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    (Original post by LexiswasmyNexis)
    So many tools on TSR. Every time someone wants to undermine a subject here, it's always

    1) I could learn that for free on the Internet; and

    2) What specific skills does X give you? What career does X qualify you for?

    Do you not believe it is important that a degree teaches skills for employment?

    I can't think of a single thing my degree has taught me, that will help me get a job. I wish I hadn't done it.

    I can't imagine that other essay-based subjects are much different. I mean perhaps they are. I could be wrong, but I think if a degree is going to cost £9,000 a year you really should be getting more out of it than very generic skills that don't set you apart from other graduates.
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    (Original post by ilickbatteries)
    I have a friend doing his final year of a four-year law programme.

    He isn't optimistic about finding a job. Apparently there are a lot more law graduates than there are law jobs.

    Best of luck to you. Hopefully in reality you're a much more eloquent and well-informed individual than you come across as on here
    I am
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    (Original post by RtGOAT)
    Maths gets far more complicated than that, and you know it.

    History does not get more complicated than recalling what happened in the past.
    Yes I do know it, that's my point and so does history get more complicated that 'recalling what happened in the past', what evidence are using for that other than just guesswork and assumptions to fit your argument?
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    (Original post by Rybee)
    I am
    Good lad
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    (Original post by halbeth)
    Beginning to become fairly certain you're a troll, but nevertheless...

    Go on then, I challenge you to do so. I'd be interested to see just how well you successfully 'learn' it.

    In answer to your question: your argument was that you can learn all there is to learn about history on wikipedia. I just gave you an example of why you can't. Your argument is invalid.
    There's no need to really 'learn' it though, especially in this day and age of mobile internet. If at a particular moment I'm interested say WWII I can spend few hours reading about it on the internet, satisfying my interest.

    If I ever needed to recall anything specific, not that I would because its pointless, I could quickly get my phone out and refresh my knowledge of said thing.

    History is only useful to satiate interest.
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    (Original post by RtGOAT)
    They could have done better degrees ad got the same jobs more easily and still nourished their interest in history via Wikipedia.
    So what sort of "better degree" do you do? :curious:
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    The original post showed 14 negs, I negged it and then it showed 16 negs!!1!!!one!11!! ohmygodimsoamazin
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    (Original post by RtGOAT)
    I'm not a science student.


    Could I find a cure for cancer using the internet in my room? No.


    Science is far more useful.
    Both are useful. History goes beyond just knowing about past events. You're oversimplifying real-life history applications, I suggest using the internet to research what historians do and how they contribute to society. Degrees aren't just about being able to cure cancer or save the world from global warming but about personal transformation and expanding your knowledge.

    p.s I think you'd find it hard to do a history degree purely on the internet, unless you'd want to spend hundreds or even thousands accessing the countless journal articles that you'd need to read.
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    (Original post by RtGOAT)
    There's no need to really 'learn' it though, especially in this day and age of mobile internet. If at a particular moment I'm interested say WWII I can spend few hours reading about it on the internet, satisfying my interest.

    If I ever needed to recall anything specific, not that I would because its pointless, I could quickly get my phone out and refresh my knowledge of said thing.

    History is only useful to satiate interest.
    If done properly it encourages you to question the information you receive, and to ensure you've properly researched and criticised your sources before you come to conclusions about the world. Spending a few hours reading about WWII on wikipedia will not achieve that.
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    (Original post by RtGOAT)
    But if it doesn't give you any specific job skills whats the point of doing it? Just feed your interest with Wikipedia.
    Say that to Hardy. He did so much for Mathematics solely to satisfy his own whims. He reveled in the fact that his area of discipline was useless and purely academic.
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    (Original post by Azarimanka)
    But people with a history degree could probably spell cycle, and know the difference between your and you're. Forgive me for calling you out as an idiot.
    Ooh spotting typos. Well done :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by RtGOAT)
    Maths gets far more complicated than that, and you know it.

    History does not get more complicated than recalling what happened in the past.
    I'm only doing history A Level and it is already more difficult than that.
    You have to be able to analyse a historians viewpoint of an event and contrast and compare.
    You also have to be able to formulate your own critical opinion on these events, for example was everything that happened in Nazi Germany purely down to Hitler or down to the way the regime was structured from top to bottom.
    To do this you would need to know the structure of the regime, understand the personal philosophy of the man and find evidence from the period of time (and other historians) to support your viewpoint.
    I think you will find it is more than "recalling what happened in the past"


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    I STRONGLY disagree with OP.

    The most common misconception people have about History is that it is an assortment of chronologically arranged facts that are "out there", simply waiting for us to "go out" and learn them, forever closed to reassessment, revaluation or fresh analysis.

    This however, is not true. Not only is new information constantly coming to the fore as a result of declassification of primary documents (as in the Ottoman and Russian Cold War archives) and archaeology, but new intellectual trends and analytical tools (such as post-colonial theory and spatial politics) are constantly emerging as well, which are helping us to look at these historical facts in a new light, helping us gain a more nuanced and more balanced understanding of the past.

