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    No, I get that the placebo effect can be useful. Obviously it is less useful than any drug (as that will provide the placebo effect as a minimum, plus its actual drug effects), but if there is absolutely no treatment for a disease, placebos can be helpful.

    What is not helpful, however, is pretending that these placebos are in any way a replacement for or alternative to medicine. Lying to people is not an acceptable practice in medicine.
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    (Original post by Pinkhead)
    Well that confirms my thoughts. Your mum, a homeopathy doctor, told you that homeopathy works. I've also spent the last half an hour checking for peer reviewed papers on it but have not succeeded. I guess I will have to remain unconvinced.
    Which is totally fine I mean i'm not completely convinced myself, i'm just talking from that fact it has worked for me in the past. As someone who is studying the sciences it does go completely against my instinct to say it does work
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    (Original post by Dalilsp)
    Years and years and years ago, "rigorous scientific study" proved that the world was flat. Are you so narrow-minded that the technology of the future may disprove us yet again like it has so many times about the other topics we thought to be true.
    Common misconception. The earth was proven to be round for thousands of years.
    It's also not about what the future will disprove. Current knowledge states that homeopathy does not work as anything but a placebo and therefore that is the knowledge we will use.
    Do you use Chinese herbs because in the future they might be shown to work?

    Again, everything is a matter of opinion. Why are you angered by other people believing something that you don't? How does it affect you...?
    No it's not. The Earth being round is not an opinion and this isn't either.
    It affects everyone because crackpots are selling 'alternative' medicine that is inhibiting the real medical industry and making false promises.
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    (Original post by Tyrion_Lannister)
    And yet you are stating that something absolutely cannot work for every individual despite the fact that there are noted cases when certain people react weirdly to different things. Conventional medicine reacts oddly with me, I can give you several examples.

    I'm not trying to make anyone take homeopathy or anything, it's just my view
    Can you not see the big difference between a drug having an adverse effect and a remedy not working at all?

    Promoting homeopathy in any way can prove dangerous.
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    (Original post by Tabzqt)
    Can you not see the big difference between a drug having an adverse effect and a remedy not working at all?

    Promoting homeopathy in any way can prove dangerous.
    No point mate, people will believe what they want to believe. I shouldn't have got myself involved in this discussion in retrospect.
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    (Original post by Tabzqt)
    Can you not see the big difference between a drug having an adverse effect and a remedy not working at all?

    Promoting homeopathy in any way can prove dangerous.
    You're looking at it literally. What I meant was that scientifically there is no reason for it to happen, and yet it did. Therefore, why is it so hard to think that for some people, homeopathy works?

    Why? I'm not saying anyone should use it, I'm saying it works for me.
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    (Original post by Dalilsp)
    Years and years and years ago, "rigorous scientific study" proved that the world was flat. Are you so narrow-minded that the technology of the future may disprove us yet again like it has so many times about the other topics we thought to be true.

    Again, everything is a matter of opinion. Why are you angered by other people believing something that you don't? How does it affect you...?
    What an idiotic post.
    I didn't say we should completely disregard Homeopathy forever, but at this current stage we have absolutely no evidence to suggest it works. Therefore, we should not believe it at this point in time. If new evidence for Homeopathy presents itself somehow, I will immediately admit I am wrong.

    Science is most certainly not a matter of opinion. I am angered by idiocy and people believing things with absolutely no evidence.
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    (Original post by Tabzqt)
    What an idiotic post.
    I didn't say we should completely disregard Homeopathy forever, but at this current stage we have absolutely no evidence to suggest it works. Therefore, we should not believe it at this point in time. If new evidence for Homeopathy presents itself somehow, I will immediately admit I am wrong.

    Science is most certainly not a matter of opinion. I am angered by idiocy and people believing things with absolutely no evidence.
    Then you're going to be a very angry person
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    (Original post by Pinkhead)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bach_flower_remedies

    Not exactly homoeopathy but pretty damn close.
    I was referring to putting it in water as opposed to the actual products. Still, interesting, I didn't know they were so dilute already. I did however consider them to only work via placebo effect.
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    It's a loud of rubbish. Doesn't it follow the principle that there is 1 drop of the poison or cause of ailment diluted in like billions of drops of water? So every thing that is water based has some sort of homeopathic remedy in it? It relies on the placebo effect and natural fluctuations of illness which tends to go through bad and good cycles.
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    (Original post by Tyrion_Lannister)
    You're looking at it literally. What I meant was that scientifically there is no reason for it to happen, and yet it did. Therefore, why is it so hard to think that for some people, homeopathy works?

