Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

How does everyone feel about Michael Gove's A-level reform policy? Watch

    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rumaanaa)
    What P I S S E S me off the most is the fact that we don't even have a say in this,at all.
    Yet we are the ones that this will affect the most?Like ,wtf? politicians just do whatever the hell they want ,and we just have to go with it.
    They did the same thing with uni fees, now with Jan exams and then godknows what else...
    a-levels ,in general,are quiet hard as it is.
    WHY THE FUXK MAKE IT WORSE!?!?!?
    urrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
    Why should students have a say in it?

    By the time your views have been heard and evaluated you'll be on your way to university (or wherever else).

    This isn't something students should be consulted on. It is a matter for the government and for schools, sixth forms and colleges.

    Students are in the system very briefly. The state, and educational establishments are in it for years.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    I can understand why he's doing this, but I think exams and specifications would have to change as well, to fit with the new no-January-modules exam format. Otherwise it'd be unfair, especially to those with high offers to meet. For example, hitting AAAA in one set of exams is tough, or perhaps an offer is based on a student getting 90ums in each a-level maths module exam they take. There's no space for mistakes here.

    It also doesn't take into account how some boards are very unpredictable, with harshly difficult exams one year, nicer papers another year. They're variable, variable between exam boards, variable between different papers, and if they aren't changed alongside Gove's plans, top students need a cushion, an opportunity to retake to meet tough offers.

    Yes, in an ideal world we'd like education that wasn't about cramming for the next module exam. But students take a-levels to gain a place at university, they aim to meet offers. Not just to learn things that they'll be able to keep with them for a long time.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rumaanaa)
    What P I S S E S me off the most is the fact that we don't even have a say in this,at all.
    Yet we are the ones that this will affect the most?Like ,wtf? politicians just do whatever the hell they want ,and we just have to go with it.

    They did the same thing with uni fees, now with Jan exams and then godknows what else...
    a-levels ,in general,are quiet hard as it is.
    WHY THE FUXK MAKE IT WORSE!?!?!?
    urrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
    mmm...

    do you really think secondary school kids under the age of 18 should have a say on something like a-level reform?

    Do you think young people have enough information to make a rational decision about whether to increase to tuition fee cap? that said, does even half the adult population?
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Pride)
    mmm...

    do you really think secondary school kids under the age of 18 should have a say on something like a-level reform?

    Do you think young people have enough information to make a rational decision about whether to increase to tuition fee cap? that said, does even half the adult population?
    Given that I spend a lot of my time in the company of similarly-aged teenagers: No. Just, No. Leave it to people that have been through it
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I'm sure Gove is an intelligent guy, but he's doing a very good job of showing how people with no experience in an area shouldn't govern it. Tampering with a basic human right due to a political ideology is clearly dangerous, even if you think it's the right thing to do.

    I'd much rather the decision was given to people with experience in education, as we'd be more likely to get a deal that doesn't push the system we already have in place into regression.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Big-Daddy)
    This is how it is for the advanced Indian and Chinese exams. Have you seen the level of competence the students who revise for these exams develop? You learn the same thing in 2 years of an undergraduate degree at a top university as some of the entrance exams demand you to learn in those countries. It looks like rote memorization but actually it is just core learning of skill - do enough practice and you will understand the material better than someone with a 'good head' (that's the principle by which such exams operate and it is an undeniably successful one).
    I can definitely agree with that, as someone who was brought up in the Indian education system up until year 9, I passed my exams by quite literally memorising everything. In the exams, the examiners barely even bothered switching up the wording for a few questions, but presented it in the same way we were given in our textbooks or notes. Sure, year 9 is still not THAT big a deal in comparison to A-levels, but the system was terrible. Systems like those produce students that may look good on paper but that isn't the case in reality. So they won't have the skill set for the real world. Ever since I've started studying in the UK, I've actually made sure to understand everything as opposed to simply memorising it. This is something I did and learned in this education system.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Pride)
    mmm...

    do you really think secondary school kids under the age of 18 should have a say on something like a-level reform?

