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    Im no genius but im revising quite heavily for regular gcses and I can safely say there is no way you could get an a* without revising, I could be wrong but in the vast majority of cases it is.

    Im realistically going to come out with 2 A*s if I work hard in my sciences in Physics and Chemistry - but then again I am a common state school dweller
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    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    Yeah, sorry if I came across as a ****. It's just that as a science student I've spent years in mixed ability science and maths classes with people saying 'when am I going to use this in real life' while I'm trying to learn.
    Here's the thing though, as a humanities student, in the years since I sat my GCSEs I have never utilised things like quadratic equations, algebraic functions, and all the rest of the stuff they teach you. In other words, it's frankly true.

    For science and maths there should be two streams: maths those who wish to undertake futher study in the sciences, and arithmetic for those who do not. Arithmetic gives you the essentials the 'things wot I will use'; maths then provides those such as yourself the training in the higher level elements.
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    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    I'd never suggest you were bad (I don't know how the IGCSEs work, are they harder than regular GCSEs? either way, well done) and I certainly didn't mean to imply that you were bad at science.

    It's just that the 'when will I use this' argument is a little annoying, as it's impossible to actually only teach people things they will need.

    For example, as a Chemist I could reasonably expected to never need to learn a programming language, and even if I'd chosen my degree course when I was 11 nobody would teach me to program because it's not usually necessary. It so happens that I've got a placement next year with a team working on a relatively new branch of analytical process chemistry, and I'm going to have to learn basic programming from scratch, never having done it before, which is going to be, I can safely say, a *****.
    They're linear basically - I only had 2 subjects with coursework, I think they're slightly harder than GCSEs.

    Fair enough.

    (Original post by MacDaddi)
    Im no genius but im revising quite heavily for regular gcses and I can safely say there is no way you could get an a* without revising, I could be wrong but in the vast majority of cases it is.

    Im realistically going to come out with 2 A*s if I work hard in my sciences in Physics and Chemistry - but then again I am a common state school dweller
    I got 7A*s, 3As and a surprise C
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    (Original post by obi_adorno_kenobi)
    Here's the thing though, as a humanities student, in the years since I sat my GCSEs I have never utilised things like quadratic equations, algebraic functions, and all the rest of the stuff they teach you. In other words, it's frankly true.

    For science and maths there should be two streams: maths those who wish to undertake futher study in the sciences, and arithmetic for those who do not. Arithmetic gives you the essentials the 'things wot I will use'; maths then provides those such as yourself the training in the higher level elements.
    But why only for sciences and Maths? Should there be two streams for English and humanities as well? Where I, as a scientist, would have only been taught basic grammar and punctuation in English and some basic General Studies/Critical Thinking in place of humanities?

    I've never really understood why people always complain about how they will never use their science and maths outside school, but for some reason reading entire books of some of the most boring poetry on Earth are useful (don't get me wrong, I love a good poem. The key word is, however, 'good').
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    I agree that you need to revise to get A*/A grades across the board. I was targeted all A/B grades and came out with C/B grades basically because i never gave a crap about coursework, had a lunatic Geography teacher who decided to cement my grade despite the fact i got an A on the higher mock and actually got an A in the coursework (she put me in for the pitifully easy foundation paper) and until i came to college had never revised in my life.

    In hindsight i wish i had because as much as i liked business i was always into science (meteorology, astronomy, volcanology) and politics came after i left school for the most part but i never perused them and to get anywhere in those fields there's an impression that you need the top grades from only certain universities for example.
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    (Original post by Qwertish)
    But why only for sciences and Maths? Should there be two streams for English and humanities as well? Where I, as a scientist, would have only been taught basic grammar and punctuation in English and some basic General Studies/Critical Thinking in place of humanities?
    No, there shouldn't, because ultimately the humanities aren't compulsory after KS3 unlike the profound uselessness that is, for most, GCSE maths and GCSE science. English is slightly separate from this argument since I think we all agree that it's a necessity to be able to communicate fully with the society we live in!

    It's also important, I believe, to create rounded human beings which is where poetry and literature come into it. I think what it's necessary for you to realise is that science is enjoyable by only a small part of the population whereas everyone can enjoy reading literature, listening to music, and enjoy the beauty of visual imagery in poetry.

