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    (Original post by tomctutor)
    Non-financial companies in the UK hold around £700 billion in cash reserves, (mainly in off-shore holdings) - Deloitte Feb 2012.
    So these companies are free to suck massive amounts of cash out of the UK economy, leaving it (us) in billions of national debt, and thats Ok its fine they can keep it all- and we go around attacking the poorest in society with punitive fiscal measures. Not to mention the millions in bonuses paid out to a handful of executives in my (your) banks. Sorry I think the Co's and Bros owes UK BIG time. An unemployed requires a job which are few and far between, totally disgraceful Osborne and Co. I think they (this cabinet) should be on PBR
    (Payment by Results) until they get the books balanced - as Gordon Brown managed to do _ I suppose it takes a Labour leader to do it.

    How much foreign cash is held in the UK? A bit more than £700 billion me thinks.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    How much of that is down to cultural issues though?
    I'm not sure

    But it's one of those delicate issues like the problem of rare disabilities occurring in families that have inter-breeding (I.e cousins marrying-which for some reason in still legal in the UK)
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    (Original post by a729)
    Loool well some people see the welfare state as an employer and claiming benefits as the job so maybe they might be looking advice to set up a trade union for benefit claimants loool!

    That's the problem , people seem to be happy to spend /receive money that was forcibly taken from others lol
    What's wrong with trade unions - almost all public service workers and MPs belong to one - so they can only be good. So why not unemployed have a union to fight their corner- after all they and the disabled have 'nil' representation when they sign-on or are forced to attend Atos assessments and the like.

    You pay your taxes, your contributions - you receive benefits if your a UK Citizen - thats the deal for everyone - including you - assuming your here in the UK (I assume).
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    How much foreign cash is held in the UK? A bit more than £700 billion me thinks.
    Maybe Foreign Co's hold bonds etc in the UK, thats not the issue they can pack up and leave tomorrow. Were talking about UK registered which I argue have a moral duty to contribute through taxes and participate as corporates in the society from which they make their profit.
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    (Original post by tomctutor)
    EGHH -AND YOU'RE NOT!

    High earners receive the £10k allowance give away like everyone else - YES/NO.
    Im sure such £40K'rs won't be made homeless through the new Welfare Reform measures.

    Inflation effects everyone that includes the poorest whom can't afford savings anyhow- so its not a savings issue but a survival issue for them.

    Many working poor will soon be joining the unemployed queue- where they will be forced through welfare to do the same job they done before for their benefit.

    I bet they soon will up VAT and blame it on Europe!

    Housing benefit is paid out to low earners so they will be affected by the new measures too.
    You need to check your facts. After 100k the personal allowance progressively decreases and is 0 for those on above 150k or so

    Don't stereotype-there are poor people who are wise enough to save rather than get into debt by living outside their means

    Inflation isn't strictly the government's fault-see the BoE and it's annoying QE

    But proportionally the working poor won't be as affected-anyhow people can offset it by moving to a cheaper property. That's the logical answer most people who aren't reliant on state help have to do when their budget is tight!

    The money grabbing EU wanted to increase their share of VAT by 1% but Osborne shrewdly told them no!
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    (Original post by tomctutor)
    What's wrong with trade unions - almost all public service workers and MPs belong to one - so they can only be good. So why not unemployed have a union to fight their corner- after all they and the disabled have 'nil' representation when they sign-on or are forced to attend Atos assessments and the like.

    You pay your taxes, your contributions - you receive benefits if your a UK Citizen - thats the deal for everyone - including you - assuming your here in the UK (I assume).
    The 1970s were terrible as unions were out of control-winter of discontent and the 3-day week plus the UK having to take an IMF loan in 1976

    They pushed Thatcher too far and ended up unemployed

    Unions can be good but are terrible if the leaders are militant or politically motivated like Scargill!

    There are a few people who are able bodied and are able to go without a days work at all -by choice due to quirks in the welfare state
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    (Original post by a729)
    The 1970s were terrible as unions were out of control-winter of discontent and the 3-day week plus the UK having to take an IMF loan in 1976

    They pushed Thatcher too far and ended up unemployed

    Unions can be good but are terrible if the leaders are militant or politically motivated like Scargill!

    There are a few people who are able bodied and are able to go without a days work at all -by choice due to quirks in the welfare state
    I remember the 3 day week wasn't it Heath a Tory in charge that instigated it - the same man whom toke us into the European Community without a referendum!

    They didn't push Thatcher enough. Scargil fought to save the jobs of hundreds of thousands in the UK despite vile personal attacks by the right on his integrity- yes I remember those days well.

    Back to today though- millions are unemployed and easy targets for bullying and stereotyping by this government and its supporters.

    The Welfare Reform acts are an IDS abomination and should be resisted by everyone - working or not!
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    (Original post by a729)
    You need to check your facts. After 100k the personal allowance progressively decreases and is 0 for those on above 150k or so ..

    But proportionally the working poor won't be as affected-anyhow people can offset it by moving to a cheaper property. That's the logical answer most people who aren't reliant on state help have to do when their budget is tight!

