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Chihiro95
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#61
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#61
(Original post by GrumpyCat)
It's one of feminism's core beliefs o.O Haha perhaps its worth looking, since it's kind of one of the central principles of feminism.



I think you've misunderstood me. I don't want two sets entry requirements, I'm stating that quotas will lead to having two sets of entry requirements, just to ensure 50/50 balance.

Just to reconfirm your view, For/against quotas? And why.
Against quotas, pro equal opportunities, in that gender, wealth, race, religion, sexuality and so on shouldn't have an impact. But that'd only work if no one had innate biases/prejudices so...
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buchanan700
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#62
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#62
(Original post by Algorithm69)
As far as I'm concerned, "rape culture" is a fantasy. Here's a video that destroys the concept of "rape culture" in my opinion:



Also check out The Amazing Atheist's video "There's No Rape Culture!". I'd post it but TSR only allows one video per post for some reason.
You'll notice that I took about 10 minutes to reply. I did watch your video.
It has not changed my views in any way.
This women does not understand what she is talking about, and dismissing the whole thing for stupid, stupid reasons.
1. 'Rapefying' normal sex.
Consent, yes, is a tricky issue some times, and one that should be treated with respect. Do men get equally as drunk as women? Yes. Is there a risk that he didn't know what he was doing? Yes. That's why it is very difficult to secure a conviction if both parties are drunk, understandably. Is it rape if the woman is out of her face, and the man is not? YES. Consent NEEDS to be there, implied or explicitly stated. If it is impossible for the woman to consent, it is rape. Perhaps there is some issue with over using the term 'rape', but any progressive society should be happy that women are being educated about consent and when they are being taken advantage of. As for the sleep argument, that sort of rape is not designed to convict people who 'wake' their spouses up. It is designed for cases in which the victim is asleep and unaware that any sexual activity might take place. Quite frankly that is a very poor comparison.

2. Women = victims.
Proper feminists, as recognised by this insipid woman, would never claim that all rape is carried out by men. But like it or not, MOST is, and the data is overwhelming. Yes, there are unreported crimes, but that's also true for women, and if both are added to the current data, women are still shown the be the majority victim.
Men who are victims of sexual abuse should absolutely have all the support they need and I would support any action to help that. I want to make that clear,

3. Trivialising rape.
This does happen. People as high up as judges are making comments such as 'Some women rape easy' or that some women should 'keep their legs shut'. That's disturbing. These sort of attitudes are disturbingly prevalant. Take the Steubenville case. A teenager was stripped naked, sexually assaulted and raped whilst she was extremely intoxicated. The attackers took pictures, and spread them amongst their friends.
The attackers weren't monsters, or dangerous predators. They were boys her age, a whole group of them, that decided there was nothing wrong with doing that, because of society teaching them that women are objects. There was a huge media reaction, and people from everywhere were blaming the girl, as she was drunk, etc etc.
That's what it means. When young men are able to treat a women like that with no guilty concious, it's rape culture. They have no idea how much they have hurt the girl, they do not care..it's not a 'big deal'
Again, that was 'Stebeunville, Ohio. Look it up.
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pandabird
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#63
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#63
(Original post by Algorithm69)
The summary is "rape culture" is a fantasy created by feminists. Her points are too numerous to list.
Her points are too numerous....her points are too numerous because basically it's anecdotal bull****. I just watched the video and I'm disappointed, I was actually expecting to see some serious arguememts. But what I watched was an extremely biased woman who is part of some 'male voice' website give sarcastic dim-witted excuses for her anti-feminist (and probably anti-female) views.

I understand why you couldn't give any points because I tried writing some down as I went along and I struggled but here we go anyway:

1) A female who engages in sexual behaviour after consumption of alcohol is, according to the law and feminists, the victim of rape automatically, because she's consumed alcohol. So if a woman had a glass of wine she can claim rape just because she had a glass of wine before? Right ok.
2) Rape jokes should be acceptable because it shows that rape is taken seriously... right ok
3) it's ridiculous how someone instigating sex whilst the other person is asleep can constitute rape. That is wrong, and there goes her 'favourite way to wake up'
4) In order to tackle rape, women should first not falsely claim rape. So we should earn the right to rape prevention by first solving the issue of false rape claims. I didn't realise the two crimes were in competition with each other, both are separate, very serious issues
5) Feminists are wrong in continuously battling against rape and are wrong by wanting to continuously prevent cases.
6) According to one study, one study males and females are equally likely to be sexually aggressive by the age of 18. She then goes onto suggest that therefore males and females are as equally as likely to rape. I could go on to give so many reasons to dispute that claim and implication, backed up with numerous studies.