    I've never really understood why people always complain about how they will never use their science and maths outside school, but for some reason reading entire books of some of the most boring poetry on Earth are useful (don't get me wrong, I love a good poem. The key word is, however, 'good').
    Well that's a matter of individual taste. I don't have much of a head for poetry - beside the work of Keats, Shelley and Byron - and I too loathe reading entire books of some of the most boring poetry ever written but I know that the skills I gained enabled me to go off and appreciate the poets I do enjoy even more. Wading through Kipling enhanced rather than detracted from my love of Shelley. I cannot, under any circumstances, however, say that learning how to complete quadratic equations has given me any kind of skill in that type of mathematics. When I say, with a firm conviction, that the majority of the maths and science I learned in school was useless that's what I mean.
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    (Original post by obi_adorno_kenobi)
    No, there shouldn't, because ultimately the humanities aren't compulsory after KS3 unlike the profound uselessness that is, for most, GCSE maths and GCSE science. English is slightly separate from this argument since I think we all agree that it's a necessity to be able to communicate fully with the society we live in!

    It's also important, I believe, to create rounded human beings which is where poetry and literature come into it. I think what it's necessary for you to realise is that science is enjoyable by only a small part of the population whereas everyone can enjoy reading literature, listening to music, and enjoy the beauty of visual imagery in poetry.



    Well that's a matter of individual taste. I don't have much of a head for poetry - beside the work of Keats, Shelley and Byron - and I too loathe reading entire books of some of the most boring poetry ever written but I know that the skills I gained enabled me to go off and appreciate the poets I do enjoy even more. Wading through Kipling enhanced rather than detracted from my love of Shelley. I cannot, under any circumstances, however, say that learning how to complete quadratic equations has given me any kind of skill in that type of mathematics. When I say, with a firm conviction, that the majority of the maths and science I learned in school was useless that's what I mean.
    Okay, fair enough with the humanities.

    But with English, I disagree that GCSE English is needed to communicate. Like with Science and Maths, by the end of KS3 you know how to read and write, you're taught spelling, grammar and punctuation, you're taught how to write a letter. That's the equivalent to learning arithmetic and how to do your taxes in Maths, which is also all done by KS3.

    I can safely say that, as a scientist, I have never needed, and will probably never need, to know how I felt when it turned out that Boo Radley was the rescuer or the underlying imagery present in Duffy's 'November's in my usual life.

    Of course, learning English has made me a more well rounded person, but the second can be said for a humanities student who knows some science and maths. Trust me when I say I find no enjoyment in finding the underlying imagery in a poem, my A in English has more to do with the brilliant notes my teacher gave me than interest and understanding on my part. Whilst you say everyone can find enjoyment in poetry, I say everyone can find enjoyment in understanding how the world works. It's quite remarkable how a few equations can describe everything from a car moving on a road to planets orbiting a black hole.

    It's important to have all three in order to be a well rounded person. Additionally, if they make any one of the three optional, it will force children to choose their subject even earlier. I know someone who was going to to do Chemistry right up until the second week of the AS course, then he dropped all his sciences and switched to English and History.
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    (Original post by Qwertish)
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    Well, we're not going to agree on that line of argument because you'll never convince me that maths and science are more important than English which is at the very core of our learning. As it happens, I'm entirely comfortable with students choosing their direction at an earlier stage in life because it will save a lot of people being turned off education by doing things they do not enjoy.

    By the way, you've still not effectively countered the accusation that maths and science impart useless knowledge. You claim that "It's quite remarkable how a few equations can describe everything from a car moving on a road to planets orbiting a black hole", but do you honestly believe that people are going to have conversations in the street discussing it in speed=distance/time terms? Or is it going to be in terms of - that Ferrari's moving pretty quick, eh. Description, that richness of language you learn by continuing to engage with study of English, enables to you discuss the world around you far more easily than the language of mathematics.
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    (Original post by obi_adorno_kenobi)
    Well, we're not going to agree on that line of argument because you'll never convince me that maths and science are more important than English which is at the very core of our learning. As it happens, I'm entirely comfortable with students choosing their direction at an earlier stage in life because it will save a lot of people being turned off education by doing things they do not enjoy.

    By the way, you've still not effectively countered the accusation that maths and science impart useless knowledge. You claim that "It's quite remarkable how a few equations can describe everything from a car moving on a road to planets orbiting a black hole", but do you honestly believe that people are going to have conversations in the street discussing it in speed=distance/time terms? Or is it going to be in terms of - that Ferrari's moving pretty quick, eh. Description, that richness of language you learn by continuing to engage with study of English, enables to you discuss the world around you far more easily than the language of mathematics.
    I'm not trying to say maths and science are more important than English. I'm trying to say that they're just as important.