    Why? I'm not saying anyone should use it, I'm saying it works for me.
    I don't see the point in bringing in this anesthetic example, since it is just an anecdote, I have no proof or anything in front of me?
    The fact remains that numerous double-blind tests have consistently shown that Homeopathy simply doesn't work. Although there may be individual cases such as yours where you have seen positive effects, this has been shown to be the result of the Placebo effect rather than any actual remedy.
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    (Original post by Tabzqt)
    I don't see the point in bringing in this anesthetic example, since it is just an anecdote, I have no proof or anything in front of me?
    The fact remains that numerous double-blind tests have consistently shown that Homeopathy simply doesn't work. Although there may be individual cases such as yours where you have seen positive effects, this has been shown to be the result of the Placebo effect rather than any actual remedy.
    I'm bringing it up because this is opinion, and experience, and this is what happened.

    I'm not disputing that, I'm claiming it works for me. Correct me if I'm wrong but for a placebo to work you have to believe it will work. I took it believing it would do jack, and yet it worked. A hell of a lot better than any prescribed **** I'd been given. All I can go on is what works
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    (Original post by Tyrion_Lannister)
    I'm bringing it up because this is opinion, and experience, and this is what happened.

    I'm not disputing that, I'm claiming it works for me. Correct me if I'm wrong but for a placebo to work you have to believe it will work. I took it believing it would do jack, and yet it worked. A hell of a lot better than any prescribed **** I'd been given. All I can go on is what works
    Well, if it works so well for you why don't you claim the $1 Million prize? All you'd have to do is take a double-blind test with positive results and the money is yours I'd certainly do it if I were you.
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    (Original post by Tabzqt)
    Well, if it works so well for you why don't you claim the $1 Million prize? All you'd have to do is take a double-blind test with positive results and the money is yours I'd certainly do it if I were you.
    Because I'm not claiming it works for everyone or trying to push it
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    (Original post by Tyrion_Lannister)
    Because I'm not claiming it works for everyone or trying to push it
    Can you explain why it doesn't work for everyone?
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    (Original post by Tyrion_Lannister)
    I'm bringing it up because this is opinion, and experience, and this is what happened.

    I'm not disputing that, I'm claiming it works for me. Correct me if I'm wrong but for a placebo to work you have to believe it will work. I took it believing it would do jack, and yet it worked. A hell of a lot better than any prescribed **** I'd been given. All I can go on is what works
    You're wrong. Somebody linked to an article on literally the previous page showing a study that (at the very least) suggests knowledge that it's a placebo doesn't have an impact.

    Also, you took some homeopathy, and something happened. This does not imply a causal link between the two events.

    Man this thread is annoying.
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    I never understood why people expect such strict requirements for modern medicine, so much so that they will sue for even minor problems. Because of this, the medical industry is one of the most well-tested and safe in the world.

    But when it comes to alternative medicine, it's suddenly ok to take quack pills with no science behind them and it becomes 'opinion'.
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    The 'it works for me' argument is a poor one. Medicine is based on evidence not anecdotes.

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    (Original post by You Failed)
    This is actually very interesting, I was unaware that such things as 'rescue remedy' which is widely marketed as being effective, have basis in 'vibrational' medicine (i.e utter nonsense) rather than some proven mechanism.

    The reason I say this is very surprising is because upon going into boots and asking if there was anything off the shelf that I could take for anxiety, I was directed towards rescue remedy and told it should help. Of course it did little to help, other than perhaps the small amount of brandy in it.

    This now actually makes me feel pretty angry as people should under no circumstances be lead to believe by a pharmacy that a vibrational medicine is going to be a suitable and effective remedy to a problem. They should always be directed towards medicines which are actually proven to work. Equally, medicines which are of...spiritual inclination should be clearly labelled as such.

    If people want to go ahead and waste their money on, franky, crackpot theories, which are going to do nothing to improve their health beyond what placebo would do, then that is their decision. People who have a bit more sense should not be mislead to believe that these medicines are actually valid alternatives and thus have their health sacrificed.
    And there we have it boys and girls, the magic remedy!
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    (Original post by dgeorge)
    And there we have it boys and girls, the magic remedy!
    Definitely wouldn't disagree with that :P
 
 
 
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