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Should ex-polytechnics be renamed or abolished? watch

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    [QUOTE=bestofyou;42205999]I suppose you want to abolish Hull/York and Peninsula Medical Schools due to them opening recently also?QUOTE]

    Just to point out, the university of Hull was never a polytechnic - it was established in 1927. You may be confusing it with Humberside polytechnic which used to occupy the site next to Hull University but was actually part of what is now Lincoln University.
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    (Original post by ChemistBoy)
    What is amazing is that many subjects studied in polytechnics had nationalised standards monitored through professional bodies. All of which was pretty much abolished through successive Tory education reforms.

    An example I know of well was the Royal Institute of Chemistry (now part of the RSC) graduateship exams. Anyone studying chemistry at a polytechnic would have to sit these exams to get their degree (actually a graduateship of the RIC) and they were renowned throughout the world for their rigour and difficulty ensuring a very high standard of vocationally trained chemists for industry. Of course this all came to an end in the early 90's as polytechnics no longer required the external validation and were allowed to apply their own standards. The same is true across many fields.

    tl;dr: We used to have all this for vocational education and it was abolished by previous governments.
    are you quite sure chemistry degrees were the exception to the pre '92 system where polytechnic student's degrees were awarded by the external cnaa?
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    (Original post by historygirl)
    Just to point out, the university of Hull was never a polytechnic - it was established in 1927. You may be confusing it with Humberside polytechnic which used to occupy the site next to Hull University but was actually part of what is now Lincoln University.
    No, I am not confusing it with anything. I am pointing out the fact that the medical school opened over 10years after the ex-polys got university status and much longer after the ex-polys themselves were first established.


    (Original post by ChemistBoy)
    What is amazing is that many subjects studied in polytechnics had nationalised standards monitored through professional bodies. All of which was pretty much abolished through successive Tory education reforms.

    An example I know of well was the Royal Institute of Chemistry (now part of the RSC) graduateship exams. Anyone studying chemistry at a polytechnic would have to sit these exams to get their degree (actually a graduateship of the RIC) and they were renowned throughout the world for their rigour and difficulty ensuring a very high standard of vocationally trained chemists for industry. Of course this all came to an end in the early 90's as polytechnics no longer required the external validation and were allowed to apply their own standards. The same is true across many fields.

    tl;dr: We used to have all this for vocational education and it was abolished by previous governments.

    Yeah, but for vocational subjects there is still external bodies that award accreditation. So to say that universities can put in whatever they want isn't exactly true. They usually strive towards getting the course accredited which requires them to include and therefore exclude certain things.
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    (Original post by Mad Vlad)
    Your point? My "bull**** worthless ex-poly degree" helped me bag a job with arguably the top company in my industry.
    What uni and what job?
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    (Original post by crunchychips)
    What uni and what job?
    Coventry University and I work in information security - I'd prefer to not share any more detail than that, though.
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    (Original post by bestofyou)
    Yeah, but for vocational subjects there is still external bodies that award accreditation. So to say that universities can put in whatever they want isn't exactly true. They usually strive towards getting the course accredited which requires them to include and therefore exclude certain things.
    Accreditation isn't the same as standardised assessment, which was what was being referred to by the post I was responding to.
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    (Original post by Joinedup)
    are you quite sure chemistry degrees were the exception to the pre '92 system where polytechnic student's degrees were awarded by the external cnaa?
    I'm sure that some institutions went through that route, but given the prestige of the GRIC, most definitely put their students through that external examination run by the Institute as it was what was really expected by industry at the time.
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    In many countries in continental Europe (Germany, Netherlands etc) there still is a distinction between research universities and vocational universities/polytechnics. Usually the research ones are simply called 'university' while the vocational ones are called 'university of applied sciences'. Unlike the UK, there is no stigma attached to this difference as many graduates from the vocational universities often do better in the job market. EU countries with this system often have one of the lowest rates of graduate unemployment. So, why shouldn't the UK have a similar system as well?
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    (Original post by ragex)
    Before you assume i'm saying "lets close them all down" - i'm not.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...ifferentiation

    In modern day Britain, the value of a degree is becoming ever more meaningless. People simply don't respect them anymore and view them as an easy-ride to avoid working for 3 years. At least that's what shelfstackers I currently work with view them as.

