Didn't study science A Levels? Then your grades aren't worth as much Watch

BlackpoolCraig
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#61
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#61
I think the Tories are on to something here.
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toddlers crossword
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#62
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(Original post by Chumbaniya)
I don't think there's any sense splitting the system on a points basis. Discerning universities already consider certain subjects to be good (maths, physics, history etc.) and others not so good (sociology, psychology etc.)
Why does everyone consider psychology some sort of 'mickey mouse' subject? I found it the most difficult of my a-levels and harder than english and history which i also studied, and my friend who does maths physics and psychology has said that psychology was by far her most difficult subject.

Especially for A2 you need to know all about the biological approach, which means studying the strucure of the brain and drug treatments for mental disorders, for example. Took more revision and made my brain ache more than any other subject!

It just annoys me that people have such a negative opinion of psychology a-level - when many do not even know what the subject involves.

In relation to the original topic, to repeat what other have said, UCAS points don't make that much of a difference when applying to ''Russell Group'' and similar universities anyway, I don't even have a clue how much grades are worth on the UCAS tariff!

I think universities liasing more with schools to teach people about science degrees and what they involve, and also career prospects, might help to make science degrees more attractive, especially if you catch people at about GCSE age before they have chosen their A-levels. Sort of useless after that because if you're not studying science subjects already, trying to persuade people to do science degrees will be a pretty futile exercise!

However at the end of the day people are always going to study the subjects they enjoy, and being lured into a degree which isn't what the person really wants to do by financial or UCAS points rewards, isn't going to do much good for the person themselves or the country!
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bleeper
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#63
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As someone who has taken sciences and humanities subjects for AS level. I can honestly say that sciences are far more demanding. This does not necesserily mean that arts subjects are easy it's just that if you have to do more work in one module of chemistry than a years worth of politics for the same grade then it's hard to rank a humanity as equal to a science. With a science you have to make sure that you do many exam papers and learn your stuff, however with humanities some light reading and good exam technique will get you far. It can depend on what your strengths are. I know tonnes of people that said **** it to sciences just because of the rep they had.
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creak
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#64
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Could people please stop with the personal stories of which subjects they found easy or hard, even if the comparison is made between sciences and arts. It's irrelevant. Different people have different strengths and therefore they will naturally gravitate to subjects that appeal to them more, they will put more effort in, they will have greater natural ability in particular lessons. Furthermore, aspects such as the quality of the teaching, the funding for the department and the student-teacher relationship will also play a large part in influencing your own personal view of which lessons are 'harder' than others.
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supercat
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#65
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Making science subjects worth more UCAS points strikes me as simply being a rubbish idea suggested to make the Tories look like they have a plan. I agree we need more scientists, but creating a divide between sciences and arts is simply not fair. People have different strengths. I got A*s in science and maths at GCSE, but the subjects never interested me, so I took the arts route. Why should people like me be punished for that? As mentioned earlier, what is needed is a way of making kids interested in science. I'm sure it can't be difficult; science is quite fascinating, but then that side of it isn't focused on in school.

Oh, and for those dismissing subjects such as Media Studies, according to AQA's provisional summer statistics, 13.1% received As in that, whereas 29.6% did in Physics. So stop generalising.
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_jackofdiamonds
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#66
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(Original post by supercat)
I got A*s in science and maths at GCSE, but the subjects never interested me, so I took the arts route. Why should people like me be punished for that?
Exactly!

What happened to the Tories' philosophy of 'every person should be free to persue their own happiness without hindrance from the government'?

Or are they all (as I suspected) the same as each other, and all this talk is just a ruse to nanny and cajole people as much as the Labour government they are meant to be the 'opposition' to?
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RK
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#67
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(Original post by supercat)
Making science subjects worth more UCAS points strikes me as simply being a rubbish idea suggested to make the Tories look like they have a plan. I agree we need more scientists, but creating a divide between sciences and arts is simply not fair. People have different strengths. I got A*s in science and maths at GCSE, but the subjects never interested me, so I took the arts route. Why should people like me be punished for that? As mentioned earlier, what is needed is a way of making kids interested in science. I'm sure it can't be difficult; science is quite fascinating, but then that side of it isn't focused on in school.
You are exactly the sort of person which needs to be persuaded to go down the science root.

You obviously have some sort of talent for maths and science, otherwise you wouldn't have got the A*'s at GCSE, yet you have chosen not to go down a science root.

Governments or who ever need to identify the people who this and ask them questions such as 'why did you choose not to study sciences?' or 'why did you chose the subjects you did?', 'what is it about science which doesn't interest you?', 'what would make it more interesting/enjoyable/fun?', 'what would have made you more likely to study sciences to A Level and beyond?

Collect enough information from such people from questions like that and hopefully a picture will start to develop of where science education is going wrong and some indications of how to increase people studying it to higher levels. You can just wave a magic wand to make science subjects worth more UCAS points and hope that solves the problem for you with no effort at all.

So, supercat, feel free to try and answer those questions above, so at least we can maybe start to see the reasons
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_jackofdiamonds
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#68
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The tories are off their wick if you ask me.
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Agent Smith
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#69
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(Original post by Roger Kirk)
That may be the case if the Tories ever get to bring in their most recent 'idea'.