Right ok, stand up video.
These stupid male versus females, anti-feminism battles are one thing...but I really resent rape being brought into this. Rape and sex abuse of any kind is a very serious, distressing crime and I resent the issue being reduced to this petty level, being used as a tool to hate on feminism. Whether you are a feminist or not, you should feel repulsion for rape of any kind. People's lax attitude towards this are quite shocking. I think it's really immature and ignorant.
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rad_student
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#64
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#64
I don't actually see your point? Your last sentence makes no sense...do you know what 'rape culture' is? It's a culture in which rape is not 'acceptable' in terms of the law,I'm not claiming that there isn't progress that way, but instead rape culture is where 'prevalent attitudes and practices normalize, excuse, tolerate, and even condone rape'. If you had read my source, you will see there are disturbing practices and attitudes today that do just that. Even through mediums like porn. That could be a whole seperate issue, but in terms of this, extremely submissive women, verging on the point of being uncomfortable of unwilling, are quite normal, and this is what young people are being exposed to.
Are you saying rape is acceptable wrt law? Because it is punishable. A women can't legally rape a man (16+), she'd probably get sexual assualt (like marital pre 1990s?)
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/...t-rape-culture
I'm not saying there isn't rape, but also punishment.

Clearly it's not, thus the list, but it's these little grievances that build in to something much larger and should not go unchallenged.
It does get heeded to & not Censored, as sometimes what happens when men are victims of crime.

Would have liked to have seen a source, and still not entirely convinced, but I will concede a bit that the pay gap is becoming less of an issue.
71.2% of the total income tax bill & 20 issues that boys/men r being shortchanged Explains 19.7% pay gap with Govt Stats


When did I say it was just men doing the objectifying? It's a societal problem.

The 89% was a separate source, sorry for not clarifying. Are you saying that women who are beaten and abused, physically, psychologically, sometimes sexually should be thrown in jail for defending themselves? That is absurd. With all due respect I no longer wish to talk about that anymore with you, as it is a very personal issue, and you so clearly do not understand. I don't want to get irrational. Don't respond to this comment.
She went to jail for 3.5 years, but given the amount of resources to leave, she choose premeditated murder. I do understand & I am far too damaged for...Day 25 of was the early years, there's more hence my 'fave' topic.

Excuse me?! First of all, women are thankfully allowed to joing men in the Armed forces and services. Secondly societies in which rape is common place, FGM is standard, and women are not allowed basic rights, are not societies which protect women!!
Is circumcision chosen for boys as well, or is it their choice. FGM is not men doing it, its women.

I read some 'MSM', but I also watch and read media which exposes the truth behind women's rights. For example, hundreds of women every year have to travel from Ireland (a 'developed' country), in order to secure an abortion, or the fact that many thousands of women in the US that wish to use contraception, are poorly educated, unable to get help, discouraged from using it, or have the places that make it available (planned parenthood etc) bombed! Not that sexual education in the UK is great.
Religion (abortion, FGM & MGM), education... more funding needed for education then. I'm not gonna give the 'keep your legs closed' insult that get given to men, when women have so many birth control methods. Roll on Vasalgel.
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Rational Thinker
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#65
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#65
I think we should spend time higlighting those who are desperately trying to divide us, eg Laurie Penny, Harriet Harman and such. The two genders have more in common that do they do against each other.
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Rational Thinker
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#66
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#66
(Original post by rad_student)
I don't actually see your point? Your last sentence makes no sense...do you know what 'rape culture' is? It's a culture in which rape is not 'acceptable' in terms of the law,I'm not claiming that there isn't progress that way, but instead rape culture is where 'prevalent attitudes and practices normalize, excuse, tolerate, and even condone rape'. If you had read my source, you will see there are disturbing practices and attitudes today that do just that. Even through mediums like porn. That could be a whole seperate issue, but in terms of this, extremely submissive women, verging on the point of being uncomfortable of unwilling, are quite normal, and this is what young people are being exposed to.
Are you saying rape is acceptable wrt law? Because it is punishable. A women can't legally rape a man (16+), she'd probably get sexual assualt (like marital pre 1990s?)
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/...t-rape-culture
I'm not saying there isn't rape, but also punishment.

Clearly it's not, thus the list, but it's these little grievances that build in to something much larger and should not go unchallenged.
It does get heeded to & not Censored, as sometimes what happens when men are victims of crime.

Would have liked to have seen a source, and still not entirely convinced, but I will concede a bit that the pay gap is becoming less of an issue.
71.2% of the total income tax bill & 20 issues that boys/men r being shortchanged Explains 19.7% pay gap with Govt Stats


When did I say it was just men doing the objectifying? It's a societal problem.

