every Atheist on the planet, that's why i said some, because i know who fall into my description. I have also met some strong opinionated one's so i do know their way of thinking, your just putting the group of Atheism together thinking they all think the same, when like in any belief, everyone's view is different. (Everyone has different views within a Belief). Your just being narrow minded. IQ? you have none of it.
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Sheldor
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#65
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#65
(Original post by ConanAndrews)
I see all the comments in which people post, saying not everyone is as gullible to believe in religion. Yous should realize that Atheism is a form of Religion.

"Religion is an organized collection of belief systems, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to spirituality and, sometimes, to moral values".
-From good old Wikipedia

I think Atheism falls in line with that explanation?...just goes to show that Atheists don't even know what they follow or what they believe in.

Gullible? Ha! I did laugh quite hard at that. :lol:
But apart from their lack of belief in a deity, atheists share no culture, world views, morality or spirituality.

(Original post by fairisle13)
Personally, I don't think it is logical to say that just because there is no proof something doesn't exist, especially when scientific theories are just that, theory - not proven fact. We have no conclusive proof that life exists on other planets in the universe, does this mean we should say that life on other planets does not exist?
The problem I have with atheism is that it does not allow for the possibility of the existence of a God or creator.
There's a big difference between the regular use of the word theory and scientific theory. A scientific theory is one that has been "repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment"-Wikipedia. This means it is a rational examimation of the facts to observe and experiment and find correlations and causations to form scientific theories. The regular use of the word theory is akin to scientific hypothesise. I don't know if you've heard of the peer review system, which is how theories are further validated?


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Supertoaster
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#66
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#66
(Original post by DanLorenzo)
Me telling myself that I have big muscles doesnt mean that I have big muscles. Therefore something telling itself that it exists doesnt provide proof for its own existence.
Telling yourself doesn't make it real (like religion) but being able to see and feel them does.
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fairisle13
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#67
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#67
(Original post by Sheldor)
But apart from their lack of belief in a deity, atheists share no culture, world views, morality or spirituality.



There's a big difference between the regular use of the word theory and scientific theory. A scientific theory is one that has been "repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment"-Wikipedia. This means it is a rational examimation of the facts to observe and experiment and find correlations and causations to form scientific theories. The regular use of the word theory is akin to scientific hypothesise. I don't know if you've heard of the peer review system, which is how theories are further validated?


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I am well aware that scientific theory is not plucked out of the air. What I was saying is, while there may be more confidence in its validity, it is NOT a certainty. Scientific theory is still theory in that it has not been conclusively proven and in fact there is a possibility that it could be completely incorrect as we come to learn more and develop more theories.
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fairisle13
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#68
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#68
(Original post by Sam_a225)
Telling yourself doesn't make it real (like religion) but being able to see and feel them does.
What you are saying is that if you can't experience something then it isn't real, you can't 'experience' a deity. The whole point is that it is something we cannot see or feel that may or may not be there, but saying it isn't there because you can't see or feel it is no more logical than your example (religion).
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CJKay
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#69
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#69
(Original post by fairisle13)
I was looking at this more from an agnostic vs. atheism standpoint, whereby 'problem' I meant the reason why I could never be an atheist myself. It just seems to me like atheism is much like religion in that people have these set views that don't allow for any change.
I'll give you an example; we were having a debate about intelligent design at my sixth form where everyone except me in the class was an atheist, they were not even willing to listen to my views on how science and religion do not necessarily have to be two completely seperate entities. It's this close-minded attitude that I find astonishing by people who claim to be logical free-thinkers.
Because the existence of aliens is probable and quite likely considering the sheer vastness of the universe, though far from guaranteed and I would not strongly disagree with somebody that believes they don't exist, but the existence of a deity is more of a concept (what would its properties be? Does it "exist"? Is it a natural entity?). We know more about the big bang than we would know about a universal entity, therefore we can't, and won't, make any assertions about it because to do so would be to create a God of the gaps. e.g. "I don't know how the universe started, so I will attribute it to a (super)natural being until I find out how it did"
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TurboCretin
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#70
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#70
(Original post by fairisle13)
Like I said before, Atheism does not allow for the possibility of existence of God, whether it's because of non-belief or belief is irrelevant. If you argue that Atheists do indeed allow for this possibility than you're wrong, because that wouldn't be Atheism.
Is a lack of belief in there being a peanut under the sofa I'm sitting on in incompatible with the possibility of its existence? No, of course it isn't. Perhaps I haven't meditated on the notion of the peanut's existence, or perhaps I think it fairly unlikely as I've never seen anyone eat peanuts on this sofa. 'Not-believing' in something is not the same as believing that that something doesn't exist. You have to have somewhat of a reason to hold that something doesn't exist - for the converse, you don't.

