Has Uri Geller been confirmed psychic? Watch

Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by SamW78)
I am sorry but Wikipedia is hardly the bastion of academic excellence, especially considering that anyone can edit the information.

FYI her psychokinesis ability was never dis-proven, every test that was devised for her she did successfully.

Yes there was an element of cold war propaganda, but as you are unaware I shall complete the picture for you.

Oct 1970 Gaither Pratt & Champe Ransom of the (American) Duke University tested her abilities, this was done in collaboration with the Russians, a Genady Sergeyev (physiologist and mathematician) and a Konstantin Ivanenko (mathematician and computer expert). During this meeting Kulagina managed to move a matchbox provided by Pratt, imprint an image on photographic film. Amazed by what they saw they set up a camera to film her next test, Ransom spread aquarium gravel in the centre of the table, placed a nonmagnetic cylinder upright in the middle of the gravel, and inverted a tall glass over it. Kulagina was able to move the cylinder through the gravel.

What was really amazing was how she never sold out (unlike Geller) and preferred to stay out of the limelight.

Broughton, R.S. (1991). Parapsychology. Ballantine Books: New York.
The people who did those old tests were easy to fool. Modern sceptical scientists have never been able to replicate such results with any test subject under carefully monitored conditions. The 70s were rife with gullible paranormal 'experts' and their 'scientific' conclusions are hokum.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by SamW78)
In what way is he spouting pseudo scientific nonsense? Can you be more specific so we can have a reasonable debate based on science rather than wikipedia or someones blog? He was a geologist and talks about the scientific techniques used in excavating finds, he talks about the ancient cities from archeological digs that show mankind has been going for a lot longer than 5000 years. As in there have been 5 cycles of primitive to advanced, then catasphrohies that have wiped each cycle out only to start again.

This is the classic response from a sheep, I'm sorry but your knowledge is 30 years out of date and marred your inability to accept that there is more going on than the official line.

His comments on evolution were based on the finding and DNA testing of a preserved Neanderthal girl, perfectly intact with skin and eyes. What is unscientific about DNA testing?

I'm not saying science is sh*t as GB uses science to demonstrate that the evidence and facts do not fit with the official line. Understand? Besides science is limited insofar as dealing with metaphysics, dark matter etc.

Anyone can set up a blog, it is merely someone's opinion.

I could setup a blog 'disproving' the link autism and the MMR vaccine. Although you should know that the link has been scientifically proven and courts in Australia and Italy have forced big pharma to compensate victims. The point is you didn't hear about it, as you didn't hear about the Neanderthal girl, in the link I provided, GB gives a journal reference for the DNA testing of the Neanderthal girl, what is psuedo-scientific about this please?

I await your response.
There's no 'perfectly preserved Neanderthal', where did you get that rubbish from?? There have been successful Neanderthal DNA studies but Braden makes wild claims on the back of them that no serious scientist would concur with.

I don't think there's anything useful to debate as regards the rest of your piece, as you say, 'metaphysics' is outside science, but then so is total fantasy. You appear to believe that imaginary things can somehow be made real in some scientific sense, so perhaps you haven't totally given up on science?
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SamW78
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
The people who did those old tests were easy to fool. Modern sceptical scientists have never been able to replicate such results with any test subject under carefully monitored conditions. The 70s were rife with gullible paranormal 'experts' and their 'scientific' conclusions are hokum.
Don't get me wrong there are plenty of frauds out there.

But Kuligina was not a fraud. I'm sure if she was still alive today she'd demonstrate her remarkable ability to modern scientists.
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SamW78
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
There's no 'perfectly preserved Neanderthal', where did you get that rubbish from?? There have been successful Neanderthal DNA studies but Braden makes wild claims on the back of them that no serious scientist would concur with.

I don't think there's anything useful to debate as regards the rest of your piece, as you say, 'metaphysics' is outside science, but then so is total fantasy. You appear to believe that imaginary things can somehow be made real in some scientific sense, so perhaps you haven't totally given up on science?
Please open your mind to the possibility that there is more to 3rd dimension 5 sense reality.

Watch the link I provided, GB gives a journal reference for the DNA test of an intact Neanderthal girl. You being so defensive and dismissive speaks volumes about you. No he doesn't make these claims he follows the scientific evidence presented in scientific journals.

Wrong, just because metaphysics shows the limit of science doesn't mean it is necessarily outside of science or even that it is imaginary.

If you get in quantum physics, which is the real cutting edge of mainstream scientific understanding, it covers metaphysics quite appropriately, along with subjectivity and the power of the mind and ESP and PK etc.

Please don't try and belittle me with terms like imagery, that was a desperate attempt to inject a rebuttal to what is overwhelming (scientific) evidence that contradicts your understanding of the world. My understanding of such matters is much more advanced and I'm simply trying to answer your comments which were motivated by the shocking discovery that the official line you hold so dear is BS.
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SamW78
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(Original post by Manitude)
It's not magic. But it's a mysterious energy with absolutely no explanation in physics, which has never been measured by any scientific instruments but can be manipulated by people who move in a certain way?