The 89% was a separate source, sorry for not clarifying. Are you saying that women who are beaten and abused, physically, psychologically, sometimes sexually should be thrown in jail for defending themselves? That is absurd. With all due respect I no longer wish to talk about that anymore with you, as it is a very personal issue, and you so clearly do not understand. I don't want to get irrational. Don't respond to this comment.
She went to jail for 3.5 years, but given the amount of resources to leave, she choose premeditated murder. I do understand & I am far too damaged for...Day 25 of was the early years, there's more hence my 'fave' topic.

Excuse me?! First of all, women are thankfully allowed to joing men in the Armed forces and services. Secondly societies in which rape is common place, FGM is standard, and women are not allowed basic rights, are not societies which protect women!!
Is circumcision chosen for boys as well, or is it their choice. FGM is not men doing it, its women.

I read some 'MSM', but I also watch and read media which exposes the truth behind women's rights. For example, hundreds of women every year have to travel from Ireland (a 'developed' country), in order to secure an abortion, or the fact that many thousands of women in the US that wish to use contraception, are poorly educated, unable to get help, discouraged from using it, or have the places that make it available (planned parenthood etc) bombed! Not that sexual education in the UK is great.
Religion (abortion, FGM & MGM), education... more funding needed for education then. I'm not gonna give the 'keep your legs closed' insult that get given to men, when women have so many birth control methods. Roll on Vasalgel.
Agreed.
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Rational Thinker
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#67
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#67
(Original post by pandabird)
I scanned and I saw a few words and I'm not even going of read your post, because it's ****ing depressing that people like you exist and I'm not having my mood lowered by you because you simply aren't worth it.
So you are essentially just ignoring the very good points they have made?
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MJ1012
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#68
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#68
(Original post by pandabird)
What? How would having two sets of entry requirements work? That's a load of nonsense.

If a role for a particular job had requirements and involved abilities that a male is more likely to have, then so be it. A male is more likely to get the job because he is more likely to be more suited. That's not the issue, the issue is when there's unjust discrimination, when a woman is perfectly suited for a role but her ability is underestimated purely because she's a woman and not a man. Not because she doesn't have the skills or doesn't meet the requirements, but when she's at an unfounded disadvantage simply because of her sex. That happens a lot in the business place. I completely fail to see how having different entry requirements would work and how that's pro-equality.
I assume you have evidence for this?
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Rational Thinker
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#69
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#69
(Original post by MJ1012)
I assume you have evidence for this?
Good point. I think this might be a case of a certain someone wanting not equal but preferential treatment and perhaps an indication of their manichean logic.
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pandabird
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#70
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#70
(Original post by Rational Thinker)
So you are essentially just ignoring the very good points they have made?
Yes I am. Because my posts are completely ignored. There's too much emotions and biased involved for a well-reasoned debate. It's pointless, it just gets me annoyed and probably he becomes annoyed to.

And you hypocrite, the last post I made to you, you completely ignored, your name is a lie.
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Rational Thinker
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#71
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#71
(Original post by pandabird)
Yes I am. Because my posts are completely ignored. There's too much emotions and biased involved for a well-reasoned debate. It's pointless, it just gets me annoyed and probably he becomes annoyed to.

And you hypocrite, the last post I made to you, you completely ignored, your name is a lie.
All groups have biases to suggest otherwise is rather amusing. I did not reply to your other post because you showed a lack of understanding about radical feminism.
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pandabird
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#72
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#72
(Original post by MJ1012)
I assume you have evidence for this?
I've actually just recently read about it in Social Psychology by Gilovich. I could probably provide some studies for you if you like.

And you must be very closed minded if you believe that gender discrimination doesn't occur in the workplace, it's just as evident as racial discrimination, although it is improving (Y)
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MJ1012
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#73
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#73
(Original post by pandabird)
I've actually just recently read about it in Social Psychology by Gilovich. I could probably provide some studies for you if you like.
Yes please.
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pandabird
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#74
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#74
(Original post by Rational Thinker)
All groups have biases to suggest otherwise is rather amusing. I did not reply to your other post because you showed a lack of understanding about radical feminism.

No one is suggesting otherwise :rolleyes:. But I know when a debate isn't going to get anywhere, and it's not here. And I'm not saying I'm completely blameless either. At least I have the insight to admit that.

God you're so conceited.
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Rational Thinker
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#75
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#75
(Original post by pandabird)
No one is suggesting otherwise :rolleyes:. But I know when a debate isn't going to get anywhere,and it's not here. And I'm not saying I'm completely blameless either. At least I have the insight to admit that.

