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Meat eaters, defend your position Watch

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    (Original post by Dragneel)
    Aren't plants living, breathing organisms just like animals are?
    no.
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    (Original post by xbellex)
    I don't know why I read threads like this, because the majority of the responses makes me feel so sad at how other humans care so little for animals
    I've been vegan for a few years now, because I decided to educate myself on the abuse and torture that goes on in dairy farms and slaughter houses (before their death), and it sucks to know that my actions will amount to so little because most of the population still views certain animals as being nothing more than 'our food'
    1. If you're supplementing your diet with protein powder you're adding to mass industries that harm the environment.

    2. Food that veggies eat like Tofu has a terrible carbon footprint and is leaving forests completely obliterated - I hope you've educated yourself on these devastating affects too. Soy production is a leading cause of deforestation.

    3. Vitamin B12 - if you're supplementing to take it then you're actually living on a part man made and not entirely natural diet because you need a man made supplement to ensure you get all the nutrients you need. If you don't supplement your diet with Vitamin B12 then you're missing out on an extremely important nutrient.

    4. If you want to help contribute to an industry that damages the environment and risk your own health with man made supplements or going without key nutrients/amino acids that we can only get from meats so long as it means the animals are okay then fair enough. I'd rather ensure I'm getting the key nutrients I need and not contribute to a disgusting industry that promotes alternatives at the expense of the environment.

    The holier than thou attitude of some vegetarians and vegans annoys the hell out of me tbh.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    no.
    Well okay, not breathing. However, that doesn't change my point.
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    (Original post by Dragneel)
    Well okay, not breathing. However, that doesn't change my point.
    Photosynthesis is very different from respiration (what we do).
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    Despite all the moral considerations people may have about eating meat, you must admit that the human body is designed to eat a combination of both meat and vegetables. People that eat meat (including myself) are simply following what is natural for them to do.

    You may suggest that the fact that we have these moral considerations in the first place means that we should behave accordingly: animals eat meat of other animals and are (most probably) unaware of morality as a concept. I would reply that though this point is valid to make, we are, as a race, both human animal and human being.
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    Just because plants lack nervous system or obvious consciousness does not mean they have less of a "right to life" than any other living creature.

    Don't discriminate against plants!!!!

    Seriously though, the right to life argument applies to plants and animals.

    The lack of ability to defend themselves argument is pointless seeing plants are in an even worse position.

    Causing suffering to another living creature argument is again pointless, seeing killing a plant is technically "harming" it.

    The only argument non-meat eaters have is the whole pain and suffering aspect. Even then (my argument is a weak one) how do we know plants do not have a conscious pain system beyond our comprehension. Some (most actually) plants can actively move towards certain things, they've even been shown to try and move away from fire etc.

    Finally my defense to my disgraceful meat eating behaviour is.... Bacon.... Just bacon.... it's the corner stone of our defense :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    Spending time in the company of a chicken will tell you all you need to know about why it is okay to kill chickens for meat.
    also our chickens eat chickens without a fuss and they're perfectly healthy (obviously we don't just feed them chicken)
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Photosynthesis is very different from respiration (what we do).
    Plants respire as well. They need to get their energy from somewhere...:rolleyes:
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Photosynthesis is very different from respiration (what we do).
    Back to KS3 science for you
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    (Original post by Mysticmeg)
    Plants respire as well. They need to get their energy from somewhere...:rolleyes:
    *tries to recall biology from school*

    What mean is the way plants gets stuff out of the air is different to how animals do it. I may have got stuff wrong. Screw biology
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    It's a simple food chain just like any other food chain in the animal kingdom. It's quite obvious evolution has allowed tuned humans to eat meat and plants, both of which are forms of life. Hence it is only natural to eat meat just like it is only natural to eat plants. Most vegetarians would have no objection to other species of omnivores eating other animals, so why only expand this idea to humans?
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    The whole veggi argument is about as flawed. Just like like the electric car crowd... who don't realise most of the electricity they use to charge their cars still comes from coal or nuclear power plants :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by DanB1991)
    Just like like the electric car crowd... who don't realise most of the electricity they use to charge their cars still comes from coal or nuclear power plants :rolleyes:
    Except unlike cars (Which people tend to keep for a long time, particularly less well off individuals or families), the electrical infrastructure is constantly changing. The same power grid and cars will work when we have fully transitioned to renewable power. I don't think a gas engine will suddenly change to work on solar power once we do so.

