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Do you agree with nationalisation? Railways, energy and utility companies. watch

  • View Poll Results: Should we nationalise our rail and energy companies?
    Yes - I agree with nationalisation.
    34
    56.67%
    No - I'm against nationalisation.
    22
    36.67%
    Indifferent.
    4
    6.67%

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    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    Have you considered the knock on effects on the welfare of the British people when the international hedge funds, brokers, pensions funds and national governments who you're stealing from decide to stop dealing with the UK? I think you'll find that international trade sanctions, mass unemployment and the collapse of the UK financial sector will make expensive trains look attractive.
    I am sorry, but that is absolute nonsense.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Yeah, another thread. But they weren't making a profit (BR and British Coal Board certainly, mebby the energy industry was), so they were sucking money not supplementing it.
    Because London let them. In the Nordic countries, that is not the case. People in the Nordic countries are regarded as having capacity by their government. In the UK, people have to stand out the way and allow those with money and power make these decisions.
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    (Original post by M_Craig)
    YES. I have a Bring Back British Rail sticker on my laptop and the FREE stickers I ordered from the Bring Back British Rail sticker have been really popular with all my friends. I also have the ticket wallet which was only £2 and always raises a smile/eyebrows from fellow passengers/staff (decide which one is which for yourself!!). You just have to look at East Coast - cheapest franchise in the UK and it's tremendously popular.

    With regards to the rail fare increase, I now have to pay £100 a month for a season ticket - my daily commute is 20 minutes. Got to love living in the suburbs of Glasgow...
    I hope you are voting for Scottish independence then. Voting no means more of that. Costs will continue to climb up and up, but your wages never will.
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    Sooooo jealous....I have the barriers at Central to deal with every morning. I like to play a game of 'Will the ticket work today?'. I miss the old days where you could actually get the train you wanted before they stupid barriers appeared!
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    (Original post by Choo.choo)
    Because London let them. In the Nordic countries, that is not the case. People in the Nordic countries are regarded as having capacity by their government. In the UK, people have to stand out the way and allow those with money and power make these decisions.
    I'm really glad you've brought up the Nordic model - the single most successful economic model in the world. Through trade unions, workers and consumers have an active role in the decision making process inside public and private institutions. Pay dispute? The government brings trade union leaders into big mutual conferences between leaders to reach a resolution that works for ordinary working people. There's no private equity investment, hedge funds or any other type of abstract financial project going on inside the Nordic public companies.

    Nationalised industry was doing very well under Attlee and successive Labour governments, but went into decline after Tory ones abandoned them.
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    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    Hey Rakas. Do you ever get a sense of deja vu when these come up? Another good example on these is power, because the French government still owns 80% of EDF, and I think we might find trade with the EU a little difficult if we stole billions of quids worth of assets from them (E.On is based and traded in Germany with a good deal of local investment, so it looks like we'd be annoying the entire mainland)
    That just sums up what is wrong with privatisation, in its entirety.
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    (Original post by Choo.choo)
    You are wrong about that. Free market promotes public money for private profit. In other words, people hand their money for someone rich to get richer. The benefits of public services should be shared by the whole nation. Not a handful of a select few who get rich at the expense of others. Why do you think energy bills recently went up by 9%?
    My guess is that the increase in energy bills was in some way linked to the increasing burden of ill advised green initiatives which do nothing to solve the problem they're aimed at while dumping the cost of a political grand gesture on the public.
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    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    Hey Rakas. Do you ever get a sense of deja vu when these come up? Another good example on these is power, because the French government still owns 80% of EDF, and I think we might find trade with the EU a little difficult if we stole billions of quids worth of assets from them (E.On is based and traded in Germany with a good deal of local investment, so it looks like we'd be annoying the entire mainland)
    Indeed, the water link actually came from your compensation bill. Thankfully i think he accepted the need to compensate some people a few posts up (though no plans on how to pay). Indeed, actually the Welsh government also owns a water company through a Network Rail like structure, without compensation you'd effectively be taking Welsh pensions to pay for their water to be run from Westminster.
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    (Original post by JamesGibson)
    Nationalised industry was doing very well under Attlee and successive Labour governments, but went into decline after Tory ones abandoned them.
    And thats why the 'Branch Lines Committee' of the British Transport Commission was formed in 1949 under Attlee and Beaching announced the more infamous of the cuts in 1962 under Wilson?
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    (Original post by Choo.choo)
    You are wrong about that. Free market promotes public money for private profit. In other words, people hand their money for someone rich to get richer. The benefits of public services should be shared by the whole nation. Not a handful of a select few who get rich at the expense of others. Why do you think energy bills recently went up by 9%?
    With ever rising costs and infrastructure maintenance, you think the Government would be able to sustain low prices? The private sector are much more innovative, undoubtedly. You cannot blame private companies for wanting to increase prices to yield the same profit margins. Ofcourse, regulation should be imposed however nationalising these industries would benefit people only in the short-term.
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    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    My guess is that the increase in energy bills was in some way linked to the increasing burden of ill advised green initiatives which do nothing to solve the problem they're aimed at while dumping the cost of a political grand gesture on the public.
    No. The increase in energy bills comes from these companies being privatised. Privatisation means public money for private profit. If you run your own business (you are a private business) and your customers (where the public money comes from) pay you for your service. They hand you their money, and when you make a profit, you keep that money for yourself. You don't say to them: "I made a £1billion profit this year". Does anyone want any of it? No, of course you don't. You hang on to it. Then you decide to put the price up the following year, and make an even bigger profit, which you can do because the business is yours, and you can do what you want.
    So nationalisation is preferable to privatisation.
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    (Original post by Abdul-Karim)
    With ever rising costs and infrastructure maintenance, you think the Government would be able to sustain low prices? The private sector are much more innovative, undoubtedly. You cannot blame private companies for wanting to increase prices to yield the same profit margins. Ofcourse, regulation should be imposed however nationalising these industries would benefit people only in the short-term.
    Public services should be run for the public, not for a rich person to reap the benefits and get richer, whilst poor folk get worse off because prices rise faster than their income.
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    (Original post by Choo.choo)
    Public services should be run for the public, not for a rich person to reap the benefits and get richer, whilst poor folk get worse off because prices rise faster than their income.
    And whats a public service?
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    (Original post by Choo.choo)
    Public services should be run for the public, not for a rich person to reap the benefits and get richer, whilst poor folk get worse off because prices rise faster than their income.
    Okay, for national rail, understandably. What about energy companies?
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    (Original post by Abdul-Karim)
    Okay, for national rail, understandably. What about energy companies?
    Energy companies should also be ran by the public.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    British Shipbuilders are dead in the water (we aren't bad at breaking them for decommissioning, but we don't make anything), hardly more productive.
    You are a bit behind the times my friend. British shipbuilding is undergoing something of a renaissance. Cammell Laird are now taking orders for newbuilds after a more than a decade-long gap, A&P has invested millions of pounds in their facilities at Hebburn, Falmouth and Middlesborough while Harland & Wolff, Appledore and BaE all have full order books.