    These developments are at the very cutting edge of Historical Studies. And as far as I can tell, these developments are only discussed and engaged with in higher education settings and not on "wikipedia" or in secondary schools, the latter specifically using a very nationalistic, watered down and somewhat less nuanced version of history.

    Not to mention, being a historian today has increasingly meant mastering a language or two (sometimes esoteric ones like Ancient Greek, Classical Arabic or Ottoman Turkish) before one can begin to search the archives for primary sources which are the building blocks of a historian's craft. These languages are highly specialized and can only be learned in universities or extremely specialized institutes. Reading and analysing these documents also requires the skills developed in a higher education setting.

    So if someone wants to be a historian today, he has to get undergraduate and post-graduate degrees in the subject.

    Lastly, all this reading and understanding complex processes and arguments inculcate in a person the sort of problem solving and thinking skills employers like. One cannot build such a formidable intellectual and analytical base by reading facts off "wikipedia" which is a non-peer reviewed, basic knowledge database for use to acquire "quick" facts.

    It has its uses but to suggest its a substitute for a degree is ludicrous.
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    (Original post by diggy)
    i like history for its vast array of answers and the way in which arguements are deduced and to say history is stupid is rather silly seeing as everything around us is formed by events in history ie. Margret Thatcher. It also provides a persons anaylitcal views to grow for instance i could have flamed you for hating on history but i'd rather attempt to find the logic for your ideas

    But i also like science for its direct approach because it allows to me understand how things work in a certain way and why they do
    I like history too, which is why I spend a lot of my spare time reading Wikipedia. There is no benefit of doing any more though.
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    (Original post by Emre944)
    So what sort of "better degree" do you do? :curious:
    I'm a man of leisure.
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    (Original post by The Owl of Minerva)
    I STRONGLY disagree with OP.

    The most common misconception people have about History is that it is an assortment of chronologically arranged facts that are "out there", simply waiting for us to "go out" and learn them, forever closed to reassessment, revaluation or fresh analysis.

    This however, is not true. Not only is new information constantly coming to the fore as a result of declassification of primary documents (as in the Ottoman and Russian Cold War archives) and archaeology, but new intellectual trends and analytical tools (such as post-colonial theory and spatial politics) are constantly emerging as well, which are helping us to look at these historical facts in a new light, helping us gain a more nuanced and more balanced understanding of the past.

    These developments are at the very cutting edge of Historical Studies. And as far as I can tell, these developments are only discussed and engaged with in higher education settings and not on "wikipedia" or in secondary schools, the latter specifically using a very nationalistic, watered down and somewhat less nuanced version of history.

    Not to mention, being a historian today has increasingly meant mastering a language or two (sometimes esoteric ones like Ancient Greek, Classical Arabic or Ottoman Turkish) before one can begin to search the archives for primary sources which are the building blocks of a historian's craft. These languages are highly specialized and can only be learned in universities or extremely specialized institutes. Reading and analysing these documents also requires the skills developed in a higher education setting.

    So if someone wants to be a historian today, he has to get undergraduate and post-graduate degrees in the subject.

    Lastly, all this reading and understanding complex processes and arguments inculcate in a person the sort of problem solving and thinking skills employers like. One cannot build such a formidable intellectual and analytical base by reading facts off "wikipedia" which is a non-peer reviewed, basic knowledge database for use to acquire "quick" facts.

    It has its uses but to suggest its a substitute for a degree is ludicrous.
    THIS.

    It's interesting how many people who think that history is just the pointless recitation of facts also seem prepared to blindly accept one version of the events presented to them. People need to wake up.
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    (Original post by RtGOAT)
    I'm a man of leisure.
    Hahaha, nice one.

    :troll:
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    (Original post by halbeth)
    THIS.

    It's interesting how many people who think that history is just the pointless recitation of facts also seem prepared to blindly accept one version of the events presented to them. People need to wake up.
    Indeed, as Eric Hobsbawm once said,

    "We have a duty to historical facts in general and the prevention of the politico-ideological abuse of history in particular".
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    (Original post by RtGOAT)
    There's no need to really 'learn' it though, especially in this day and age of mobile internet. If at a particular moment I'm interested say WWII I can spend few hours reading about it on the internet, satisfying my interest.

    If I ever needed to recall anything specific, not that I would because its pointless, I could quickly get my phone out and refresh my knowledge of said thing.

    History is only useful to satiate interest.
    So you believe that a society that does not critically engage with its past, that accepts hegemonic discourses and state preferred narratives without question is a society of responsible, intelligent citizens?

    They day you learn that you are not just a factor of production but are also expected to be a citizen in the proper sense of the word, you will learn the value of history.
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    History is a pretty useless and pointless degree by your argument.
    It's not going to save babies or cure cancer.
    But it'll teach people a greater understanding of our world, and give a much more interesting view of it.
    What's the point in being saved from dying if you're just going to live in a boring number filled world?
 
 
 
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