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Isn't it about time that attitudes changed towards rape? Watch

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    (Original post by Eljamaispa)
    If they have a penis. Otherwise it's sexual assault.
    Why try and correct someone without researching it first?


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    (Original post by Eljamaispa)
    If they have a penis. Otherwise it's sexual assault.
    This is true. It's just a matter of definitions. If a man is tied up by a woman at a point where he happens to have an unwanted erection and she forces it into her, he can report her and have her charged, and she will be punished. It's not an unfair practice.
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    (Original post by LewisG123)
    Why try and correct someone without researching it first?
    Here:

    Rape

    (1)A person (A) commits an offence if—
    (a)he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,
    (b)B does not consent to the penetration, and
    (c)A does not reasonably believe that B consents.

    Sexual Off
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    (Original post by Millie228)
    This is true. It's just a matter of definitions. If a man is tied up by a woman at a point where he happens to have an unwanted erection and she forces it into her, he can report her and have her charged, and she will be punished. It's not an unfair practice.
    I'd love to know what some people's sources are, whatever they are they're wrong. Women can be charged with rape for millionth time

    Please explain this then:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/2521053.stm


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    I wholeheartedly agree OP. Many countries have already made laws on sexual crimes more equal by doing away with the term 'rape' and expanding the definition of sexual assault to include all forms of sexual violence (I believe Canada is one of these countries).

    I think this is definitely a good thing. The term 'rape' provokes a stronger emotional response than 'sexual assault', thus when someone is convicted of (or even just charged with) sexual assault, the public is generally not going to respond as negatively towards this person than if they were convicted of rape.

    The argument "well women can be convicted of sexual assault, which can carry the same sentence as rape, so we don't need to do anything" reminds me of an argument used by the anti-gay marriage; "a civil partnership is basically the same thing as marriage, why can't you be happy with that?" The latter argument is generally considered to be poor and we shouldn't be happy with the idea of 'the same but different' when it comes to social unions, and yet the analogous argument when it comes to sexual violence law is considered to be acceptable, or at least not questioned to the extent.
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    (Original post by SkinnyKat)
    Nah, in what way was my post hysterical? Go on, describe how I am a screaming misandrist?

    It's fine if this is to be a discussion on male victims of rape. I'm cool with that and I think I'd like to join in the discussion. However, I do have a big problem with these type of threads which then turn into a blame women for everything session. The OP wants the law to be changed, fine, so do I. But is it really helpful to then accuse women of wanting everything to be in their favour? Go back, read some of the comments and then you'll see why I ask whether you guys really do want to help male victims or just put women down.
    I didn't say you were hysterical. I was however somewhat alarmed by such hint-of-second-wave phrases as "written and enforced by men - yes, MEN with penises", as well as your male-victim-trivialising comment on statistics and seeming assumption that anything which advances an issue for men regresses it women. Aside from an idiot on the first page, I haven't seen much misogyny in this thread. There's always a few who will try and take a thread like this off on a sexist tangent, but I don't see how this is a "blame women for everything" session.

    Fact is, male victims of rape and sexual assault are possibly the most trivialised thing that I know of. I get a bit defensive and may have been more harsh that you deserved, for which I'm sorry.

    On the topic of the thread then: the current approach to rape as a social issue is to assume that all men are potential rapists, and all women are potential victims. It's thought that this is one reason why men are unlikely to report - it's not supposed to happen to men, so you must be "less of a man" if it happens to you. Men get laughed out of police stations for trying to report a sexual assault, all support services are set up for women, and so on. There are a lot of barriers. I agree with the OP, but I'm far more concerned with getting people reporting than with what we're going to call it.
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    (Original post by LewisG123)
    I'd love to know what some people's sources are, whatever they are they're wrong. Women can be charged with rape for millionth time

    Please explain this then:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/2521053.stm


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    It is clear from the article that it is an exception due to the fact that she "encouraged rape". So yes she can have the sentence, but there has to be a man involved to 'insert the penis'. She was charged because she helped.
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    (Original post by mmmpie)

    On the topic of the thread then: the current approach to rape as a social issue is to assume that all men are potential rapists, and all women are potential victims. It's thought that this is one reason why men are unlikely to report - it's not supposed to happen to men, so you must be "less of a man" if it happens to you. Men get laughed out of police stations for trying to report a sexual assault, all support services are set up for women, and so on. There are a lot of barriers. I agree with the OP, but I'm far more concerned with getting people reporting than with what we're going to call it.
    I agree with that. I think it's due to the culture of masculinity surrounding men and gender stereotypes. But I also think men (in general) don't respond well to measures to try to change the view that men should be tough and never show weakness. For example, and sorry for bringing up feminism again, I've heard a lot of men accusing feminism of trying to "emasculate" them.