    However, this renaissance has only been possible because of huge private investment and the yards focussing on certain areas of the industry. The problem with British Shipbuilders is that they tried to out-compete countries like South Korea and Taiwan at building bulkers and container ships.

    If the British yards had been in private hands maybe they'd have ended up like Meyer Werft in Germany rather than mostly shutting down.

    (Original post by Quady)
    British Rail, it doesn't feel any more reliable, the West Coast mainline is improved with pendalinos (a technology researched/tested by BR in the 70s), the East Coast mainline and the line from London to Bristol/Cardiff still run on Intercity 125s from the 70s. Ever been on Northern Rail? Their rolling stock is prehistoric. The sleeper trains look and feel as BR as they are.
    People used to complain about British Rail being always late and overpriced and that criticism still stands. The fact is that fares have been increasing at a slower rate than they did under British Rail (http://www.govtoday.co.uk/transport-...-fare-increase) and we have more trains running now than we did back then. Thats seems more efficient to me.

    (Original post by Quady)
    British Aerospace has advanced, as would be expected after 25 years.
    Rather like shipbuilding, I'd suggest the aerospace industry advanced in spite of it's time as British Aerospace rather than because of it.

    (Original post by Quady)
    British Coal, well thats in a pensions mess, certainly not more productive...
    But it doesn't cost us huge amounts in subsities any more either.
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    (Original post by M_Craig)
    YES. I have a Bring Back British Rail sticker on my laptop and the FREE stickers I ordered from the Bring Back British Rail sticker have been really popular with all my friends. I also have the ticket wallet which was only £2 and always raises a smile/eyebrows from fellow passengers/staff (decide which one is which for yourself!!). You just have to look at East Coast - cheapest franchise in the UK and it's tremendously popular.

    With regards to the rail fare increase, I now have to pay £100 a month for a season ticket - my daily commute is 20 minutes. Got to love living in the suburbs of Glasgow...
    £100 per month is still cheaper than running a car.

    May I ask how old you are? I mean are you of an age that you can remember British rail?
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    (Original post by flugelr)
    You are a bit behind the times my friend. British shipbuilding is undergoing something of a renaissance. Cammell Laird are now taking orders for newbuilds after a more than a decade-long gap, A&P has invested millions of pounds in their facilities at Hebburn, Falmouth and Middlesborough while Harland & Wolff, Appledore and BaE all have full order books.

    However, this renaissance has only been possible because of huge private investment and the yards focussing on certain areas of the industry. The problem with British Shipbuilders is that they tried to out-compete countries like South Korea and Taiwan at building bulkers and container ships.

    If the British yards had been in private hands maybe they'd have ended up like Meyer Werft in Germany rather than mostly shutting down.


    People used to complain about British Rail being always late and overpriced and that criticism still stands. The fact is that fares have been increasing at a slower rate than they did under British Rail (http://www.govtoday.co.uk/transport-...-fare-increase) and we have more trains running now than we did back then. Thats seems more efficient to me.


    Rather like shipbuilding, I'd suggest the aerospace industry advanced in spite of it's time as British Aerospace rather than because of it.


    But it doesn't cost us huge amounts in subsities any more either.
    Were you just using my posts to highlight topics, or do you think you were in some way disagreeing with me...? (apart from the shipbuilding, where its hardly like we are back in the 60s)
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    £100 per month is still cheaper than running a car.

    May I ask how old you are? I mean are you of an age that you can remember British rail?

    Yes, I am paying £100 a month because I cannot afford to run a car.

    Old enough to see what a nationalised franchise, i.e. East Coast, looks like.
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    (Original post by M_Craig)
    Old enough to see what a nationalised franchise, i.e. East Coast, looks like.
    Its no different to when National Express were running it though...
 
 
 
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