    Do you think young people have enough information to make a rational decision about whether to increase to tuition fee cap? that said, does even half the adult population?
    No, we don't have the experience, but perhaps they could do a focus group thing where they can bring in students from a wide spread grade say, students with grade E/D to students with grade A's and have them give their opinions, because ultimately it is the students that these new reforms will be practised on, NOT half the adult population.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Barden)
    But it's more likely to stick, no? You're advocating a return to a system which was even worse at promoting learning...
    I'm so glad someone brought this up! I completely agree with you.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    he basically ruined my life!
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by NightStrider)
    That would be why they use grades........


    http://www.bstubbs.co.uk/a-lev.htm

    Overall 7.9% got an A* last year. That should help to differentiate.
    Hahahahaha
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by nukethemaly)
    I can definitely agree with that, as someone who was brought up in the Indian education system up until year 9, I passed my exams by quite literally memorising everything. In the exams, the examiners barely even bothered switching up the wording for a few questions, but presented it in the same way we were given in our textbooks or notes. Sure, year 9 is still not THAT big a deal in comparison to A-levels, but the system was terrible. Systems like those produce students that may look good on paper but that isn't the case in reality. So they won't have the skill set for the real world. Ever since I've started studying in the UK, I've actually made sure to understand everything as opposed to simply memorising it. This is something I did and learned in this education system.
    Actually I was supporting the Indian/Chinese education systems.

    The issue with bearing with it up until Year 9 is just that - the examiners only test memory. I guess the difference is to be seen between rote-memorization and rigorous practice. To succeed in an exam like a Year 9 school final may only take memorization, but believe me, to succeed in the IIT-JEE or other top exams you will need very hard core skills. It just looks like memorization - actually to do well you will need to develop your grasp of the material to a higher stage than most first-year undergraduates in England at the best unis, forget A-level students. That is what Gove is trying to bring into the UK education system.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by nukethemaly)
    No, we don't have the experience, but perhaps they could do a focus group thing where they can bring in students from a wide spread grade say, students with grade E/D to students with grade A's and have them give their opinions, because ultimately it is the students that these new reforms will be practised on, NOT half the adult population.
    perhaps, but even then, that's not really taking their viewpoints and giving them any real weight. It's letting them talk, and filtering that into policies that the ultimately the adults 100% decide on.

    I think you're right though, focus groups are a good way to get an idea of how different young people will be affected by certain reforms.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Pride)
    perhaps, but even then, that's not really taking their viewpoints and giving them any real weight. It's letting them talk, and filtering that into policies that the ultimately the adults 100% decide on.

    I think you're right though, focus groups are a good way to get an idea of how different young people will be affected by certain reforms.
    Well ultimately it is us who voted for them, so we were the ones who gave them this power. By we, I mean the public.

    But yeah I also see where you're coming from.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CRIKEY12)
    Unfortunately this too is far from the truth. He was a journalist prior to political life. Some avenues of thought wonder if he tried to be a teacher but was turned down, and that is why he seems to HATE all that is good in education. It is because he is not an idiot that he is so dangerous to the future of our country.
    Academically he is intelligent, but as to how to further the education of British Children, he hasn't a clue.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    agree
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ThatPerson)
    Academically he is intelligent, but as to how to further the education of British Children, he hasn't a clue.
    Sadly thats politics.

    Parties recruit from top universities where students are academically gifted but probably naive of life and the world (as all young people are).

    I read an article on D. Milliband the other day which basically said Milliband was clever but had absolutely no experience of the world outside university or politics.

    Few cabinet or shadow cabinet ministers will have experienced living on benefits, state school or living an 'average' life. It's all too often private school, Oxbridge, think tank, party, safe seat, make decisions on the lives of millions without any experience but a degree in PPE.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I have a largely split view on Michael Gove so just a warning this will possibly be a rather long message.

    Firstly, I must express my mixed emotions involving sheer hatred towards Mr Gove for making these changes whilst I am in Year 12, yet admiration at his determination to overhaul our education system, finally we have a minister willing to stand up tooth and nail for what he believes in.