    ..
    I was talking about £40k'rs+ but such rich people (£150k) are surely well placed to look after themselves comfortably - I have no issue with people working and earning high wages - except greedy bankers of course!

    The working poor (like the out-of-work benefits recipients) will have to move to expensive private property lets (not social housing as there is effectively none left) with the state picking up the tab - result more expensive for taxpayer. If you have a spare room would you put me up?
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    Accusing critics of peddling headline-seeking nonsense? You couldn't make it up. The Mail just this morning: "Vile product of welfare UK".

    Distasteful and irresponsible journalism clearly put out as a response to the petition against Iain Duncan Smith.

    And the benefit cuts have been in place what, 3 days? People are finally starting to wake up to the reality of what is being inflicted on this country. There's a s**tstorm coming this summer my son, get ready.

    I almost want it to continue just so I can see that I have been vindicated. Despite the deaths and misery that will occur, I want the government to push us too far. I want to see us condemned and spat on around Europe for our disgusting backwardness. I want to see direct action by the people of Britain. I want to see the sadistic vilification of the poor and the disadvantaged kicked squarely out of politics for a generation.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Accusing critics of peddling headline-seeking nonsense? You couldn't make it up. The Mail just this morning: "Vile product of welfare UK".

    Distasteful and irresponsible journalism clearly put out as a response to the petition against Iain Duncan Smith.

    And the benefit cuts have been in place what, 3 days? People are finally starting to wake up to the reality of what is being inflicted on this country. There's a s**tstorm coming this summer my son, get ready.

    I almost want it to continue just so I can see that I have been vindicated. Despite the deaths and misery that will occur, I want the government to push us too far. I want to see us condemned and spat on around Europe for our disgusting backwardness. I want to see direct action by the people of Britain. I want to see the sadistic vilification of the poor and the disadvantaged kicked squarely out of politics for a generation.
    Oh please, the 'cuts' we are seeing in the UK is nothing much-spending is still increasing overall- compared to the real government spending cuts seen in Greece.
    So don't be hysterical
    The UK hasn't seen real cuts in government spending since 1921! Welfare spending went up by 1/3 under Maggie!

    None of the government policies at the moment are anywhere as unpopular as the more or the less universally hated poll tax!

    I want the politics of envy and so-called self-righteous hypocritical class warriors who want to keep spending like there's no tomorrow till the UK is broke and destitute like Greece ( The UK has been forced to take a IMF loan before in 1976).
    We should give the able bodied jobs not welfare!
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    (Original post by tomctutor)
    What's wrong with trade unions - almost all public service workers and MPs belong to one - so they can only be good. So why not unemployed have a union to fight their corner- after all they and the disabled have 'nil' representation when they sign-on or are forced to attend Atos assessments and the like.

    You pay your taxes, your contributions - you receive benefits if your a UK Citizen - thats the deal for everyone - including you - assuming your here in the UK (I assume).


    You have to pay to be in a union. A union fir the unemployed would be by default tax payer funded. If you can afford the subs to join a union whilst unemployed then you're receiving too much benefits.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Accusing critics of peddling headline-seeking nonsense? You couldn't make it up. The Mail just this morning: "Vile product of welfare UK".

    Distasteful and irresponsible journalism clearly put out as a response to the petition against Iain Duncan Smith.

    And the benefit cuts have been in place what, 3 days? People are finally starting to wake up to the reality of what is being inflicted on this country. There's a s**tstorm coming this summer my son, get ready.

    I almost want it to continue just so I can see that I have been vindicated. Despite the deaths and misery that will occur, I want the government to push us too far. I want to see us condemned and spat on around Europe for our disgusting backwardness. I want to see direct action by the people of Britain. I want to see the sadistic vilification of the poor and the disadvantaged kicked squarely out of politics for a generation.

    I think the title a vile product of a welfare state explained how somebody can get £60k a year fir doing nothing............
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    (Original post by tomctutor)
    I remember the 3 day week wasn't it Heath a Tory in charge that instigated it - the same man whom toke us into the European Community without a referendum!

    They didn't push Thatcher enough. Scargil fought to save the jobs of hundreds of thousands in the UK despite vile personal attacks by the right on his integrity- yes I remember those days well.

    Back to today though- millions are unemployed and easy targets for bullying and stereotyping by this government and its supporters.

    The Welfare Reform acts are an IDS abomination and should be resisted by everyone - working or not!

    By the tone of your post you yearn for those glory days of the trade unions.

    the good thing is your generation is dying out so hopefully we will never again return to the days where the trade unions blackmailed the country. They had their day and destroyed themselves.
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    (Original post by a729)
    Oh please, the 'cuts' we are seeing in the UK is nothing much-spending is still increasing overall- compared to the real government spending cuts seen in Greece.
    So don't be hysterical
    The UK hasn't seen real cuts in government spending since 1921! Welfare spending went up by 1/3 under Maggie!
    Yes, I know. That's because we don't need to make cuts, not a country like us. That is what makes the assault on the poor so much worse. It is unnecessary and sadistic. It will cost money rather than save it, because of appeals, crisis relief and the like, and is mostly about stressing poor people out by hassling them, sanctioning them, shunting them from pillar to post and generally making life 100x more needlessly stressful to them than it already is. Vilification of the disabled and the social cleansing of London are key elements. Sound familiar?

