A ban on female members at Muirfield Golf Club in 2013? Why!?! Watch

Drewski
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#61
Report 5 years ago
#61
(Original post by CelticSymphony67)
Perhaps not, but it does not look good to sponsors of the event that The Scottish First Minister, Minister for Equal Rights and that Harman woman have all boycotted the event. Just seen what Rory McIlroy and Luke Donald has to say about it, they want the ban to be lifted. Are they wrong as well?
No, they're perfectly entitled to their opinion. Just as anyone is.

But it doesn't mean it should be acted upon.

I don't like that I'm not good enough to play at the Open. Should I demand that the rules get changed so I be allowed to play? No.
0
quote
reply
CelticSymphony67
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#62
Report Thread starter 5 years ago
#62
(Original post by pane123)
Women are allowed to play at Muirfield, they just aren't allowed to be members.

"As a Club we conform to the Equality Act 2010 and any change in the membership would be for the members to decide. At this moment there are no plans to change the current membership status."

The members of your snooker club wanted the rules changed, and the rules at Muirfield will be changed, should the members decide so.
I know that they are not breaking the law, as the law stands, but should the law be changed? I have never been one to put laws everywhere, but I do find the "No woman member rule" strange, and so it seems does the majority of professional male golf players as well.
0
quote
reply
CelticSymphony67
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#63
Report Thread starter 5 years ago
#63
(Original post by Drewski)
No, they're perfectly entitled to their opinion. Just as anyone is.

But it doesn't mean it should be acted upon.

I don't like that I'm not good enough to play at the Open. Should I demand that the rules get changed so I be allowed to play? No.
It is not the same though is it? If you're not good enough to play in The Open, then that is way the cookie crumbles, it is not discrimination. Not allowing a person membership of a club due to their gender, is discrimination. I have not heard one argument as to why this should be allowed, in this day and age.
0
quote
reply
Drewski
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#64
Report 5 years ago
#64
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
I expect us girlies would get in the way of their swinging, er, clubs.
And I expect the men would get in the way of the women who play at the following women-only clubs (of which there are an equal amount to men-only clubs):
http://www.lundinladiesgolfclub.co.uk/
http://www.sunningdaleladies.co.uk/
http://www.formbyladiesgolfclub.co.uk/
0
quote
reply
Hopple
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#65
Report 5 years ago
#65
(Original post by CelticSymphony67)
I know that they are not breaking the law, as the law stands, but should the law be changed? I have never been one to put laws everywhere, but I do find the "No woman member rule" strange, and so it seems does the majority of professional male golf players as well.
Nah, leave it. Put other pressure on them to change the rule if you wish, but don't go around legislating that private individuals/organisations must do business against their will.
0
quote
reply
pane123
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#66
Report 5 years ago
#66
(Original post by CelticSymphony67)
I know that they are not breaking the law, as the law stands, but should the law be changed? I have never been one to put laws everywhere, but I do find the "No woman member rule" strange, and so it seems does the majority of professional male golf players as well.
Obviously I can't say this for certain, but I suspect sponsors decide a golfer's opinion. McIlroy recently signed a massive deal with Nike - can you imagine if he came out and said that he agreed with women being banned from joining?

It's a private club and if they don't want women then so be it. It would be crazy to force them to accept women by law.
0
quote
reply
CelticSymphony67
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#67
Report Thread starter 5 years ago
#67
(Original post by Dhaden)
Have you ever seen the average woman play golf?
Last time I saw a woman with a golf club, it ended up with her going into the back of a police van....
1
quote
reply
Drewski
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#68
Report 5 years ago
#68
(Original post by CelticSymphony67)
I have not heard one argument as to why this should be allowed, in this day and age.
Because grown adults should be trusted to make their own decisions.

That's it. That's the only thing that matters. If that's the way they want to run their club, then so be it. It's a private organisation and they can impose whatever rules they want for whatever reason they want.


There are many real honest-to-God issues with equality in this world.
This doesn't even scratch the surface of them.

Would this have even been news had The Open not been played there? The place has only been around since 1892, it's not exactly new news.
0
quote
reply
CelticSymphony67
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#69
Report Thread starter 5 years ago
#69
(Original post by pane123)
Obviously I can't say this for certain, but I suspect sponsors decide a golfer's opinion. McIlroy recently signed a massive deal with Nike - can you imagine if he came out and said that he agreed with women being banned from joining?

It's a private club and if they don't want women then so be it. It would be crazy to force them to accept women by law.
Of course, he could not come out and say something like that, but I do genuinely think that he does not agree with it. I would chuckle if he did come out with that though, imagine the storm. I do agree with you. I would rather they do it by club vote, and not by a law enacted in London.
0
quote
reply
CelticSymphony67
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#70
Report Thread starter 5 years ago
#70
(Original post by Drewski)
Because grown adults should be trusted to make their own decisions.

That's it. That's the only thing that matters. If that's the way they want to run their club, then so be it. It's a private organisation and they can impose whatever rules they want for whatever reason they want.


There are many real honest-to-God issues with equality in this world.
This doesn't even scratch the surface of them.