You should look up agnostic atheism.
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Farm_Ecology
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#71
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(Original post by fairisle13)
I am well aware that scientific theory is not plucked out of the air. What I was saying is, while there may be more confidence in its validity, it is NOT a certainty. Scientific theory is still theory in that it has not been conclusively proven and in fact there is a possibility that it could be completely incorrect as we come to learn more and develop more theories.
The problem is, that a deity has never been proven to begin with. Some have had evidence towards them, which has been defeated as we learn more about the world which deny the claims made by said deity. A deity may well be proven later, but to an atheist, there is no reason to entertain it as a realistic possibility.
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Supertoaster
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#72
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(Original post by fairisle13)
What you are saying is that if you can't experience something then it isn't real, you can't 'experience' a deity. The whole point is that it is something we cannot see or feel that may or may not be there, but saying it isn't there because you can't see or feel it is no more logical than your example (religion).
It was aimed for evidence, not experience, maybe wrong example
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TurboCretin
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#73
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(Original post by fairisle13)
What you are saying is that if you can't experience something then it isn't real, you can't 'experience' a deity. The whole point is that it is something we cannot see or feel that may or may not be there, but saying it isn't there because you can't see or feel it is no more logical than your example (religion).
I guess Moses was either a liar or a madman then.
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Mathlover123
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#74
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#74
(Original post by TurboCretin)
I guess Moses was either a liar or a madman then.
Or he didn't exist... Give us empirical proof outside of your bible.
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Sheldor
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#75
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(Original post by fairisle13)
I am well aware that scientific theory is not plucked out of the air. What I was saying is, while there may be more confidence in its validity, it is NOT a certainty. Scientific theory is still theory in that it has not been conclusively proven and in fact there is a possibility that it could be completely incorrect as we come to learn more and develop more theories.
Well, you could say the same about everything. Why not go with the most probable answer? You can't even be certain that we exist, or that other people do, but you look at the most probable answer and work on the assumption it's correct.

It makes more sense to work on the most probable solution than to accept every proposed hypotheses. Do you therefore somehow accept every deity ever proposed?

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CJKay
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#76
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#76
(Original post by TurboCretin)
I guess Moses was either a liar or a madman then.
As much as I understand your point, I feel I have to point out that there's no actual historical evidence for Moses' existence other than the Torah, and his story is even more silly considering he was meant to have lived until 120 years old or something.
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Mathlover123
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#77
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I find it interesting that your position is we cant prove conclusively therefore we cant trust it, therefore atheism is false. Yet you are ready to say that belief in God is rational. I would say this as an atheist we have no evidence for God and because of that its irrational to believe in him.
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TurboCretin
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#78
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#78
(Original post by Mathlover123)
Or he didn't exist... Give us empirical proof outside of your bible.
I'm an atheist, I was being facetious.
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Mathlover123
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#79
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(Original post by TurboCretin)
I'm an atheist, I was being facetious.
Ah should have read your other posts my mistake
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TurboCretin
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#80
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#80
(Original post by Mathlover123)
Ah should have read your other posts my mistake
No problem, it's easy to see why the post would have made you think that.
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