They want to tackle the lack of science graduates by making science A Levels worth more points in UCAS applications than non-science subjects, maybe up to as much as 50% more points.

Something probably does need to be done to ensure we're producing more scientists, but this crazy idea the Tories have come up with is not tackling the problem properly. At best it's trying to bribe people into science degrees. At worst it's devaluing every non-science subject at A Level, making them second class. Splitting A Level subjects in a two tier system 'good subjects' and '****e subjects'.

I think it's just not no. They need to think up of better ways to tackle the problem. If this is the best the Tories can come up with with all their expertise then they are in serious trouble.

The story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4796937.stm
Be it on their own heads when Poets Laureate and Masters of the King's Musick have to be imported from Poland. And, of course, teachers, of which we are already terminally short. Linguists, although the Tories would probably solve that problem by speaking loudly and slowly in English. Economists. Historians. Politicians, unless they really want biochemists running the country. Authors, artists and musicians, or perhaps the Tories don't care about promoting British culture as much as people think.

The Tories really are horrifyingly insane sometimes.
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silent ninja
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#70
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(Original post by Chumbaniya)
Rather than trying to give superficial rewards such as extra UCAS points for studying science A levels, there should be a focus on making science degrees more appealing. If you want more science graduates, the best thing to do is to get kids interested in science when they're young, and then they'll be more inclined to carry on studying science of their own accord. If you did that, and also made people aware of how much better the career options are with science degrees than with many non-science degrees (excluding things like law), you'd get more people going into science, and they'd do it because they wanted to, not because the government offers them a hollow incentive to do so.
I completely agree. Science also has image issues, but the main problem is that it can be bloody uninteresting at GCSE. I could not stand my Physics classes as they were so utterly boring-- it so happens to be the science in most decline. I havent met a good physics teacher to date and i'm not the only one who feels this way.

Firstly, we NEED proper science and maths teachers. We're getting so many teachers who aren't properly qualified. Its a vicious circle because we get less science grads due to uninspiring teachers and a boring curriculum. Money could be an incentive but we need to revamp the whole curriculum form a younger age-- at the very least GCSE.
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Agent Smith
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#71
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Just to add: with Creationism already beginning to pollute the British education system as well, this legislation will of course mean that the spreaders of nonsense earn more intellectual respect than those, such as historians, who debunk it for a living.
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SuperhansFavouriteAlsatian
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#72
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This is pointless. People aren't going to do a science degree if they don't want to, and giving them more UCAS points for it just makes it easier to get on, not more desirable to study.

Although Roger, as an unnofficial representative for Labour, is about to implode under the weight of the irony he expelled by saying all things Tory "are either pointless or lacking any sort of substance."
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SuperhansFavouriteAlsatian
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#73
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(Original post by silent ninja)
I completely agree. Science also has image issues, but the main problem is that it can be bloody uninteresting at GCSE. I could not stand my Physics classes as they were so utterly boring-- it so happens to be the science in most decline. I havent met a good physics teacher to date and i'm not the only one who feels this way.
This is entirely true. My (old) schools physics department was phenominal - the teachers made it really genuinely interesting (in fact our school was voted best physics school in the country by Scholastic, though I don't know how they arrived at that conclusion) and as a result physics A-Level was the most taken subject out of any of them. We have a ****-tonne of people going off to do physics degrees now.

Having indentified the problem, however, solving it will be incredibly difficult.
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Agent Smith
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Under these laws, then, a mix-and match soul who intends to do Music but supplements that with Biology and Chemistry A-levels will be easily able to beat a more Arts-focused individual who takes Music, English and History.

That's not merely wildly illogical and unfair. It qualifies for "Bat F**k Insane".
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shady lane
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#75
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Does having more science graduates from mediocre universities help this problem? No offense, but I've seen some people on TSR doing degrees in chemistry or math with Cs at A-Level. Somehow I'm not sure they're going to necessarily be the leading scientists and engineers for the country.
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Apagg
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#76
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maths
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shady lane
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#77
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(Original post by Apagg)
maths
MATH

I'm American. Deal with it.
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Apagg
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#78
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(Original post by love2learn7)
you talk quite a large quantity of nonsense

for a start- name some famous poets from the late 20th and early 21st century????

how would we lose out with no artists???

do you really think sciences would be swamped by making them worth more in tariff points that humanities? Stop taking it to the extreme!

The tories are having to lie about what they actually probably want to do just to appeal to the millions of plebs that are in the uk who like labour control.
John Betjeman and Ted Hughes. Get some culture please.

AS was pointing out that if the policy has the effect the Tories want it to have, it'll be detrimental to the arts.
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Apagg
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(Original post by shady lane)
MATH

I'm American. Deal with it.
I'm not. Deal with it.
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Apagg
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#80
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(Original post by love2learn7)
Yup- too many universities, too many pointless degrees, too many pointless a levels.

Have only traditional a levels
Have only about 30-40 universities, perhaps 50 (there are about 106).
Use old a level syllabuses and exam question-styles
Does it not occur to you that perhaps the old system was revised for a reason?
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