Makes sense.

Err yes that's just what I said to the other guy, I'm not sure why you are asking me if it makes sense.

Do you practice Tai Chi at all?
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alexmagpie
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(Original post by SamW78)
Please open your mind to the possibility that there is more to 3rd dimension 5 sense reality.

Watch the link I provided, GB gives a journal reference for the DNA test of an intact Neanderthal girl. You being so defensive and dismissive speaks volumes about you. No he doesn't make these claims he follows the scientific evidence presented in scientific journals.

Wrong, just because metaphysics shows the limit of science doesn't mean it is necessarily outside of science or even that it is imaginary.

If you get in quantum physics, which is the real cutting edge of mainstream scientific understanding, it covers metaphysics quite appropriately, along with subjectivity and the power of the mind and ESP and PK etc.

Please don't try and belittle me with terms like imagery, that was a desperate attempt to inject a rebuttal to what is overwhelming (scientific) evidence that contradicts your understanding of the world. My understanding of such matters is much more advanced and I'm simply trying to answer your comments which were motivated by the shocking discovery that the official line you hold so dear is BS.
Firstly the scientific method is inappropriate to study it, then there's apparently oodles of scientific evidence?

Make up your mind.
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Manitude
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(Original post by SamW78)
Err yes that's just what I said to the other guy, I'm not sure why you are asking me if it makes sense.

Do you practice Tai Chi at all?
I'm not asking you if it makes sense, I'm telling you it doesn't.
Used to. Stopped doing it because it wasn't doing anything beneficial for me at all.
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SamW78
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(Original post by alexmagpie)
Firstly the scientific method is inappropriate to study it, then there's apparently oodles of scientific evidence?

Make up your mind.
Oh dear you have embarrassed yourself with that statement.

If you followed the thread correctly you would have noted that the scientific evidence I refer to regards archeological digs and DNA testing of a Neanderthal girl. This was mentioned to give weight to the statement that there is scientific evidence that contradicts the official line regarding specifics such as mankind has been around for only 5000 years.

This is different to scientific evidence of psychic ability such as PK or ESP. To which, such abilities cannot be explained scientifically, but their artifacts such as a moving cylinder can be observed.

Did you follow or shall I break out the puppets and give a more basic explanation?
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Howard
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Geller was a fraud. About as psychic as I am.
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SamW78
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(Original post by Manitude)
I'm not asking you if it makes sense, I'm telling you it doesn't.
Used to. Stopped doing it because it wasn't doing anything beneficial for me at all.

I agree it doesn't make sense, that doesn't mean it isn't a real phenomena.

Electricity doesn't make sense, no-one knows exactly what it is, the description some kind of energy can also be applied to chi.

BTW science can sort of measure chi energy as a secondary effect, similar to neuro imaging and blood flow or electrical activity against cognition, in chi's case the secondary measure is heat movement within the body, kind of like Predator. Not sure if there's been any scientific study of this using this.

Well if it wasn't doing much for you perhaps you were doing it wrong, maybe it might be beneficial to get a better teacher.

I've not been doing it for about 3 months, but my teacher was an authentic dude from China, taught by the 9th generation Grandmaster of Chen style Tai Chi. I hope to pick it up again soon. But the truth is I'm nowhere compared to what I've seen with shaolin monks.
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Manitude
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(Original post by SamW78)
I agree it doesn't make sense, that doesn't mean it isn't a real phenomena.

Electricity doesn't make sense, no-one knows exactly what it is, the description some kind of energy can also be applied to chi.

BTW science can sort of measure chi energy as a secondary effect, similar to neuro imaging and blow flow against electrical activity to brain regions, in chi's case the secondary measure is heat movement within the body, kind of like Predator. Not sure if there's been any scientific study of this using this.

Well if it wasn't doing much for you perhaps you were doing it wrong, maybe it might be beneficial to get a better teacher.

I've not been in 3 months, but my teacher was an authentic dude from China, taught by the 9th generation Grandmaster of Chen style Tai Chi. I hope to pick it up again soon. But the truth is I'm nowhere compared to what I've seen with shaolin monks.
Actually, electricity is extremely well understood (we don't like in the 19th century any more when it really was a mysterious force), but as you don't appear to be a physicist I'll glance over this point. We know it's the movement of electrons.

If there's no peer reviewed, published scientific study then it cannot be considered to be a fact by science.