    And who can blame them? There's people I know who've worked 0% of the time at A-level, yet go off to the University of Easy Access to get a degree. They don't care about their subject, and how can they when these universities offer a degree in flipping Carpet Studies?

    I liked the pre-1992 system. Too many institutions now have the label 'university' which degrades the image of real, productive universities. By real, productive universities, I mean (for the majority) the Russell Group. They contribute in research.

    So, should ex-polytechnics and newer institutes be renamed, and not be able to award 'degrees'? Is it fair that they should award diplomas or something like that? Because at the rate we're going a boy called Dudley will be able to tell everyone "I went to university and got a degree!!" despite getting UUU at A-level.

    Discuss.
    My uni is an ex-poly and it does courses such as teaching and nursing, occupational therapy, radiography, etc. these are all professional courses which you do need a degree to do. Are you saying these professions are not needed in todays society?

    These courses are far more useful than, for example, an English or History degree which you might get at a 'traditional' university.

    To get into my uni you needed at least 280 ucas points which meant that you needed to get at least Cs and Bs in order to get this. No uni would let you in if you got a U grade.

    why dont you do some actual research before you start mouthing off about something you clearly know nothing about? :facepalm:
    still you and your fellow 'shelf-stackers' carry on insulting the people who will one day be treating you in hospital or teaching your children.
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    (Original post by Cattty)
    My uni is an ex-poly and it does courses such as teaching and nursing, occupational therapy, radiography, etc. these are all professional courses which you do need a degree to do. Are you saying these professions are not needed in todays society?

    These courses are far more useful than, for example, an English or History degree which you might get at a 'traditional' university.

    To get into my uni you needed at least 280 ucas points which meant that you needed to get at least Cs and Bs in order to get this. No uni would let you in if you got a U grade.

    why dont you do some actual research before you start mouthing off about something you clearly know nothing about? :facepalm:
    still you and your fellow 'shelf-stackers' carry on insulting the people who will one day be treating you in hospital or teaching your children.
    Tell that to major political parties, journalists etc..

    You are wrong. The easy unis (Edge Hill for example) have let people in with Us to do courses such as law.

    Sounds like you no nothing and so just throw angry tense comments at people who know what they're talking about.
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    (Original post by ohdearinsanityy)
    Tell that to major political parties, journalists etc..

    You are wrong. The easy unis (Edge Hill for example) have let people in with Us to do courses such as law.

    Sounds like you no nothing and so just throw angry tense comments at people who know what they're talking about.
    wtf? you think LAW is an easy degree?

    how is that an easy uni? edge hill is mainly a teacher training university, if it wasnt for teachers, you would never have got to uni.

    i know what im talking about here, its you who clearly doesnt
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    (Original post by Cattty)
    wtf? you think LAW is an easy degree?
    He/she didn't say law is an easy degree. In fact, the suggestion was that it should have higher entry requirements.

    how is that an easy uni?
    Because of (according to him) the low entry standards. It's clearly stated in the post.

    The offers are made using a points based system, so it is possible to get a U in one subject but still get 280 UCAS points overall. It's unlikely but not impossible.

    edge hill is mainly a teacher training university, if it wasnt for teachers, you would never have got to uni.
    I'm not saying I agree with the member you quoted, or that I don't recognise former polytechincs offer professional degrees (a number with high employability rates), but I don't follow your argument here.
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    (Original post by River85)
    He/she didn't say law is an easy degree. In fact, the suggestion was that it should have higher entry requirements.



    Because of (according to him) the low entry standards. It's clearly stated in the post.

    The offers are made using a points based system, so it is possible to get a U in one subject but still get 280 UCAS points overall. It's unlikely but not impossible.



    I'm not saying I agree with the member you quoted, or that I don't recognise former polytechincs offer professional degrees (a number with high employability rates), but I don't follow your argument here.
    edge hill uni specialises in teacher training courses. he seemed to be degrading the uni (saying it was an 'easy uni') what i am saying is that teaching is an improtant profession and without it he would not be where he is today.

    you would have to either do many a levels or get high marks in the others to get 280 points. you could not get it with all Us as he suggested
 
 
 
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