    Also, burning 100% natural gas to power a car is undeniably worse than burning, maybe, half fossil and using half from renewable sources.

    But to re-rail the topic, I don't think it's wrong. I think there's a lot more things wrong than eating meat, like poverty and people starving. Using your computer is probably actively, albeit non-directly, causing the death of quite a lot of animals. Insects getting too close to hot components, being ran over by trucks delivering goods required for you to run it, or for the electrical grid to stay active. If anyone was as pro-animal as some vegans claim they are, they'd be making way more compromises than just their diet.
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    Well, the pollution aspect is something no one will be able to defend. We breed so much livestock that they produce more greenhouse gases than cars, planes, and ships put together. The government will have to deal with that eventually.

    (Original post by Entangled)
    Ideally you do your best to respect the life that ended to feed you though - that means trying to eat a lot (within reason) of a specific animal; eating livers, kidneys and hearts; using suet for pastry; a chicken carcass is boiled up to make stock. In my mind, it rightfully has its place in a symphony of flavour if you follow those rules of thumb.
    I think that's the problem with it personally. The killing process is so far removed from our every day lives that people don't appreciate what is actually happening. I feel a bit meh when I see people throwing bits of meat away, it's so disrespectful.
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    (Original post by xbellex)
    I don't know why I read threads like this, because the majority of the responses makes me feel so sad at how other humans care so little for animals
    I've been vegan for a few years now, because I decided to educate myself on the abuse and torture that goes on in dairy farms and slaughter houses (before their death), and it sucks to know that my actions will amount to so little because most of the population still views certain animals as being nothing more than 'our food'
    I speak for many people when I say "I don't give a ****", If we all stop eating meat then other food products get expensive as demand increases and supply remains relatively flat leading to more humans on the margins starving and while I would love to live on a planet where no one suffered when it comes down to choosing I much rather the animals die than humans.
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    (Original post by merlock)
    also our chickens eat chickens without a fuss and they're perfectly healthy (obviously we don't just feed them chicken)
    What? I thought they just pecked at each others' feathers! :eek:
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Photosynthesis is very different from respiration (what we do).
    Well plants do respire, and one could say they breathe too, since their stomata open and close according to how much they are respiring relative to rate of photosynthesis.
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    Well plants do respire, and one could say they breathe too, since their stomata open and close according to how much they are respiring relative to rate of photosynthesis.
    Yes Yes I got it all wrong!

    The great Chaotic Butterfly has fallen from grace. I flew to close to the sun (tried to talk about plants) and my wings have turned to ash.
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    If we never started eating meat we would just be another species of ape, probably never having made it out of Africa. And if we didn't acquire a taste for alcohol we would still be hunter gatherers.
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    (Original post by Mickey O'Neil)
    2. Food that veggies eat like Tofu has a terrible carbon footprint and is leaving forests completely obliterated - I hope you've educated yourself on these devastating affects too. Soy production is a leading cause of deforestation.
    I Googled that and it took all of two seconds to realise that this is a total myth. You should probably educate yourself before you assertively spread misinformation.

    "60-70 percent of deforestation in the Amazon results from cattle ranches while the rest mostly results from small-scale subsistence agriculture. Despite the widespread press attention, large-scale farming (i.e. soybeans) currently contributes relatively little to total deforestation in the Amazon. Most soybean cultivation takes place outside the rainforest in the neighboring cerrado grassland ecosystem and in areas that have already been cleared."
    http://www.mongabay.com/brazil.html

    And here is where most of the soy goes.

    Here's some more reading for you, you should probably do it:
    http://news.mongabay.com/2011/0306-soy_moratorium.html
    http://eatdrinkbetter.com/2012/01/11...deforestation/

    (Original post by xbellex)
    x
    Quoting you to say ignore this guy's post to you, as he's wrong.
 
 
 
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