Immigrants vs Immigrants Watch

Iqbal007
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#61
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#61
(Original post by elohssa)
Those "very few countries" tend to be the ones with a >1% non-African population. I'm sure as more Chinese buy up Africa and continue living better than the locals there will be pogroms against them; there is already a lot of tension.

In the old-world the few non-white countries where minority groups are not only welcome but can live their lives similarly to how they live them back home (freedom or worship etc) tend to be in SE Asia (Singapore etc) and some of the FSU states in central Asia (Kazakhstan etc). Everywhere else the politicians try to keep their states as ethnically and culturally homogenous as they can.
Well yes there is...........but thats not as a result of differences, but due as a result of the Chinese coming into the market and using far more efficient business techniques allowing them to offer things at a cheaper price, etc.

That's not true entirely..........especially in emerging places in Africa, the middle east and China........their growth depends on external support.
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Heliosphan
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#62
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(Original post by thunder_chunky)
Non whites clearly means immigrants. I'm sure none of those people in the first picture were born here. None whatsoever. :rolleyes:
Well yes, it does pretty much. First or second generation immigrants in all probability, meaning that some are not British at all and the rest are merely civicly British.

And just look at the picture again and pause for a moment. That picture could be, in all fairness, any number of major cities throughout Europe or indeed some third-world shanty-town. That's what multiculturalism does, it makes everywhere look the same. Hope you're enjoying the diversity.
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thunder_chunky
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#63
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(Original post by Heliosphan)
Well yes, it does pretty much. First or second generation immigrants in all probability, meaning that some are not British at all and the rest are merely civicly British.

And just look at the picture again and pause for a moment. That picture could be, in all fairness, any number of major cities throughout Europe or indeed some third-world shanty-town. That's what multiculturalism does, it makes everywhere look the same. Hope you're enjoying the diversity.
No I'm pretty sure that if they were born here and raised here and if they are citizens and their parents are citizens then that makes them British and not immigrants. Just as much as you or I (if you're British.) One of my very best friends is second generation British, she's British. No doubt about it. Born here to two immigrants who moved here as adults, raised here, educated here, and works here. The same could apply to any one of the people in that queue.
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Heliosphan
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#64
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(Original post by thunder_chunky)
No I'm pretty sure that if they were born here and raised here and if they are citizens and their parents are citizens then that makes them British and not immigrants. Just as much as you or I (if you're British.) One of my very best friends is second generation British, she's British. No doubt about it. Born here to two immigrants who moved here as adults, raised here, educated here, and works here. The same could apply to any one of the people in that queue.
She has no ancestry, heritage and has not a thimble of British blood in her. She's civicly British and of foreign ethnicity.
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thunder_chunky
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#65
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(Original post by Heliosphan)
She has no ancestry, heritage and has not a thimble of British blood in her. She's civicly British and of foreign ethnicity.
Does that go for third generation immigrants too? What if she and her Indian born husband have children, will they be British in your eyes? I think you'll find she is a British citizen, her ethnicity is irrelevant. In the same way that she isn't an immigrant, the same could be said for some of those people in the first picture in the OP. To assume they are immigrants because they are not white is a ridiculous assumption. Exactly the sort of thing you'd expect in a tabloid though, and exactly the sort of opinion you'd get with tabloid readers. I'm curious as to what lengths a person would have to be to be thought of as British.
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Ggmu!
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#66
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(Original post by Heliosphan)
She has no ancestry, heritage and has not a thimble of British blood in her. She's civicly British and of foreign ethnicity.
What's British blood? You have no connection to the indigenous populations of the United Kingdom. You're a mix of lots of races. That doesn't suddenly become 'British blood'.

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Heliosphan
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#67
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#67
(Original post by thunder_chunky)
Does that go for third generation immigrants too? What if she and her Indian born husband have children, will they be British in your eyes? I think you'll find she is a British citizen, her ethnicity is irrelevant. In the same way that she isn't an immigrant, the same could be said for some of those people in the first picture in the OP. To assume they are immigrants because they are not white is a ridiculous assumption
And I think you will find that I'm not denying any of that, read what I said.

From a practical and legal context the point about your friend being as British as you or I is correct but in any other context, due to her foreign descent, it is an utterly laughable notion. Ethnicity, along with a number of other things, is how national identity is defined. So a significant influx of foreigners, with different ethnicities, is a means of eroding that.

