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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Qatada not being charged in the UK is irrelevant. How does that change anything?
    Because many people seem to think (or at least conflate the two) that this is a deportation issue over things he's done in the UK, when it's actually an extradition issue over crimes he's accused of in Jordan.

    At the moment the extradition is the only case, and as far as that one goes anything he's done in Britain is irrelevant.
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    (Original post by Harry Callahan)
    I wouldn't go around preaching hate and bile and supporting terrorists.
    Wouldn't matter. If you want to get rid of justice by trial then you can't have any complaints when you don't get one.
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    And so Abu Qatada joins Alex Reid, Peter Andre, Leandro and Dwight Yorke in a long list of men who refuse to go back to Jordan.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Wouldn't matter. If you want to get rid of justice by trial then you can't have any complaints when you don't get one.
    He can have a trial in Jordan. We shouldn't be spending vast sums on that waste of organs. Get him gone.
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    (Original post by Harry Callahan)
    He can have a trial in Jordan. We shouldn't be spending vast sums on that waste of organs. Get him gone.
    There's no question of Qatada being tried in this country for offences which are within Jordanian remit. The only inculpatory evidence against Qatada held by the Jordanians is a pair of confessions obtained under torture. If the courts in Jordan were able to convince HMG that this evidence would not be used in a trial, he may yet be deported. If the Jordanians were in possession of other evidence which would allow a prosecution, then he would have been escorted to the plane long ago.

    The government are likely very aware of the legality of expelling him from the country. One of the reasons he hasn't been expelled is that his presence in the UK and the media frenzy surrounding it generates exploitable public hostility to the Human Rights Act and towards those who apply it (judges, ministers etc.).

    Unfortunately, Qatada is what Lenin would describe as a 'useful idiot'.
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    Why is this such an issue? He isn't a British citizen, the state has all the powers it needs to remove him, regardless of what fate waits him elsewhere, HE DOESN'T EVEN NEED TO BE EXTRADITED OR HAVE COMMITED A CRIME.

    When the state says that a non-citizen is no longer welcome, THEY CAN DEPORT HIM.


    Stuff him on a plane with some border agents, land somewhere else willing to take him, and kick him the **** off the plane. PROBLEM SOLVED.



    Sometimes this country is just daft.
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    (Original post by British199)
    I agree with you 100% but unfortunately I doubt we will ever be able to deport him.


    Can we not just round them all up one night and get the RAF to fly them out and deal with the political fall out after?
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    (Original post by Harry Callahan)
    He can have a trial in Jordan. We shouldn't be spending vast sums on that waste of organs. Get him gone.
    He's already been tried in absentia in Jordan, and the case against him was fabricated evidence and torture confessions.

    To extradite him we'd have to refute the ECHR, which would effectively make our signature on any international treaty worthless.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    He's already been tried in absentia in Jordan, and the case against him was fabricated evidence and torture confessions.

    To extradite him we'd have to refute the ECHR, which would effectively make our signature on any international treaty worthless.
    Refuse the ECHR then. Let's remove ourselves from the EU and see the benefits of being autonomous and self-governing once again.

    He's taking the absolute piss out of this country and its people and it's clowns like you who enable him to do it.
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    (Original post by Harry Callahan)
    Refuse the ECHR then. Let's remove ourselves from the EU and see the benefits of being autonomous and self-governing once again.
    So are you happy for all the countries we've signed other treaties with to refute those too?

    He's taking the absolute piss out of this country and its people
    By doing what? Trying to avoid being sent to his death?
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    So are you happy for all the countries we've signed other treaties with to refute those too?



    By doing what? Trying to avoid being sent to his death?
    No, by living in a £3m mansion funded by the state and receiving £500k in benefits per annum, and by going against our very way of life with his vitriol.
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    Couldn't care less if he'd be tortured - ship him off and be done with him.
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    (Original post by Swist)
    The only inculpatory evidence against Qatada held by the Jordanians is a pair of confessions obtained under torture.
    Source?

    (Original post by Swist)
    If the courts in Jordan were able to convince HMG that this evidence would not be used in a trial, he may yet be deported.
    Jordan has already promised not to use the 'evidence' in trial, and they don't need to convince HMG, it's the courts that need 'convincing'.
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    (Original post by Harry Callahan)
    No, by living in a £3m mansion funded by the state and receiving £500k in benefits per annum
    What mansion? £3m is a (high) estimate of how much he's cost in total.

    And seriously, what do you expect? He's been pretty much in court non-stop since 2002, been in prison half the time (including max security prisons) and he obviously can't get a job.

    and by going against our very way of life with his vitriol.
    You're now conflating two separate issues. The issue currently in court is over his extradition to Jordan, which would be there regardless of what he's done in the UK.

    Secondly, his UK activities. Imagine that there was no extradition issue, but that everything he's done in the UK had still happened. Until he's charged, brought to trial and convicted, he can't be deported under British law, never mind European law or international law.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    What mansion? £3m is a (high) estimate of how much he's cost in total.

    And seriously, what do you expect? He's been pretty much in court non-stop since 2002, been in prison half the time (including max security prisons) and he obviously can't get a job.



    You're now conflating two separate issues. The issue currently in court is over his extradition to Jordan, which would be there regardless of what he's done in the UK.

    Secondly, his UK activities. Imagine that there was no extradition issue, but that everything he's done in the UK had still happened. Until he's charged, brought to trial and convicted, he can't be deported under British law, never mind European law or international law.
    I'm not wasting my time.
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    You know what?

    I am sick and tired of the government targeting an individual who has committed no crimes here or elsewhere.

    If he commits a crime then lock him up. Otherwise let him be (I do of course hate him but the dictates of objectivity...).

    And what a waste of time over one individual.
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    (Original post by Studentus-anonymous)
    Why is this such an issue? He isn't a British citizen, the state has all the powers it needs to remove him, regardless of what fate waits him elsewhere, HE DOESN'T EVEN NEED TO BE EXTRADITED OR HAVE COMMITED A CRIME.

    When the state says that a non-citizen is no longer welcome, THEY CAN DEPORT HIM.
    Er, yes he does need to have committed a crime to be deported. The government can't just deport people because they want to.

    The state hasn't said he's no longer welcome, the government has, there's a difference. The state includes the courts, and since he hasn't been brought to trial yet, he's innocent until proven guilty and can't be deported. Unless the government passes a deportation law pertaining only to Abu Qatada and no-one else, he can't be deported until convicted of a crime.
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    (Original post by Harry Callahan)
    I don't have any reasoned arguments, I think that a personal whim should be good enough.
    was what I read.
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    Abu Qatada = best troll ever.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    was what I read.
    Yawn.
 
 
 
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