Would this have even been news had The Open not been played there? The place has only been around since 1892, it's not exactly new news.
Like I have said above, I would rather they did change the rules through a vote, and not forced to by law, but given time, I think sponsors will start to put pressure on these courses.
0
quote
reply
Hopple
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#71
Report 5 years ago
#71
(Original post by CelticSymphony67)
It is not the same though is it? If you're not good enough to play in The Open, then that is way the cookie crumbles, it is not discrimination. Not allowing a person membership of a club due to their gender, is discrimination. I have not heard one argument as to why this should be allowed, in this day and age.
I think that argument works for public services, but if it's private, then everything is permitted unless reasoned otherwise, such is liberty. The law to prevent must be justified, rather than the action having to be justified.
0
quote
reply
Fullofsurprises
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#72
Report 5 years ago
#72
(Original post by Drewski)
And I expect the men would get in the way of the women who play at the following women-only clubs (of which there are an equal amount to men-only clubs):
http://www.lundinladiesgolfclub.co.uk/
http://www.sunningdaleladies.co.uk/
http://www.formbyladiesgolfclub.co.uk/
They are different things - Muirfield is one of the major national courses. The ones you mention have different contexts. Sunningdale for example has multiple clubs for different categories, so women and men are not disbarred from membership. Lundin Ladies does not exclude men from club membership and is only a small course - it isn't unreasonable to have specialist courses. Formby is in a similar category.

You are not comparing like with like.
0
quote
reply
Drewski
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#73
Report 5 years ago
#73
(Original post by CelticSymphony67)
Like I have said above, I would rather they did change the rules through a vote, and not forced to by law, but given time, I think sponsors will start to put pressure on these courses.
I doubt it. The Open rotates. The next 3 courses it goes to are all open membership.

But why the furore now? Muirfield hosted The Open in 2002 and there was no mass media clamour.
0
quote
reply
Fullofsurprises
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#74
Report 5 years ago
#74
(Original post by Drewski)
Because grown adults should be trusted to make their own decisions.

That's it. That's the only thing that matters. If that's the way they want to run their club, then so be it. It's a private organisation and they can impose whatever rules they want for whatever reason they want.

There are many real honest-to-God issues with equality in this world.
This doesn't even scratch the surface of them.

Would this have even been news had The Open not been played there? The place has only been around since 1892, it's not exactly new news.
Well, it's surfaced now.

Grown adults can make decisions, but in this case, as they exclude women, they can't be involved in the decision-making, can they.

These things matter for their totemic value - if F1 tried to exclude women from Silverstone, or Horse Racing from Goodwood, there would be outrage. It's the same for any major sporting club or venue. Of course, there are valid exceptions, but it's hard to see how golf is one of them.
0
quote
reply
CelticSymphony67
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#75
Report Thread starter 5 years ago
#75
(Original post by Drewski)
I doubt it. The Open rotates. The next 3 courses it goes to are all open membership.

But why the furore now? Muirfield hosted The Open in 2002 and there was no mass media clamour.
I did wonder that myself. Harman said it was because how well female sports stars have done over the past 12 months, which I thought was a odd statement. Does that mean they were mince before then? Maybe they will brush it under the carpet then, unless Salmond carries on about it.
0
quote
reply
Drewski
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#76
Report 5 years ago
#76
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
They are different things - Muirfield is one of the major national courses. The ones you mention have different contexts. Sunningdale for example has multiple clubs for different categories, so women and men are not disbarred from membership. Lundin Ladies does not exclude men from club membership and is only a small course - it isn't unreasonable to have specialist courses. Formby is in a similar category.

You are not comparing like with like.
Actually, I am accurately comparing situations:
Many womens-only golf clubs - such as Lundin - began as single sex locations but had to open up due to wishing to remain commercially viable. It was their choice. Not one imposed on them from outside.

Let them make their own minds up.
0
quote
reply
CelticSymphony67
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#77
Report Thread starter 5 years ago
#77
(Original post by Hopple)
I think that argument works for public services, but if it's private, then everything is permitted unless reasoned otherwise, such is liberty. The law to prevent must be justified, rather than the action having to be justified.
I know that past governments are not too keen to get involved with private membership rules, but if this stays in the public view, they may pressure these golf clubs that operate these rules, to change.
0
quote
reply
Drewski
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#78
Report 5 years ago
#78
(Original post by CelticSymphony67)
I did wonder that myself. Harman said it was because how well female sports stars have done over the past 12 months, which I thought was a odd statement. Does that mean they were mince before then? Maybe they will brush it under the carpet then, unless Salmond carries on about it.
He wouldn't dare. Golf is one of Scotland's few HUGE global selling points. If he starts kicking up a fuss at every tournament, people are going to stop going there.
0
quote
reply
CelticSymphony67
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#79
Report Thread starter 5 years ago
#79
(Original post by Drewski)
He wouldn't dare. Golf is one of Scotland's few HUGE global selling points. If he starts kicking up a fuss at every tournament, people are going to stop going there.
He has kicked up a big enough stink here, he boycotted it.
0
quote
reply
Hopple
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#80
Report 5 years ago
#80
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Well, it's surfaced now.

Grown adults can make decisions, but in this case, as they exclude women, they can't be involved in the decision-making, can they.

These things matter for their totemic value - if F1 tried to exclude women from Silverstone, or Horse Racing from Goodwood, there would be outrage. It's the same for any major sporting club or venue. Of course, there are valid exceptions, but it's hard to see how golf is one of them.
But should the government legislate on it? Men and women compete separately in golf, so to compare it to horse or motor racing is a bit unfair. If men and women were to compete side by side in golf and one of the main venues for the sport excluded women, I imagine player power alone would easily change things.
(Original post by CelticSymphony67)
I know that past governments are not too keen to get involved with private membership rules, but if this stays in the public view, they may pressure these golf clubs that operate these rules, to change.
Pressure's fine, but I think legislating that private individuals and/or organisations have to do business with people they don't want to do business with is wrong.
1
quote
reply
X

Reply to thread

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Do you like exams?

Yes (132)
18.38%
No (436)
60.72%
Not really bothered about them (150)
20.89%

Watched Threads

View All