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People who think being academic means intelligence watch

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    (Original post by jack-1)
    I've seen plenty of dumb dumbs get good GCSE grades.

    All I'm gonna say is you can't teach common sense.
    Does common sense even exist though? What makes it sound, rather than nonsensical rubbish most people believe?
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    (Original post by justinawe)
    Such as who?

    Most examples of famous "inventors" who had no higher education were in fact entrepreneurs, not actual inventors.

    For a start - Edison & the inventor of the submarine
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    (Original post by Zenomorph)
    For a start - Edison & the inventor of the submarine
    "For a start", or that's all you could think of?

    What you said was:

    Most famous inventors never even went to Uni !
    "Most famous inventors" - you're claiming that the majority of famous inventors had to higher education!

    Let's not forget that in Thomas Edison's time (and especially in William Bourne's time, though I'm rather skeptical towards your claim that a mathematician like William Bourne had no higher education), going to university was nowhere near as common as it is now. These days, almost anyone can go to uni, and loans are easily obtainable.
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    (Original post by justinawe)
    "For a start", or that's all you could think of?

    What you said was:



    "Most famous inventors" - you're claiming that the majority of famous inventors had to higher education!

    Let's not forget that in Thomas Edison's time (and especially in William Bourne's time, though I'm rather skeptical towards your claim that a mathematician like William Bourne had no higher education), going to university was nowhere near as common as it is now. These days, almost anyone can go to uni, and loans are easily obtainable.

    I said for a START - do you not understand what that means ?

    Even if was was just the two , that's quite a statement. Edison is responsible for nearly everything in the modern world. And the submarine is a huge invention.

    You can also add: Ford, Tesla, Abe Lincoln John D Rockefeller.

    Yes maybe not all are strictly inventors but few intelligent people would doubt their importance in our world and there are many more..

    Why are you so angry about this fact, do you somehow feel threatened by it ?
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    (Original post by Zenomorph)
    I said for a START - do you not understand what that means ?

    Even if was was just the two , that's quite a statement. Edison is responsible for nearly everything in the modern world. And the submarine is a huge invention.

    You can also add: Ford, Tesla, Abe Lincoln John D Rockefeller.

    Yes maybe not all are strictly inventors but few intelligent people would doubt their importance in our world and there are many more..

    Why are you so angry about this fact, do you somehow feel threatened by it ?
    :facepalm2: yes, I know what it means... I was questioning whether it truly was just "a start", or whether those two were in fact all you could think of.

    Tesla did go to uni, though he didn't graduate.

    Please realise that I'm not taking issue with the fact that you don't have to be academic to be intelligent. I am definitely not disputing this. What I am taking issue with is your ridiculous claim that "most famous inventors never even went to Uni".

    We're talking about inventors here, not just "important people". Had you maybe said something like "many successful people didn't even go to uni", I wouldn't have a problem with that at all. Entrepreneurs can be successful, and are important, but they are not inventors.

    Angry? If anything, you seem to be the one getting worked up just because I'm disputing this so-called "fact" of yours :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Zenomorph)
    For a start - Edison & the inventor of the submarine
    Oh, are you another one of those people who think that just because Einstein, for instance, allegedly performed poorly in high school, but was successful later on, that your poor performance is justifiable? :facepalm:
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    Totally agree with this, you don't need to do academia to be intelligent


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    (Original post by tory88)
    I think academic attainment is definitely an indicator of intelligence, certainly once at A level or higher standard, but it certainly isn't the only one. I know some very in-tune people who didn't go to university and some very stupid ones who did.
    Don't you know people who aren't particularly intelligent that have good A-levels and a decent degree? Academic attainment is largely down to work ethic in my opinion, intelligence contributes but you don't need to be in Mensa to get a top degree from a top university, and I bet there's plenty in Mensa who wouldn't get a first at a top uni.
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    I personally define intelligence as being able to understand certain things more easily than the average person and/or having a particular gift in something, be it music, mathematics or literature etc.
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    I get straight A's at A level and my friends are always like 'You are you so clever?!?!' I don't see myself as clever because all I do is memorise a textbook, and that is not intelligence it is just having a good memory.
    To me, intelligence is being able to make up your own, useful ideas rather than just reading others and remembering them.
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    (Original post by The Essayist)
    Oh, are you another one of those people who think that just because Einstein, for instance, allegedly performed poorly in high school, but was successful later on, that your poor performance is justifiable? :facepalm:
    This is a myth, btw. Einstein was always a fantastic maths/science student in school (perhaps he performed poorly in other subjects, though that is obviously irrelevant to a physicist) - he mastered differential and integral calculus before the age of 14/15 iirc.
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    (Original post by Zenomorph)
    I said for a START - do you not understand what that means ?

    Even if was was just the two , that's quite a statement. Edison is responsible for nearly everything in the modern world. And the submarine is a huge invention.

    You can also add: Ford, Tesla, Abe Lincoln John D Rockefeller.

    Yes maybe not all are strictly inventors but few intelligent people would doubt their importance in our world and there are many more..

    Why are you so angry about this fact, do you somehow feel threatened by it ?
    http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla

    It's a comic, but it's backed up with evidence. Edison was not a great inventor he was an opportunist who stole most of Tesla's inventions.
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    (Original post by M1011)
    Don't you know people who aren't particularly intelligent that have good A-levels and a decent degree? Academic attainment is largely down to work ethic in my opinion, intelligence contributes but you don't need to be in Mensa to get a top degree from a top university, and I bet there's plenty in Mensa who wouldn't get a first at a top uni.
    That's because Mensa people are not that intelligent. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by The Essayist)
    That's because Mensa people are not that intelligent. :rolleyes:
    Terribly witty comment. Top 2%.