My Tai Chi teacher taught at the best school in a large city in China (Wu'xi) - it's unlikely I'd find someone better. A lot of people believed he has 'special powers' but even though I saw some of these powers demonstrated in front of me (though not on me) I remain highly suspicious. Until I read a peer reviewed scientific study publish in a mainstream journal, this position will not change.
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SamW78
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(Original post by Manitude)
Actually, electricity is extremely well understood (we don't like in the 19th century any more when it really was a mysterious force), but as you don't appear to be a physicist I'll glance over this point. We know it's the movement of electrons.

If there's no peer reviewed, published scientific study then it cannot be considered to be a fact by science.

My Tai Chi teacher taught at the best school in a large city in China (Wu'xi) - it's unlikely I'd find someone better. A lot of people believed he has 'special powers' but even though I saw some of these powers demonstrated in front of me (though not on me) I remain highly suspicious. Until I read a peer reviewed scientific study publish in a mainstream journal, this position will not change.
Can you explain how moving electrons create a force with which I can charge my laptop?

I never said chi was a fact in the definition of mainstream science, but it is a phenomena worthy of further study wouldn't you agree?

Hardly special powers, more like training coupled with an understanding of ancient knowledge.
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Manitude
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(Original post by SamW78)
Can you explain how moving electrons create a force with which I can charge my laptop?

I never said chi was a fact in the definition of mainstream science, but it is a phenomena worthy of further study wouldn't you agree?

Hardly special powers, more like training coupled with an understanding of ancient knowledge.
Laptops are a tad complicated, but yes - someone out there knows how it's done. Not me personally, but that doesn't mean that nobody knows as I'm sure you'll appreciate I don't know everything that science knows. Having said that, with some schematic diagrams I could possibly have a go.
I can explain LEDs, solar cells, PN junctions and I think if I consulted my notes from earlier this year then I could have a go at explaining transistors (which are a massive part of how computer runs)

Oh yes, there's no harm in research. I'd be happy to give it a go myself if someone gave me a grant with which to fund the research.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by SamW78)
Please open your mind to the possibility that there is more to 3rd dimension 5 sense reality.

Watch the link I provided, GB gives a journal reference for the DNA test of an intact Neanderthal girl. You being so defensive and dismissive speaks volumes about you. No he doesn't make these claims he follows the scientific evidence presented in scientific journals.

Wrong, just because metaphysics shows the limit of science doesn't mean it is necessarily outside of science or even that it is imaginary.

If you get in quantum physics, which is the real cutting edge of mainstream scientific understanding, it covers metaphysics quite appropriately, along with subjectivity and the power of the mind and ESP and PK etc.

Please don't try and belittle me with terms like imagery, that was a desperate attempt to inject a rebuttal to what is overwhelming (scientific) evidence that contradicts your understanding of the world. My understanding of such matters is much more advanced and I'm simply trying to answer your comments which were motivated by the shocking discovery that the official line you hold so dear is BS.
There's no 'intact Neanderthal girl', he's either confused or exaggerating, although of course it would depend on what 'intact' means exactly - there are plenty of DNA-retreivable remains, but that's not quite the same thing, is it?

Psuedoscientists seem to love quantum physics, partly because some of it sounds fantastical anyway, but mainly because the public generally don't understand it, so any claim that appears to be based on it sounds plausible.
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pop101
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Patrick Jane: 'There's no such thing as real psychics'.
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SamW78
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
There's no 'intact Neanderthal girl', he's either confused or exaggerating, although of course it would depend on what 'intact' means exactly - there are plenty of DNA-retreivable remains, but that's not quite the same thing, is it?

Psuedoscientists seem to love quantum physics, partly because some of it sounds fantastical anyway, but mainly because the public generally don't understand it, so any claim that appears to be based on it sounds plausible.
And skeptics/sheeple love to use the term psuedoscientist a lot. It makes them feel better and more in control of their rather shaken up world.

You have yet to answer any of my points other than dismissing the intact DNA, I keep saying GB quotes a scientific journal in this video. Why are you repeating this over and over?

Let me expand on what was said in this journal regarding the intact DNA. Evolutionists think we came from monkeys, and that Neandathals were a stage in modern man's evolution. The scientists who found the intact Neanderthal girl, meaning skin and eyes, carried out DNA tests, as the level of preservation was such that this was possible, they established that the DNA differences between Neanderthal and modern man were too vast to warrant any type of evolutionary transcendence. They hypothesized that 'modern man' and Neanderthals roamed the Earth at the same time. Another nail (about the 100th) in the death bed of BS that is evolution theory.

