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    (Original post by L i b)
    Probably the majority of people really don't give much of a **** about what goes on beyond their own everyday experience. Ironically, with the Troubles in the past, you're probably going to matter even less.

    Spare a thought for the poor Cornish, Shetlanders, Manx and all that too. Hardly anyone in this country has a clue about their local distinctiveness either.
    Well, until Scotland becomes independent or Sinn Fein get the Border referendum they want.

    I don't mind people not recognising us for our local distinctiveness. I do mind people not even knowing basic facts about their own country, especially when it has caused so much bloodshed in recent and living memory.
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    (Original post by Hylean)
    I don't mind people not recognising us for our local distinctiveness. I do mind people not even knowing basic facts about their own country, especially when it has caused so much bloodshed in recent and living memory.
    We get the blame for so much bull**** it does get hard to keep track. We get the blame for Ireland, a situation we inherited from a time where no-one in the world would have given any more of a **** or cared more than we did. We get the blame for the Easter Rising when we were fighting a war in Europe, why does a small population matter in comparison, hence why no-one took it seriously, we get the blame for the Falls Curfew despite all the weapons we confiscated. It gets so tiring especially if it's a stupid, one sided biased comment.

    What about who killed the most people?

    Obama has the cheek to go to Northern Ireland and say 'things can be improved' despite no sign of apologies for NORAID, the American funding for the terrorist attacks on the United Kingdom.

    Why should we get this bull**** from anyone? If Northern Ireland had remained in the Irish Free State then it would not be us getting the bull****, it would be interesting to see how the world would react to RoI managing the troubles.


    (Original post by Hylean)
    Well, until Scotland becomes independent or Sinn Fein get the Border referendum they want.
    Northern Ireland is going nowhere, certainly if it means giving up the liberties it has from being British. Who says Scotland wants independence?
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    (Original post by ANB1993)
    I was talking to my friends at uni about Ireland and none of them seemed to really have a clue what had ever happened. So my question is this:

    Do people, outside of the island of Ireland, have any idea of what has actually gone on in Ireland in the past two centuries?

    I live in Northern Irealnd and all I can really remember from what we learned in history in JHS was something about people who wanted home rule and there was home rule bills and such. I remember the names Isaac Butt, Charles Stewart Parnell, Michael Collins and William Gladstone. It was all quite lengthy and elaborate and from then the troubles went on until the late 1990's until the Good Friday Agreement. My knowledge of the history of Ireland is quite poor and I never really had much interest in it all. There was quite a bit of division with catholics and protestants but there's been cross community work to try and bring the two communites together and whatnot. You'll find a lot about it all if you look it up on google about division in Ireland or something along those lines. (BBC bitesize northern ireland history might have something about it).

    Although today there is a lot less violence but sometimes you hear of people burning out cars in bad areas in other towns and roads being closed and most recently there has been conflict over the flag at Belfast city hall being restricted to fly for a certain ammount of days a year and people were protesting in lots of towns and there was also a few riots on for a month or so and I think it's still happening in some places and now there is a flag protest every Saturday at 1pm in Belfast city centre. There's still lots of violence in certain places in the city and honestly I wouldn't live there if you gave me a house for free. Towns outside Belfast and in the countryside are fine, it all depends what the people there are like and if it looks like a nice area.

    Bombs don't go off really now. It's just mostly young people from bad areas with nothing better to do or know no better than to join bad groups and participate in violence. You hear on the news of suspicious objects and car bombs that target police officers etc but it's rarely heard of anything going off because they're always diffused by bomb disposal before there's any severe damage caused. Sometime there is a tragic death but the police have been working to help prevent this from happening.