Whether those people in the photograph were born here is irrelevant. They may as well be immigrants because they are not identifiably British people. Furthermore, they have no link whatsoever to who the British are, certainly not in any historic or traditional sense. And as I said, that photograph could have been taken in one of a number of locations and is therefore a visual confirmation of the assault on British identity.

(Original post by Ggmu!)
What's British blood? You have no connection to the indigenous populations of the United Kingdom. You're a mix of lots of races. That doesn't suddenly become 'British blood'.
Studies have shown that the vast majority of white-British people share around three-quarters of their genes with ice-age hunter-gatherers. I'd say that's a fairly significant link to the indigenous people.

The fact is, the continuous population of this land was never significantly impacted by any instance of invaders/immigrants. Sure, numerous peoples landed here but the fact remains that none of them (that's NONE) came in huge numbers relative to the overall population of the time. That's why the overall gene pool wasn't changed very much. Any degree of honest research beyond that of a GCSE textbook will reveal this.
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Ggmu!
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#68
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#68
(Original post by Heliosphan)
Studies have shown that the vast majority of white-British people share around three-quarters of their genes with ice-age hunter-gatherers. I'd say that's a fairly significant link to the indigenous people.

The fact is, the continuous population of this land was never significantly impacted by any instance of invaders/immigrants. Sure, numerous peoples landed here but the fact remains that none of them (that's NONE) came in huge numbers relative to the overall population of the time. That's why the overall gene pool wasn't changed very much. Any degree of honest research beyond that of a GCSE textbook will reveal this.
Fair enough...

It seems like your issue is more to do with ethnicity? Do you feel like your ethnic group is at risk from immigrant communities?
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thunder_chunky
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#69
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(Original post by Heliosphan)
And I think you will find that I'm not denying any of that, read what I said.

From a practical and legal context the point about your friend being as British as you or I is correct but in any other context, due to her foreign descent, it is an utterly laughable notion. Ethnicity, along with a number of other things, is how national identity is defined. So a significant influx of foreigners, with different ethnicities, is a means of eroding that.

Whether those people in the photograph were born here is irrelevant. They may as well be immigrants because they are not identifiably British people. Furthermore, they have no link whatsoever to who the British are, certainly not in any historic or traditional sense. And as I said, that photograph could have been taken in one of a number of locations and is therefore a visual confirmation of the assault on British identity.
.
Saying "they may as well be immigrants" isn't the same. Nor does that make them less British. What is entirely relevant is that is that some of the people in that photograph may have been born here because it means that the use of it to scaremonger about immigration seems even more ridiculous.
You talk about the link to who the British are, but what exactly is British to you? Being born here clearly isn't enough so is it having family born here for more than three or four generations? Because that wouldn't make me completely British. Or do people have to be white to be British in your eyes?
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Heliosphan
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#70
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(Original post by Ggmu!)
Fair enough...

It seems like your issue is more to do with ethnicity? Do you feel like your ethnic group is at risk from immigrant communities?
My issue tends to be the extent of immigration and how white-British people are becoming minoritised in certain areas.

(Original post by thunder_chunky)
Saying "they may as well be immigrants" isn't the same. Nor does that make them less British. What is entirely relevant is that is that some of the people in that photograph may have been born here because it means that the use of it to scaremonger about immigration seems even more ridiculous.
You talk about the link to who the British are, but what exactly is British to you? Being born here clearly isn't enough so is it having family born here for more than three or four generations? Because that wouldn't make me completely British. Or do people have to be white to be British in your eyes?
Given that I'm talking about descent, the answer to your question is a resounding yes. In my opinion, a person cannot be truly British if they don't descend from the ancient Britons or other stocks commonly associated with British people. This is who the British are, let's not be shy in admitting that. On that basis, it makes no difference how long a person lives here, you either have that heredity or you don't. Going back to your friend, if her children or grandchildren only breed within their own ethnicity then I wouldn't consider them to be truly British, other than from a formal perspective.

If a picture paints a thousand words, then that picture certainly does. Whilst not being entirely representative, it certainly hints at how the demographics of London have changed. Most people in London are of an ethnicity other than that of white-British. Over a third of London residents were born abroad. If that isn't an erosion of identity (in the historical sense) then I don't know what is. I believe it to be irrelevant whether those people were born here or not because they aren't British in the heredity sense and therefore contribute to the minoritisation of white-British people.