    Raising awareness would be a start and making it compulsory for the police to investigate any sexual abuse complaint regardless of gender. But it will take a while for the stigma of being a male victim to go away.
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    (Original post by Millie228)
    It is clear from the article that it is an exception due to the fact that she "encouraged rape". So yes she can have the sentence, but there has to be a man involved to 'insert the penis'. She was charged because she helped.
    "Home Office figures show between 1995 and 1999, 18 women were convicted of rape or aiding and abetting it, but most of those were against children." - I think it's highly unlikely they're all merely helping


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    (Original post by LewisG123)
    "Home Office figures show between 1995 and 1999, 18 women were convicted of rape or aiding and abetting it, but most of those were against children." - I think it's highly unlikely they're all merely helping


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    Women can't be convicted of rape as a principal offender. The Sexual Offences Act 2003, which has already been quoted to you above, specifically refers to penetration by a penis in relation to both 'rape' offences (sections 1 and 5, if you don't believe me). Thus, the only way a woman can be convicted of full-blown rape is where they aid, abet, counsel or procure a man to rape someone, and are charged with the same offence as an accomplice.
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    (Original post by Cable)
    Do feminists (generally) only want equality where it suits women afterall?
    Yes.
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    (Original post by ArtGoblin)
    I can see why there needs to be a change, but I don't think the situation is bad as it is made out to be. Women can be prosecuted for a virtually identical crime of serious sexual assault - the only reason it seems so unfair to men is because of the social stigma of the word 'rape'. It is not that the crime is any worse when it is rape rather than forcing someone to penetrate, but when the word 'rape' is used, people see it as more serious. The law needs to be very clear about what a particular crime is so in this case, rape refers to a very particular act. However, in popular discourse rape would be used to refer to a woman who forced a man to have sex with her, despite the legal terminology. Therefore I don't see a huge problem with the law as it stands, but I would support a changing of the legal definition to include forcing someone to penetrate.
    You might be correct in so much as this being an argument of semantics, but I'd presume you weren't against gay marriage on the condition that "hey, they've got civil partnerships, what are they complaining about?" :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by LewisG123)
    "Home Office figures show between 1995 and 1999, 18 women were convicted of rape or aiding and abetting it, but most of those were against children." - I think it's highly unlikely they're all merely helping
    By definition, a woman cannot commit rape without being just an accomplice.
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    I'm concerned that OP seems to want the law changed not to protect, help and encourage socially stigmatised victims to report, but out of some desire to see women available to be called a 'shameful and destructive' title. The level of concern!trolling for male rape victims in order to get back at women for misplaced grievances is making me recoil like I'm being paid for it.
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    (Original post by SkinnyKat)
    I agree with that. I think it's due to the culture of masculinity surrounding men and gender stereotypes. But I also think men (in general) don't respond well to measures to try to change the view that men should be tough and never show weakness. For example, and sorry for bringing up feminism again, I've heard a lot of men accusing feminism of trying to "emasculate" them.

    Raising awareness would be a start and making it compulsory for the police to investigate any sexual abuse complaint regardless of gender. But it will take a while for the stigma of being a male victim to go away.
    I think support is actually a serious issue. We have various support services and campaigns to promote them which target women, but men have a different psychology about these things. Most of those services have little appeal and limited usefulness to men, partly because they're perceived as being female-oriented and partly because most men want to deal with these things in a different way to most women.

    I agree very much with the idea of raising awareness. Partly that attacks stigma, but also sexual assault of men is so far beneath the radar that there's a big sense of being the only one and having nothing to fall back on.
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    (Original post by LewisG123)
    "Home Office figures show between 1995 and 1999, 18 women were convicted of rape or aiding and abetting it, but most of those were against children." - I think it's highly unlikely they're all merely helping


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    If they are underage then it can be rape whatever gender they are.
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    (Original post by james22)
    If they are underage then it can be rape whatever gender they are.
    Afraid not - even the underage rape offences require penile penetration.
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    Seriously feels like I'm banging my head against a wall here


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    (Original post by LewisG123)
    Seriously feels like I'm banging my head against a wall here
    Show us the proof then...
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    (Original post by LewisG123)
    Seriously feels like I'm banging my head against a wall here
    That's because you're wrong.
 
 
 
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