    I didn't grow up during the troubles but from what I've heard things have calmed down a lot since then and things are now being sorted out politically and in a civilised manner. Where I live it is pretty quiet, I just wouldn't go near certain areas in the town at night by myself because of drugs, alcohol abuse etc and the general anti-social behaviour that you can find anywhere. Northern Ireland is generally the same as anywhere else in the UK really (where I live anyway).
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    I'm not even sure why you're whining here. I didn't assign blame to either side in my comment. All I stated was that Northern Ireland has caused a lot of bloodshed in recent and living memory, so it's sad that people in the UK, but outside of NI, seem to know so little about their own country that they think NI uses the Euro.

    Get the chip off your shoulder.

    Now, for your post.


    (Original post by Snagprophet)
    We get the blame for so much bull**** it does get hard to keep track. We get the blame for Ireland, a situation we inherited from a time where no-one in the world would have given any more of a **** or cared more than we did. We get the blame for the Easter Rising when we were fighting a war in Europe, why does a small population matter in comparison, hence why no-one took it seriously, we get the blame for the Falls Curfew despite all the weapons we confiscated. It gets so tiring especially if it's a stupid, one sided biased comment.
    The Brits, and especially the English, get the blame for what happened in Ireland because it was predominantly their fault. Don't get me wrong, a lot of the **** that went down in Ireland was also the Irish fault, but the English have a lot to account for.

    I don't blame the Brits for the Easter Rising, not really. That was an unfortunately confluence of events: Unionists threatening civil war; a weak government unwilling to fulfil its promises or tell the Unionists to pipe down; a war breaking out. Even during the Rising, it was not popular in Ireland. The British response, however, was entirely ill thought out and it is no wonder that it drove the Irish to declare war.

    And yes, the British Army was criticised for the Falls Curfew, because it effectively shut down an entire area of West Belfast, punishing a great deal more innocent citizens than it did to stop the violence. This only pushed Roman Catholics into the arms of the IRA and made the British Army's job harder, not easier. Sure, you found guns, but at the price of radicalising an entire generation of Roman Catholics against British rule and cementing in their community the idea that the Brits were only there in NI to protect Protestant interests.


    (Original post by Snagprophet)
    What about who killed the most people?
    Well, if we want to look at that way, some historians argue that British governmental policy for Ireland during the Great Famine was actually an attempted genocide of the Irish Catholic population. Taking those numbers into account, the Brits have killed more. And then, of course, there's the massacres by Cromwell and all the other battles where the English/Brits beat the Irish. Oh, let's not forget Croke Park. Oh, and Bloody Sunday.

    And really, arguing "who killed more" is hardly the best way to assign blame in a highly complicated issue.


    (Original post by Snagprophet)
    Obama has the cheek to go to Northern Ireland and say 'things can be improved' despite no sign of apologies for NORAID, the American funding for the terrorist attacks on the United Kingdom.
    Take that up with them, not us. And I wouldn't really ***** too much about it, given the strong evidence for British collusion with the Loyalist paramilitaries as well. They were no different to the IRA. So, the British government funded paramilitary groups who attacked their own people, as the Loyalists generally tended to attack civilians more than they did the IRA, known as "reprisals".


    (Original post by Snagprophet)
    Why should we get this bull**** from anyone? If Northern Ireland had remained in the Irish Free State then it would not be us getting the bull****, it would be interesting to see how the world would react to RoI managing the troubles.
    It would've been better, I think. Who knows, the Troubles might not ever have happened. The Unionists were already threatening civil war, so an outright civil war of the issue probably would've ended it. Especially as a pro-remaining in the union bloc would have remained in Ireland rather than migrating into Northern Ireland. Also, if Westminster had forced Home Rule on the island, the Rising would probably never have happened, nor the Anglo-Irish War, nor the Irish Civil War and the power structure in Ireland would have been completely different.

    Really, all splitting the island into two states did was make the situation worse when you look at it. And that is directly the fault of the British government.


    (Original post by Snagprophet)
    Northern Ireland is going nowhere, certainly if it means giving up the liberties it has from being British. Who says Scotland wants independence?
    Unfortunately, you have no say in the matter. Only the Northern Irish do and we will vote for it on a Border Referendum when the Secretary of State decides to call for one.