Are we now so PC that we have to pretty much deny our origins, ignore obvious distinctions and call everyone British so as not to upset someone?
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Alpha brah
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#71
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See, kiddies, this is what happens when you read the Daily Mail.
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Yakob
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#72
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#72
(Original post by Heliosphan)
My issue tends to be the extent of immigration and how white-British people are becoming minoritised in certain areas.



Given that I'm talking about descent, the answer to your question is a resounding yes. In my opinion, a person cannot be truly British if they don't descend from the ancient Britons or other stocks commonly associated with British people. This is who the British are, let's not be shy in admitting that. On that basis, it makes no difference how long a person lives here, you either have that heredity or you don't. Going back to your friend, if her children or grandchildren only breed within their own ethnicity then I wouldn't consider them to be truly British, other than from a formal perspective.

If a picture paints a thousand words, then that picture certainly does. Whilst not being entirely representative, it certainly hints at how the demographics of London have changed. Most people in London are of an ethnicity other than that of white-British. Over a third of London residents were born abroad. If that isn't an erosion of identity (in the historical sense) then I don't know what is. I believe it to be irrelevant whether those people were born here or not because they aren't British in the heredity sense and therefore contribute to the minoritisation of white-British people.

Are we now so PC that we have to pretty much deny our origins, ignore obvious distinctions and call everyone British so as not to upset someone?
This, this, this, this.

Funny enough, you are arguing with someone who has an Asian background. So obviously they will be offended.
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Ggmu!
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#73
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#73
(Original post by Yakob)
This, this, this, this.

Funny enough, you are arguing with someone who has an Asian background. So obviously they will be offended.
I'm not offendesd, i totally understand where he is coming from. The)

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Yakob
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#74
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#74
(Original post by Ggmu!)
I'm not offendesd, i totally understand where he is coming from. The)

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I don't you do.

Every day, more and more people are speaking less English. I could walk down a street and feel like I'm in Pakistan. In my own country, I could meet hostility due to being from this country.

We have a religion that has no major positive affect on this country and is growing and growing and will become a big problem.

We have have London which is multiracial. But at the same time, heavily segregated. Pakistani, White, Black whatever, walk down a street that is occupied by a race other than your own and you will not have a good time.

People are now scared to call out race crimes, such as Asian sex gangs. Why? Because of fear of offending them.

Our own laws are turned against us. Laws that were supposed to help and protect the people of our country, but now are twisted by foreigners and used against us. Affecting us financially, affecting the justice system and education system.

We can have a Muslim school over here, where non-muslims are allowed to learn but we have a Catholic school where Muslims can simply enter? Excuse me?

We have now got an increase in terrorism from home grown terrorists. "British" Muslims who hate the very country they were either born, raised or both.

The Brits wouldn't have such an issue if our country values and beliefs were being disintegrated.

Because of "multiculturalism", it has wiped this country out. We really are the trash can of the world. Why? Because anyone can enter, racist, non racist, criminal, non-criminal, legal or illegal. You can just turn up and get money, a house and education.

Multiculturalism will not work, England is a lovely example of it. I don't see why so many Blacks, Asians etc try to be "British", you will never be British. Ethnically anyway, you don't see Brits going abroad and suddenly claim to be French.

Even if your 3rd generation Black, you will be Black, not British. Mannerism wise, you are British. But not good enough, even foreigners have managed to twist this. Any foreign can cry "racism!" at the most trivial things and get money from it! Why? Human rights.

I honestly would love to see a mass exoddus of Christians or Jews move all overthe Middle East, see churches being erected at every corner possible with streets being patrolled by Christians trying to enforce Christian beliefs. God, the uproar and hypocrisy of Asians these days is hysterical.
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mahyerye
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#75
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Jeez... so much racism here. Chill out, people!
How would you feel if you were born as an asiatic/african/romanian/gipsy etc woman/man? How would you feel if you were rejected because of your ethnicity? We should start to evaluate people looking at their personality and not at their nationality.
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ChaosisaLadder
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#76
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#76
(Original post by Heliosphan)
My issue tends to be the extent of immigration and how white-British people are becoming minoritised in certain areas.