    Anyway, the point stands. Work ethic is more important than intelligence when it comes to academic attainment (and probably when it comes to most other things as well to be honest).
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    (Original post by M1011)
    Terribly witty comment. Top 2%.

    Anyway, the point stands. Work ethic is more important than intelligence when it comes to academic attainment (and probably when it comes to most other things as well to be honest).
    The top 2% of people are at Cambridge/Oxford ("STEP is supposed to be difficult: it is aimed at the top 2% or so of all A-level candidates" - http://www.maths.cam.ac.uk/undergrad...ions/guide.pdf and
    "Generally speaking, we are looking for the top 1 or 2 % in any examination system." - http://www.queens.cam.ac.uk/page-45), not some crappy university despite their Mensa membership. Using that logic, all Mensa members should have gone to Cambridge/Oxford if they had the opportunity to, which I doubt very much. IQ is a terrible measure of intelligence, I would argue that academia is a much better measure although both are terribly flawed.
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    (Original post by The Essayist)
    The top 2% of people are at Cambridge/Oxford, not some crappy university despite their Mensa membership. Using that logic, all Mensa members should have gone to Cambridge/Oxford if they had the opportunity to, which I doubt very much. IQ is a terrible measure of intelligence, I would argue that academia is a much better measure although both are terribly flawed.
    Are you literally ignoring what I'm saying? I'm specifically saying that intelligence isn't particularly important (within reason) to academic attainment. I couldn't have made that point any clearer? So the bold above is just a ridiculous statement.

    Nor am I debating Mensa, it was clearly just a generic 'intelligent group' I used. You seem somewhat bitter towards the subject? You're entitled to your opinion on the likes of IQ (which I would agree is flawed), but surely you would agree to succeed academically you need knowledge, so by your measure someone who doesn't partake in higher education literally can't be intelligent?
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    (Original post by M1011)
    Are you literally ignoring what I'm saying? I'm specifically saying that intelligence isn't particularly important (within reason) to academic attainment. I couldn't have made that point any clearer? So the bold above is just a ridiculous statement.

    Nor am I debating Mensa, it was clearly just a generic 'intelligent group' I used. You seem somewhat bitter towards the subject? You're entitled to your opinion on the likes of IQ (which I would agree is flawed), but surely you would agree to succeed academically you need knowledge, so by your measure someone who doesn't partake in higher education literally can't be intelligent?
    All I am saying is, if someone is supposedly extremely intelligent (in the top 2% of the population) then surely they would be at a university who takes the top 2% - you do realise that even Oxbridge used to give out EE offers to exceptional candidates because of their innate intelligence, not academic achievement? Also, why would an intelligent person not partake in higher education? I can't see why they would waste their intelligence on menial jobs and so forth.
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    (Original post by justinawe)
    :facepalm2: yes, I know what it means... I was questioning whether it truly was just "a start", or whether those two were in fact all you could think of.

    Tesla did go to uni, though he didn't graduate.

    Please realise that I'm not taking issue with the fact that you don't have to be academic to be intelligent. I am definitely not disputing this. What I am taking issue with is your ridiculous claim that "most famous inventors never even went to Uni".

    We're talking about inventors here, not just "important people". Had you maybe said something like "many successful people didn't even go to uni", I wouldn't have a problem with that at all. Entrepreneurs can be successful, and are important, but they are not inventors.

    Angry? If anything, you seem to be the one getting worked up just because I'm disputing this so-called "fact" of yours :rolleyes:

    I simply stated a fact and you reacted like you were personally insulted - read over your own posts cause you seem to have a bad memory as well as being angry.

    I said most inventors did not go to UNIVERSITY, a poly is NOT a UNI,I doubt you know what it means otherwise you would not have made the same mistake twice. So you are wrong - he didn't go to uni he attended a polytechnic, dropped out. It then became a uni much later.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla

    I am using ' invent ' in the broad sense of the word:

    Ford invented the modern mass motor industry, Rockefeller did the same for Oil and banking.

    But how about:

    Wright brothers - aeroplane

    Pellegrino Turri - type writer

    Leonardo da Vinci - too many inventions to list

    László Széchenyi - submarine radios

    Thomas Newcomen - steam engine

    Wal Disney - animation and theme park design

    Also the inventors of gunpower, paper, printing, compass, stirrup, foundations of mathematics and most invention pre 1800.

    Fact that most people did not go to uni till recently actually supports my point.

    There it is - most of the most important inventions to mankind made by non university people. I think that proves my point and I don't think any further discussion is going to be meaningful.
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    (Original post by The Essayist)
    All I am saying is, if someone is supposedly extremely intelligent (in the top 2% of the population) then surely they would be at a university who takes the top 2% - you do realise that even Oxbridge used to give out EE offers to exceptional candidates because of their innate intelligence, not academic achievement? Also, why would an intelligent person not partake in higher education? I can't see why they would waste their intelligence on menial jobs and so forth.
    I'm starting to feel like you're not the brightest spark yourself... My exact argument is that intelligence is not a good measure of academic ability. People who work hard, have a passion for their subject and a drive to succeed are the ones that get the best grades and earn their places in the best university. Some will be very intelligent as well, others will not.

    As for your final comment, you believe university is a pre-requisite for success?
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    (Original post by M1011)
    I'm starting to feel like you're not the brightest spark yourself...
    Oh, an ad hominem attack.
    Some will be very intelligent as well, others will not.
    How can you prove such a spurious assertion?
 
 
 
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