    I don't know, the fact they voted in a party with independence as one of their main running platforms? Besides, I didn't say it would happen soon.

    Might add that Ireland is apparently tied fourth in the world in the list of countries with most freedom. That's above the UK, by the way.

    http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/nz-l...reedom-5314956
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    (Original post by ANB1993)
    Of course the world is full of many different possibilities. But for someone who has lived in many parts of Ireland and know people in positions in government and people in revolutionary wings, whilst being the son of a Protestant and Catholic I am in a good position to make an educated guess. yes, I know, an educated guess, but in terms of the unpredictably of the Irish question, that's all one can ever have. I suppose, who am I to know what is going to happen, and you may well be right in what you say.
    Also, having been brought up a Protestant and playing Gaelic, a Catholic sport, I have encountered jibes from protestants throughout my life and know that the situation will take many twists and turns before the final conclusion is reached. And in reality one may never be reached. It is a very complicated topic..
    I appreciate your responses, I enjoy a decent debate with someone!
    you do know that none of these make you an expert right? Not even informed. Many with the same experiences hold different views and anecdotes are poor evidence.
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    (Original post by Hylean)
    As far as I'm aware, the Orange Order doesn't prohibit Roman Catholics from joining, it's just expressly against Roman Catholicism as a religion. A subtle difference that is enough to allow the bigots to enjoy themselves, but keeps them from being banned.
    Isn't the Orange Order a religious organisation? If it is, then it makes sense they would prohibit Catholics from joining. Unless they convert to Protestantism.
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    I am from Northern Ireland so can't really say I am impartial and admittedly I was one of the 25% who called themselves Northern Irish.

    From my interactions with people in UK they don't know anything about the country bar the IRA attacks on the mainland. They are uninterested and disengaged.

    To be fair, I regularly encounter intelligent adults who have no clue about what is going on. We shouldn't be playing the martyr game on either side.

    People speculate about the troubles starting up again due to the spate of bomb scares bit I've been at uni in Belfast for the past 5 years and there were just as many in 08/09 in Belfast.
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    (Original post by Snagprophet)
    My flatmate from Belfast says that the city is covered with Union Flags to compensate for them taking it off the city hall. No surrender!
    Great photo taken by the "Shankill Defenders" or something like that. Standing outside the Linen Hall Ireland with a sign saying "this is ours." Errrr....hang on

    And fair do's the leaders of the protests, Jamie Bryson who ended his hunger strike after a few hours to ask for a curry and Willie Frazer - who's intelligence is actually so low I'm surprised he's living.
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    (Original post by Llamageddon)
    you do know that none of these make you an expert right? Not even informed. Many with the same experiences hold different views and anecdotes are poor evidence.
    Oh of course I am not an expert. I am very far from it. Some would say bias, but even so, living day in and day out with it, and having a very good understanding of the past certainly makes me more of an "expert" than you. Of course everyone in Ireland will have a slightly different perception of what will happen. However, it does not matter whether I am right or wrong really in this thread, just as it does not matter if you prove me wrong. What matters is what actually happens and no matter how much we debate it we will most likely not agree.
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    This threads hilarious.

    Nearly all of yous have no idea what yous are talking about.
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    (Original post by Snagprophet)
    we get the blame for the Falls Curfew despite all the weapons we confiscated. It gets so tiring especially if it's a stupid, one sided biased comment.
    Officers in the British army blame the Falls Curfew for turning the majority catholic view against the British army. One even stating that if it wasn't for the curfew the troubles wouldn't have played out anywhere near as bad as it did. So don't make it out as if it is only one side blaming the government for that atrocious plan, high ranking members of the military also blame the government. So you have demonstrated a complete lack of competence in this area I am afraid.
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    (Original post by Hylean)
    If they're going to claim as part of their country, they could at least get some basic education on the place.
    While I despair of the poor historical (and current) knowledge displayed by the general British public, I don't think it is reasonable to say that the British claim NI. The truth is that we would be happy to allow it to join the republic at any time and wouldn't miss the drain on our security forces and public coffers that it represents one tiny bit. The republic can have it any time it can be arranged as far as the British public and government are concerned.