Given that I'm talking about descent, the answer to your question is a resounding yes. In my opinion, a person cannot be truly British if they don't descend from the ancient Britons or other stocks commonly associated with British people. This is who the British are, let's not be shy in admitting that. On that basis, it makes no difference how long a person lives here, you either have that heredity or you don't. Going back to your friend, if her children or grandchildren only breed within their own ethnicity then I wouldn't consider them to be truly British, other than from a formal perspective.

If a picture paints a thousand words, then that picture certainly does. Whilst not being entirely representative, it certainly hints at how the demographics of London have changed. Most people in London are of an ethnicity other than that of white-British. Over a third of London residents were born abroad. If that isn't an erosion of identity (in the historical sense) then I don't know what is. I believe it to be irrelevant whether those people were born here or not because they aren't British in the heredity sense and therefore contribute to the minoritisation of white-British people.

Are we now so PC that we have to pretty much deny our origins, ignore obvious distinctions and call everyone British so as not to upset someone?
This is arbitrary. My dad is black Caribbean and my mum is white English. My dad recently found out that his great great grandfather was the son of an indentured servant from Scotland as white as they come who got with a black woman. And his father was white Scottish and his father was white Scottish bla bla bla as far as he could research back. Only the last four were black on his father's side. He would never have known that if he hadn't have done research. You would have just looked at his colour and assumed his line was African all the way through... does his brother who still lives in the Caribbean and never been to Scotland have more ties now to Scotland than someone who was born there and lived there their whole lives. Sounds ludicrous to me.
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Viva Emptiness
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#77
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(Original post by ChaosisaLadder)
This is arbitrary. My dad is black Caribbean and my mum is white English. My dad recently found out that his great great grandfather was the son of an indentured servant from Scotland as white as they come who got with a black woman. And his father was white Scottish and his father was white Scottish bla bla bla as far as he could research back. Only the last four were black on his father's side. He would never have known that if he hadn't have done research. You would have just looked at his colour and assumed his line was African all the way through... does his brother who still lives in the Caribbean and never been to Scotland have more ties now to Scotland than someone who was born there and lived there their whole lives. Sounds ludicrous to me.
I agree with this. I am struggling to understand the concept of 'truly British'. To look at me and to know me is to see the whitest, middlest class Brit you can imagine. I was raised here in the UK, was privately educated here, own a home here, have 'British' friends here, have a UK passport, have a job here, consider myself to be 100% British, yet my grandfather was an aborigine. Does that mean I am no longer British? Or am I just a little bit British? Or perhaps and arbitrary amount of British?
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ConnorB
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#78
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That queue of loads of Asian men is actually quite easy to understand.

Pakistan and India have massive markets for this stuff, but Apple won't release the phone the same time as they do over there, massive black market occurs there, only allowed 1 iphone at these launch events, so everyone brings their mates and then sells them on to a middle man in Asia for profit.
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Ggmu!
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#79
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Sooo... I'm not British. And I can't be.

Quite disappointing people think like that.

So who would I fight for in a world war? This is the only place I've ever lived.

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Le-JokerFr
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#80
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(Original post by thunder_chunky)
Does that go for third generation immigrants too? What if she and her Indian born husband have children, will they be British in your eyes? I think you'll find she is a British citizen, her ethnicity is irrelevant. In the same way that she isn't an immigrant, the same could be said for some of those people in the first picture in the OP. To assume they are immigrants because they are not white is a ridiculous assumption. Exactly the sort of thing you'd expect in a tabloid though, and exactly the sort of opinion you'd get with tabloid readers. I'm curious as to what lengths a person would have to be to be thought of as British.

You are à British citizen, you are British.
English ??...probably not.


You can also claim to be British as you were born and raised in England, but English is not a nationality, British is. If you are a citizen of India then you can say with confidence that you are Indian. If not a citizen, then it's probably more accurate to describe yourself as being of Indian descent.


As you or your parents come from India for you to say you are English would be an insult (just the same as if I were to call you a wog or Paki (no racism intended)), I understand why you consider such words offencive therefore you must understand that trying to steal our identity is just as offencive to the English.


As within Britain I identify myself as English rather than British - I don't relate to Scots or Welsh the way I relate to the English. But then I don't have anything against non-English Britons.


English = born and bred in England.
British = Could be either English, Scottish, Welsh or N. Irish or someone who holds a British passport through entitlement.


I am British English.
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