    And you, equally, have not countered the argument English imparts useless knowledge. Where will I ever need to analyse a poem? The key point is everything at GCSE is useless if you're not pursuing the subject further. However, its all important in creating a well rounded person.

    All I'm saying, and I was playing Devil's advocate slightly, is that all three are equally important. To be a well rounded person you should be able to appreciate all three things.
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    (Original post by Qwertish)
    Where will I ever need to analyse a poem?
    It's not about the poem, it's about the teaching of analytical skills which as far as I know will be required in the work place.
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    (Original post by Krack)
    It's not about the poem, it's about the teaching of analytical skills which as far as I know will be required in the work place.
    Yep, but science and maths teach logical problem solving skills that will be required in the work place.

    I'm just trying to show all the arguments that can be put forward to say why Science and Maths should be optional can also be applied to English. All three should remain compulsory.
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    Wouldn't the money spent on education be better allocated on welfare/healthcare, providing for the needy rather than stroking the egos of a punch of pseudo-intellectual closet socialist teachers?
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    (Original post by Krack)
    It's not about the poem, it's about the teaching of analytical skills which as far as I know will be required in the work place.
    Could easily be argued that there are much better ways of teaching these analytical skills.
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    (Original post by Echofoursix)
    Wouldn't the money spent on education be better allocated on welfare/healthcare, providing for the needy rather than stroking the egos of a punch of pseudo-intellectual closet socialist teachers?
    Erm, no. An effective education system coupled with a better job market will reduce welfare costs since more people will be in work.

    You're proposing we don't educate people, and the Government just gives everyone a dole. Where are the Government going to get the dole money from? Taxes. But everyone's on the dole. Hm. (That was hyperbole, but you get the idea.)

    Additionally, you're calling teachers 'closet socialists', but that's a rather communist proposal right there...
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    (Original post by Qwertish)
    Erm, no. An effective education system coupled with a better job market will reduce welfare costs since more people will be in work.

    You're proposing we don't educate people, and the Government just gives everyone a dole. Where are the Government going to get the dole money from? Taxes. But everyone's on the dole. Hm. (That was hyperbole, but you get the idea.)

    Additionally, you're calling teachers 'closet socialists', but that's a rather communist proposal right there...
    Nothing communist about socialism. After all, the communists fought the national socialists in the second world war.
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    (Original post by Qwertish)
    Yep, but science and maths teach logical problem solving skills that will be required in the work place.

    I'm just trying to show all the arguments that can be put forward to say why Science and Maths should be optional can also be applied to English. All three should remain compulsory.
    While that is true, English teaches it in regards to English and if you ever do a report and you need to analyse anything within the report and sources, it would be easier having analysed poems than it would be from analysing numbers in my opinion.
    (Original post by Smack)
    Could easily be argued that there are much better ways of teaching these analytical skills.
    That is true.
    (Original post by Echofoursix)
    Nothing communist about socialism. After all, the communists fought the national socialists in the second world war.
    The Nazis were not socialist.
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    (Original post by Krack)
    While that is true, English teaches it in regards to English and if you ever do a report and you need to analyse anything within the report and sources, it would be easier having analysed poems than it would be from analysing numbers in my opinion.

    That is true.

    The Nazis were not socialist.
    The government pretty much ran the economy under the Nazis, and they were virulently anti-capitalist on the grounds that it was a Jewish conspiracy that corrupted the German people.
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    (Original post by Echofoursix)
    Nothing communist about socialism. After all, the communists fought the national socialists in the second world war.
    That doesn't mean ****. The communists were also allied with the capitalists in WWII.

    It's beside the point anyway. Your proposal was a bad idea.
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    (Original post by Krack)
    While that is true, English teaches it in regards to English and if you ever do a report and you need to analyse anything within the report and sources, it would be easier having analysed poems than it would be from analysing numbers in my opinion.
    I'm not denying that. Analysis in English and analysis in science and maths teach you two different skills. I'm for keeping all three compulsory.
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    (Original post by Echofoursix)
    The government pretty much ran the economy under the Nazis, and they were virulently anti-capitalist on the grounds that it was a Jewish conspiracy that corrupted the German people.
    That doesn't make them socialist... Technically, they were fascist.
 
 
 
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