    The problem is with the unionist elements (misnamed "loyalists"), and a united Ireland cannot happen until a majority of the population is in favour. Given that most protestants and most RCs are currently in favour of staying in the UK that won't be happening at any time in the foreseeable future, and when it does happen the newly-reunited Ireland will, most likely, have tremendous problems with both dissidents and organised crime to solve.
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    (Original post by IRSP044)
    This threads hilarious.

    Nearly all of yous have no idea what yous are talking about.
    Explain
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    (Original post by CelticSymphony67)
    Easter is a very special time for us Irish, as it is the Anniversary of the Easter Rising in Dublin, when we finally had enough of English Rule.
    There was no such thing. In 1916, Ireland was an integral part of the United Kingdom. It was not 'ruled' by anyone else. Nor was the Easter Rising some sort of national movement, it was a relatively small group which had little public support in its endeavours.

    The relationship between Ireland and the UK has never been better, and whilst the IRA did some terrible things since 1969, lets not beat about the bush. The English did no good in Ireland, they brought Wars, Famines, Destruction, and partition of our country.
    As part of Britain, Ireland experienced the greatest step forward in industrialisation, infrastructure and all that in its history. As for "Famines", presumably you buy the absurd propaganda of the Republican movement that the Great Famine was somehow the fault of the English people. Well that's utter rubbish: racist rubbish to boot!
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    I probably know more than your average English person about the whole situation but I have nowhere near the level of knowledge displayed by the previous poster.

    The level of ignorance displayed by some about the situation is quite astounding though.
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    (Original post by IRSP044)
    This threads hilarious.

    Nearly all of yous have no idea what yous are talking about.
    Well said. The lack of knowledge some people show on this subject is laughable and plain embarrassing. I lived in 1980s Belfast, and I saw what the British Soldiers did on the streets. Some of them should be languishing in Jail. Same for some on Republican side too. Both sides did wrong, but some English people think that there armed forces and Country can do no wrong, and did no wrong in Ireland. They are wrong.
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    (Original post by IRSP044)
    This threads hilarious.

    Nearly all of yous have no idea what yous are talking about.
    A lot of what has been said in this thread has been factual or predictions based on factual knowledge or polling statistics. If you're going to make statements like that then back them up.
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    (Original post by 01Chris02)
    A lot of what has been said in this thread has been factual or predictions based on factual knowledge or polling statistics. If you're going to make statements like that then back them up.
    Would rep you if I had any!
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    (Original post by L i b)
    presumably you buy the absurd propaganda of the Republican movement that the Great Famine was somehow the fault of the English people. Well that's utter rubbish: racist rubbish to boot!
    The famine itself had nothing to do with the people in the mainland UK. The issue is the lack of effort on part of the government, while the didn't stand back and do nothing, you can't say they bent over backwards. As a result the population decreased dramatically and is yet to recover. Famines which were common during these times rarely caused the amount of damage that it did in Ireland and as a region of the worlds most powerful superpower at the time, simply should have been averted. The Highlands suffered from the same famine but was not as devastating there.
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    (Original post by ANB1993)
    To answer your question, it is yes and no. The fact of the matter is, that when the majority votes, Ireland will be united and currently the percentage of Protestants to Catholics in Ireland in 52-48. When this vote goes through, the delay of partition and the relatively "peaceful" years will be forgotten with an outburst of violence



    And on what grounds do you come to that conclusion? Having lived through schools in Ireland and having just left for university, I can promise you that within the next 20 years there will be an outbreak of the troubles. However, it may be the unionists fighting guerrilla warfare as a United Ireland is on the rising.
    A united Ireland might become the majority opinion among the public, but does it have any political support outside Sinn Fein?
 
 
 
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