Don't knock quantum physics, it is science's saviour. If only narrow minded attitudes and the brainwashing could be broken then we might have a progressive society.
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SamW78
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(Original post by Manitude)
Laptops are a tad complicated, but yes - someone out there knows how it's done. Not me personally, but that doesn't mean that nobody knows as I'm sure you'll appreciate I don't know everything that science knows. Having said that, with some schematic diagrams I could possibly have a go.
I can explain LEDs, solar cells, PN junctions and I think if I consulted my notes from earlier this year then I could have a go at explaining transistors (which are a massive part of how computer runs)

Oh yes, there's no harm in research. I'd be happy to give it a go myself if someone gave me a grant with which to fund the research.
Perhaps I wasn't specific enough, can any scientist explain how moving electrons are able to generate an electrical force? If indeed this is how electricity begins. And what causes the electrons to move in such a way to create electrical energy, as far as I know electrons that compose all matter move all the time, are they creating electricity in that state of movement? I would say no, because I would get an electric shock everytime I touch something.

In other words the explanation electricity works by moving electrons just doesn't cut it.

The point being..no-one can scientifically explain what electricity is, but we use it to power our computers. Similarly, no-one can scientifically explain what chi is but shaolin monks can use this force to stop their necks being pierced.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by SamW78)
And skeptics/sheeple love to use the term psuedoscientist a lot. It makes them feel better and more in control of their rather shaken up world.

You have yet to answer any of my points other than dismissing the intact DNA, I keep saying GB quotes a scientific journal in this video. Why are you repeating this over and over?

Let me expand on what was said in this journal regarding the intact DNA. Evolutionists think we came from monkeys, and that Neandathals were a stage in modern man's evolution. The scientists who found the intact Neanderthal girl, meaning skin and eyes, carried out DNA tests, as the level of preservation was such that this was possible, they established that the DNA differences between Neanderthal and modern man were too vast to warrant any type of evolutionary transcendence. They hypothesized that 'modern man' and Neanderthals roamed the Earth at the same time. Another nail (about the 100th) in the death bed of BS that is evolution theory.

Don't knock quantum physics, it is science's saviour. If only narrow minded attitudes and the brainwashing could be broken then we might have a progressive society.
I don't have time to wade through a video of over 2 hours full of nonsense to get a journal reference - why don't you post it here?

Your/his understanding of the relationship between the coexistence of Neanderthals and Humans and evolutionary theory appears to be very confused. The evolution of modern humans from earlier hominids is constantly subject to review and revision and most scientists do not regard Neanderthals as primary ancestors of humans, but as related to us, with a small percentage of genetic material in common and evidence of interbreeding. This neither destroys nor negates any major theories about evolution.

I am giving Wikipedia links not because it is the fount of all knowledge but because it contains many useful links and references, so that casual readers of this discussion can easily jump off to read more widely accepted views than the nonsensical accounts you are giving.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by SamW78)
The point being..no-one can scientifically explain what electricity is, but we use it to power our computers. Similarly, no-one can scientifically explain what chi is but shaolin monks can use this force to stop their necks being pierced.
One big difference is that a huge amount of systematic research has gone into electrons, electricity and electromagnetism and as a result, a great deal of well proven fact is known about these phenomenon, even if at the ultimate levels of detail, there are competing theories about the explanation for various phenomena, the particles and forces that generate them, what those truly are, etc. This isn't the case with many 'mystical phenomena' that are presented. I wouldn't use the example of something a Shaolin priest does as an example, because they are most probably the result of physical discipline and training and are not 'metaphysical' at all, but are replicable and explicable physical phenomena.

There might be other 'phenomena' that some claim exist, like for example, psychic telekinesis, or remote viewing, that experiments could be devised for and repeated many times under controlled conditions to test for the existence of. Whenever this has been done so far under genuinely replicable and controlled objective conditions that could not be 'gamed' by the participants, the results have been nil.
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SamW78
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
I don't have time to wade through a video of over 2 hours full of nonsense to get a journal reference - why don't you post it here?

Your/his understanding of the relationship between the coexistence of Neanderthals and Humans and evolutionary theory appears to be very confused. The evolution of modern humans from earlier hominids is constantly subject to review and revision and most scientists do not regard Neanderthals as primary ancestors of humans, but as related to us, with a small percentage of genetic material in common and evidence of interbreeding. This neither destroys nor negates any major theories about evolution.

I am giving Wikipedia links not because it is the fount of all knowledge but because it contains many useful links and references, so that casual readers of this discussion can easily jump off to read more widely accepted views than the nonsensical accounts you are giving.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal
Come on don't be like that

It's not nonsense, those 2 hours just flew by for me, I only want to spread a truer version of reality. One where psychic ability is indeed a recognized phenomena, instead of instant and complete dismissal b/c that would mean science is wrong or at least limited. I need a better reason than the need to cling to outdated paradigms. I go where the evidence takes me, just like a true scientist should. Lets be honest the left brain thinkers have had it all their way since the 18th century, and as demonstrated by my previous comments, science is limited when we look at metaphysics.

Also, that comment I made wasn't the only critique of evolution, he makes direct quotes from Darwin's (in)famous book which will really blow your mind. I don't want to spoil it for you.

My version of reality is fabulous, you should join me, I'm riding a unicorn right now.
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