    I do have the opinion that his exam/examboard reforms are ill-thought about on his own part. I struggle to understand why you would, with little research, immediately scrap January exams for next year whilst subject content remains in modules. This simply just puts extra strain on students during exam season, without altering the knowledge they have as a linear system/changed curriculum will not be in place parallel to the scrapping of the January season. Additionally, the majority of top universities believe this and the lowered emphasis of AS levels will reduce their ability to select the best candidates through the UCAS system.

    However I am a huge supporter of his proposed curriculum changes, especially prioritising literacy and numeracy skills at very young ages. His history curriculum for primary and KS3 is in my opinion spot on. Lists of facts and statistics are exactly what is needed to educate our nation at early ages.

    Subjects such as Geography would be improved as there would hopefully be more emphasis on actually knowing continents and where nations are in the world before talking about rivers and rocks.

    All in all, I think Gove should push his curriculum hard, but should rid himself of the god-awful stubborness he has regarding examination reform, when it is in actual fact what we are learning and the simplicity of skills being taught that are leading us to fall behind many Asian nations, and not the fact that some kids have a chance to resit a couple of exams, or don't have to sit all of their exams at once.



    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SamGrainger95)
    I must express admiration at his determination to overhaul our education system, finally we have a minister willing to stand up tooth and nail for what he believes in.
    This is pointless when what he believes in is taking exams back to what they were like when he was a boy, because that system seemed to work okay for him. Education reform should be progressive, not regressive.

    (Original post by SamGrainger95)

    I do have the opinion that his exam/examboard reforms are ill-thought about on his own part. I struggle to understand why you would, with little research, immediately scrap January exams for next year whilst subject content remains in modules. This simply just puts extra strain on students during exam season, without altering the knowledge they have as a linear system/changed curriculum will not be in place parallel to the scrapping of the January season. Additionally, the majority of top universities believe this and the lowered emphasis of AS levels will reduce their ability to select the best candidates through the UCAS system.

    [/URL][/SIZE]
    Couldn't agree more with this.

    (Original post by SamGrainger95)

    However I am a huge supporter of his proposed curriculum changes, especially prioritising literacy and numeracy skills at very young ages. His history curriculum for primary and KS3 is in my opinion spot on. Lists of facts and statistics are exactly what is needed to educate our nation at early ages.
    Boo-urns. His curriculum changes, especially at KS1 are barbaric. Skills-based learning is being shunted in favour of facts & figures, something of little use to young children. I doubt many have any concept of what a Rhombus actually is beyond a 'squashed circle' but for the purposes of exams that's fine. Gove promised more autonomy for teachers but the extra beaurocracy they're being given is unwanted, they just want to teach they best way they can without having to tick endless boxes.

    With regard to the History curriculum I again disagree - it's all about making Britain look great and brushing away the darker truths of our empire. One might liken it to propaganda.

    (Original post by SamGrainger95)

    Subjects such as Geography would be improved as there would hopefully be more emphasis on actually knowing continents and where nations are in the world before talking about rivers and rocks.
    As a keen Geographer myself, it's a myth that Geography should be all about knowing countries. Geography is about studying the world and those who live within it - how it works, how we interact, how we respond to events. Rivers & rocks (we don't actually learn much at all about rocks, that's Geology) are important aspects of physical Geography; learning the physical processes that shape the world around us is potentially of use. Knowing where Moldova is on a globe is not.



    Don't take any of this personally, I do agree with a fair amount of what you're saying!
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Thanks to gove I've got 10 exams next year STEP II, III 6 maths(including fm) and 2 econ. But the 9 exams this year should prepare me well. So its not as devastating for me, but others are hit hard
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    He is absolutely useless, his proposals are *******s and he can't even put good enough spin on them to make it sound half good.
    How does he propose that children use these rote learned facts and figures?
    Cause without the skills and intelligence to apply them these facts will not only be boring and not at all appealing but they will be effing useless.
    He is a pre-historic politician and will have us writing on slates and creating cage drawings before long.
    Most useless politicians can be funny (boris, brown) but this man is a danger to our education system and all children growing up under his ridiculous system.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    What's your favourite Christmas sweets?
    Useful resources
    Uni match

    Applying to uni?

    Our tool will help you find the perfect course

    Articles:

    Debate and current affairs guidelinesDebate and current affairs wiki

    Quick link:

    Educational debate unanswered threads

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.