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If you are male and vegetarian, GTFIH watch

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    (Original post by 419)
    I was giving my example!!!!
    Then don't quote me.
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    (Original post by cascadingstylez)
    Male, Vegan.

    I don't really tell anyone. I eat what I eat. If they don't like it, that's their problem. It's not a big deal that I don't eat meat.

    (Original post by tomclarky)
    You cannot compare eating fish to eating meat. They are not morally the same. Fish do not have the ability to feel emotion and therefore suffer. They sense pain don't get me wrong, but their awarness of it is hugely different to cows, pigs and chickens.
    So if they feel pain that would make them moral subjects, no?
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    (Original post by clh_hilary)
    Then don't quote me.
    Sorry, it shall happen again
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    (Original post by 419)
    Sorry, it shall happen again
    ill get milegend to curse u brah if u do
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    (Original post by clh_hilary)
    ill get milegend to curse u brah if u do
    challenge accepted

    tell milegend to be at alert
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    (Original post by 419)
    challenge accepted

    tell milegend to be at alert
    ill tweet her if u dun behave
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    So if they feel pain that would make them moral subjects, no?
    If a fish's response to pain was anything more than just an unconscious survival instinct then i would consider the ethical implications of eating them closer to meat.
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    (Original post by tomclarky)
    If a fish's response to pain was anything more than just an unconscious survival instinct then i would consider the ethical implications of eating them closer to meat.
    Pain cannot be unconscious. You seem to be philosophically confused about the nature of sensation.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Pain cannot be unconscious. You seem to be philosophically confused about the nature of sensation.
    We're getting into the semantics of what constituits pain. My point is that a fish's perception of pain and suffering is very different to that of the animals we raise and slaughter for their meat, therefore to me there is a clear ethical difference between eating a cow and a fish. My original post was in response to someone saying that if you eat fish then you might aswell just eat meat, as if the level of inflicted cruelty is equal, which i think is a bit of an absolutist stance to take.

    I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Are you trying to say that you see the mistreatment and killing of any animal as being morally the same?
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    (Original post by tomclarky)
    We're getting into the semantics of what constituits pain. My point is that a fish's perception of pain and suffering is very different to that of the animals we raise and slaughter for their meat, therefore to me there is a clear ethical difference between eating a cow and a fish. My original post was in response to someone saying that if you eat fish then you might aswell just eat meat, as if the level of inflicted cruelty is equal, which i think is a bit of an absolutist stance to take.

    I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Are you trying to say that you see the mistreatment and killing of any animal as being morally the same?
    Morally the same? No. But all of it in the industry seems to be immoral.

    And you said that fish don't consciously feel pain but feel pain unconsciously. We're not getting into semantics, you're contradicting yourself. You can't say they feel pain but that it isn't conscious because pain (at least physical pain, which is what we're talking about) is necessarily conscious.

    Saying we're getting into semantics is wrong because we're not. We're getting into a necessarily false statement you made.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Morally the same? No. But all of it in the industry seems to be immoral.

    And you said that fish don't consciously feel pain but feel pain unconsciously. We're not getting into semantics, you're contradicting yourself. You can't say they feel pain but that it isn't conscious because pain (at least physical pain, which is what we're talking about) is necessarily conscious.

    Saying we're getting into semantics is wrong because we're not. We're getting into a necessarily false statement you made.
    I meant that their response to pain isn't the same as other animals because they lack a neo cortex and therefore don't react to pain in any emotional way through feeling anguish or sadness like a lot of animals would. Maybe I should've said that a fish's pain response is just of a vastly different level of consciousness to that of other animals, rather than it being completely unconscious, if it bothers you that much

    It's semantics in the sense that it is a minor issue in relation to the point I was making as a whole, which I know you understand fully.
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    (Original post by tomclarky)
    I meant that their response to pain isn't the same as other animals because they lack a neo cortex and therefore don't react to pain in any emotional way through feeling anguish or sadness like a lot of animals would. Maybe I should've said that a fish's pain response is just of a vastly different level of consciousness to that of other animals, rather than it being completely unconscious, if it bothers you that much

    It's semantics in the sense that it is a minor issue in relation to the point I was making as a whole, which I know you understand fully.
    I don't see how it can be a minor point, but you knowing I disagree with the meat industries you probably understand that fully already anyway.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    I don't see how it can be a minor point, but you knowing I disagree with the meat industries you probably understand that fully already anyway.
    I also disagree with meat industry which is why i don't eat it, but my original point still stands that farming and slaughtering a cow or catching a fish are not morally equatable if their capacities for pain and suffering, emotionally and physically, are vastly different. Trying to argue whether or not fish are technically conscious for them to experience 'pain' by definition is a relatively minor issue, considering you already knew the point i was trying to make.
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    (Original post by tomclarky)
    I also disagree with meat industry which is why i don't eat it, but my original point still stands that farming and slaughtering a cow or catching a fish are not morally equatable if their capacities for pain and suffering, emotionally and physically, are vastly different. Trying to argue whether or not fish are technically conscious for them to experience 'pain' by definition is a relatively minor issue, considering you already knew the point i was trying to make.
    Not really as the question remains:
    Independent of whether eating fish is as bad as or not as bad as eating fish from a moral perspective; is eating fish morally wrong?
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Not really as the question remains:
    Independent of whether eating fish is as bad as or not as bad as eating fish from a moral perspective; is eating fish morally wrong?
    I don't think you can give a definitive yes or no to that type of question because it depends on many factors. I don't consider it to be anywhere near as cruel as intensive factory farming methods with livestock.
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    Male veggie here! Get judged a little bit but there's more reason to be a vegetarian then there are not to be, so we usually win an argument on the topic haha
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    (Original post by tomclarky)
    I don't think you can give a definitive yes or no to that type of question because it depends of many factors. I don't consider it to be anywhere near as cruel as intensive factory farming methods with livestock.
    You're still making a comparison.

    And if it is arbitrary to you living then I don't see how it's dependent on many factors.

    The same logic may apply even if it isn't 'as bad' in your opinion.
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    (Original post by syrettd)
    If you're vegan for the ethical treatment of animals- if you kept chickens would you eat the eggs?

    My friend got drunk one night and got obsessed with this question, so I figured I'd get her an answer.
    Vegans don't eat animal products as well as their flesh so no. Also, some people also consider eggs to be chicken period or an aborted chicken foetus.




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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    You're still making a comparison.

    And if it is arbitrary to you living then I don't see how it's dependent on many factors.

    The same logic may apply even if it isn't 'as bad' in your opinion.
    Lol i'm still making the comparison because that's the whole reason i came into this thread in the first place, to answer to someone suggesting that they were ethically exactly the same. Since when do i have to give a definitive answer to if it is wrong or not? As i said, it isn't as simple as an absolutist yes or no, as with most moral aruguments. But no, i don't feel overly guilty if a fish has died and then i eat it.
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    (Original post by bertstare)
    Just wondering does anyone ever take you seriously?
    Do you walk around with stakes on your shoulder and blood dripping down your back. Idk that's just the impression I get.

    (Original post by tomclarky)
    I don't think you can give a definitive yes or no to that type of question because it depends of many factors. I don't consider it to be anywhere near as cruel as intensive factory farming methods with livestock.
    Agreed.
 
 
 
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