    None of the government policies at the moment are anywhere as unpopular as the more or the less universally hated poll tax!
    Well they bloody well should be. They've only just come in and we are already seeing a huge wave of opposition as disgusted as I am, so I live in hope.

    I want the politics of envy and so-called self-righteous hypocritical class warriors who want to keep spending like there's no tomorrow till the UK is broke and destitute like Greece ( The UK has been forced to take a IMF loan before in 1976).
    We should give the able bodied jobs not welfare!
    There's only one set of hypocritical class warriors spending like there's no tomorrow, and that's the politicians.

    There are no jobs - there never were even in the boom times. Welfare is needed in a knowledge economy. This is because in the industrial economy everyone was born with a body that could be put to work, and everybody could do more or less the same amount of physical work. In the knowledge economy not everyone is born with a brain that can be put to work, and also huge efficiencies can be made due to how much knowledge can be crammed into one human brain. In the jargon it is called structural unemployment and is a necessary evil of Thatcher's reforms.

    Do you understand now?
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Firstly why's a trade union getting involved in this?

    secondly its the 21st century so can we stop with the chants if class war. Some of us actually have to foot the bill for this.

    so you'll excuse me for feeling the need to go short because somebody would like to keep spare bedrooms to see their kids once a week.
    Because they are one of the few organs of working class power.

    This is class war. Its not rich people any of this is aimed at.
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    (Original post by a729)
    Loool well some people see the welfare state as an employer and claiming benefits as the job so maybe they might be looking advice to set up a trade union for benefit claimants loool!

    That's the problem , people seem to be happy to spend /receive money that was forcibly taken from others lol
    Unite have a branch for unemployed people as do the IWW. You think unemployed people don't deserve representation? Why is that?
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    I think the title a vile product of a welfare state explained how somebody can get £60k a year fir doing nothing............
    It would be nice at least to see a breakdown of the benefits he was receiving rather than bandying numbers around you've read in the Daily Mail. I certainly don't believe for a second that it's possible to earn £60k in benefits. (Even if you were defrauding the system, it would take as much work as a full-time job anyway, and frankly if he was that good at it he could have been hired in a flash by an accountancy firm.)

    Even if he was getting £60k, that wouldn't show that this is the fault of the benefit system.

    (Original post by Institute for Fiscal Studies, 2012)
    Approximately 30 million people in the UK - approximately half the total population - receive income from at least one social security benefit.
    Do we have thirty million Mike Philpotts rampaging around the country? No, we have one. We do have plenty of comparable psychopaths and murderers from all social classes, in fact, I might venture that the majority of psychopaths are found among the rich...

    The Philpott case says nothing about any social grouping larger than the Philpott family. Please grow up.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    By the tone of your post you yearn for those glory days of the trade unions.

    the good thing is your generation is dying out so hopefully we will never again return to the days where the trade unions blackmailed the country. They had their day and destroyed themselves.
    All I earn for is fairness and equity in a state where the top 1% of earners own 20% of the nations wealth. I want representation for benefit claimants (all categories)- ergo a union.
    The tax payer can pay for it like they pay the billions for QE to the banks.
    Maybe unions power has been diminished but people will fight for their rights, even if it means mass protest. Yes give people jobs - proper conditions of work, proper rate of pay. That'll be a good start!
    If unions are terrible organizations then why do Whitehall senior civil servants and managers feel the need to belong to one (FDA).
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    I think the title a vile product of a welfare state explained how somebody can get £60k a year fir doing nothing............
    How does anyone know what these people got in benefits unless some civil servant leaked it to the press- so there should be an urgent investigation by DWP into whom is leaking confidential claimants data?
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    (Original post by tomctutor)
    Non-financial companies in the UK hold around £700 billion in cash reserves, (mainly in off-shore holdings) - Deloitte Feb 2012.
    So these companies are free to suck massive amounts of cash out of the UK economy, leaving it (us) in billions of national debt, and thats Ok its fine they can keep it all- and we go around attacking the poorest in society with punitive fiscal measures. Not to mention the millions in bonuses paid out to a handful of executives in my (your) banks. Sorry I think the Co's and Bros owes UK BIG time. An unemployed requires a job which are few and far between, totally disgraceful Osborne and Co. I think they (this cabinet) should be on PBR
    (Payment by Results) until they get the books balanced - as Gordon Brown managed to do _ I suppose it takes a Labour leader to do it.
    Haha, removing their profits does not leave our nation in debt. Bonuses being paid within a company are nothing to do with you or the public beyond acknowledgement of them, and people are not 'owed' a job.

    And Labour balanced the books? What a hilarious comparison. You mean the Government that was running at a deficit at the height of the economic boom? Yeah, they had the right idea :rolleyes:
 
 
 
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