God you're so conceited.
Must we rush to the ad hominums? I do not particularly care for groups that seek to divide genders against each other, but certain feminists are just as guilty of this as anyone else, the name Laurie Penny springs to mind. Let us not be Manichaen.
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rad_student
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#76
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#76
(Original post by pandabird)
No one is suggesting otherwise :rolleyes:. But I know when a debate isn't going to get anywhere, and it's not here. And I'm not saying I'm completely blameless either. At least I have the insight to admit that.

God you're so conceited.
Name:  Red or Blue PandaBird.jpg
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Size:  3.4 KB Take the Red Pill Neo & chill.

TL DR; Work discrimination can be bias for the married (especially with kids) person, or it could be a lower standard of entry (usu physical - army/police or in a pub 1 gender does not move the barrels) but paying the same, or quotas (not have a problem with minorities).

==
Sexual assault & DV when I last checked from Govt stats, were the only (bodily only?) crimes that women suffered more; everything else was men. The reason why boys & men get demonised is for people to keep their jobs & power - its profitable, like ads. No males r talking about the number of times they got mugged or A/GBH.
Of the 1.2M:0.8M DV reported in F:M ratio, the fact that there has been such unequal spending on men, by the number of places, especially for fathers to take child(ren) as well. Also the way rape & DV's definition has been expanded to make the figures larger, regardless of physical violence.
Should that not be a red flag, that the problem is only being talked about wrt 1 sex? I'm sure the DV number reported by men wouldn't have been so high a decade ago because of the usual shame.

I infer that there may be a similar funding disparity with rape.
Not that I don't think women will still be the majority of these victims, but help should be given to those who need it most. Hence the backlash & "if women don't care about men, why should men care about women". I wonder if this may be why more males don't really care about women anymore to behave in a way that puts them in Everyday Sexism? As more women r seen as competitors.
I only have old stats from N America I posted already, so I must sound like a broken LP (time for a long break from TSR):
2005 data there showed boys are equally raped as girls, with 40% of abusers being female http://menaregood.com/wordpress (author does great YT videos). Just google "boy affair with teacher" & see how many of those teachers are men.
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Also apart from no Govt. Minister for Men, the NUS actively stop Men's Officer being allowed at Uni. Considering men by having replacing Women's officer & u get Gender Officer sparks controversy! Is that privilege or inequality?
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Rational Thinker
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#77
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#77
(Original post by rad_student)
Name:  Red or Blue PandaBird.jpg
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TL DR; Work discrimination can be bias for the married (especially with kids) person, or it could be a lower standard of entry (usu physical - army/police or in a pub 1 gender does not move the barrels) but paying the same, or quotas (not have a problem with minorities).

==
Sexual assault & DV when I last checked from Govt stats, were the only (bodily only?) crimes that women suffered more; everything else was men. The reason why boys & men get demonised is for people to keep their jobs & power - its profitable, like ads. No males r talking about the number of times they got mugged or A/GBH.
Of the 1.2M:0.8M DV reported in F:M ratio, the fact that there has been such unequal spending on men, by the number of places, especially for fathers to take child(ren) as well. Also the way rape & DV's definition has been expanded to make the figures larger, regardless of physical violence.
Should that not be a red flag, that the problem is only being talked about wrt 1 sex? I'm sure the DV number reported by men wouldn't have been so high a decade ago because of the usual shame.

I infer that there may be a similar funding disparity with rape.
Not that I don't think women will still be the majority of these victims, but help should be given to those who need it most. Hence the backlash & "if women don't care about men, why should men care about women". I wonder if this may be why more males don't really care about women anymore to behave in a way that puts them in Everyday Sexism? As more women r seen as competitors.
I only have old stats from N America I posted already, so I must sound like a broken LP (time for a long break from TSR):
2005 data there showed boys are equally raped as girls, with 40% of abusers being female http://menaregood.com/wordpress (author does great YT videos). Just google "boy affair with teacher" & see how many of those teachers are men.
Name:  female-rapists2.jpg
Views: 147
Size:  340.1 KB

Also apart from no Govt. Minister for Men, the NUS actively stop Men's Officer being allowed at Uni. Considering men by having replacing Women's officer & u get Gender Officer sparks controversy! Is that privilege or inequality?
Good point.
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Maid Marian
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#78
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#78
Men.

I don't know why people are saying women, I can't think of many benefits! :erm:
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vendettax
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#79
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#79
(Original post by Maid Marian)
Men.

I don't know why people are saying women, I can't think of many benefits! :erm:
Reading the thread might help.
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Maid Marian
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#80
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#80
(Original post by vendettax)
Reading the thread might help.
I did read the thread, but I don't agree.

Men have life far easier.
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