Do some universities give out too many firsts? Watch

stefl14
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#61
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(Original post by Smaug123)
I'd say this is wrong - almost nobody doesn't get a third at Cambridge maths.
Oops! I see what you did there. Still, it goes to prove my point!
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Smaug123
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(Original post by stefl14)
Oops! I see what you did there. Still, it goes to prove my point!
Yes, I do see what you mean the 30% first rate is quite high, anyway, although I am definitely not complaining because I just barely squeaked into a first this year.
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stefl14
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(Original post by Unruly Marmite)
I was merely joining in with the anecdotes. As it happens I can't really compare my course since most universities don't offer it I think, but I do get tired of some people on TSR who seem to believe that any university not I the Russell group is worthless.
Anybody who takes such an extreme opinion is indeed annoying. However, so are the people who (not accusing you) constantly try to convince others that all universities and the degrees they offer are equal in quality.
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TolerantBeing
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(Original post by Saliency)
I think some of you are forgetting they are externally marked and some courses like biomed are accredited so have to meet certain expectations.
I think its more course dependent rather than uni dependent in a lot of cases. Although, im not disputing the fact that the top 10 unis are probably more content heavy.


I go to an average ranked plate glass uni and my lecturers were actually told by external boards they were including too much content, that they had to reduce it and go further into detail with certain parts instead of trying to include everything.

A lot of lower ranked unis aren't accredited. Externally marked? :confused:
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stefl14
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(Original post by Smaug123)
Yes, I do see what you mean the 30% first rate is quite high, anyway, although I am definitely not complaining because I just barely squeaked into a first this year.
Well done. Are you a third year? I agree that the first rate is quite high. I actually study economics where the first rate is usually about 25% which is quite high too. But I'm not complaining as I just squeaked in too!
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Unruly Marmite
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(Original post by stefl14)
Anybody who takes such an extreme opinion is indeed annoying. However, so are the people who (not accusing you) constantly try to convince others that all universities and the degrees they offer are equal in quality.
Yeah, that's true. I wouldn't expect a degree in Maths from NTU to be the equal of a Cambridge Maths degree, but some people seem unable to realise that Oxbridge is not best at every degree, and don't even offer some.
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TolerantBeing
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(Original post by Kirboz)
Outside of law and banking, they really don't. I have never been questioned on my alma mater throughout the course of applying for jobs - just my degree classification.

This takes the mick. Why do I have to deal with a harder course if it makes no difference... Complete bull****.
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silentshadows
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Clearly, there are some places that will be better than others and as a consequence of this people that may get a first at some unis may struggle to get the same at others.

IMO, standardisation isn't the problem because the main reason people struggle to get into to high ranking unis is because they know that the quality of teaching is better there (perhaps there may be some people who are focused on the prestige of a name of a unj, but I would say these people are in the minority.) Differing proportions of firsts is more of an inherent consequence of people having differing abilities than anything else.
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TheAlchemistt
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Its true to be honest, Lower rank universitys and some ex polys make it so much easier to obtain 2.1's or firsts.
The worse thing is some employers will hire someone with a higher grade from a lower rank university.
I know people who haven't done great at alevels (barely passed) and are obtaining 1sts at ex polys which is great for them as there doing really well but its not necessarily fair.
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Saliency
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(Original post by TolerantBeing)
A lot of lower ranked unis aren't accredited. Externally marked? :confused:
I was just giving an example and stating that there is some sort of standard for some subjects despite the university, specifically nursing, biomed and medicine. Obviously non accredited are not as stringent in the requirements of what the students should know.
Basically all I was suggesting was that when people on here are comparing grades they have to be comparing the same subject.

I meant that exams are remarked by people from other institutions to ensure the quality of marking and the questions are at a certain standard.
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TolerantBeing
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
@OP, just because someone is not ****ting out A* in everything at A-level does not mean they are stupid or that they can not improve in their subject of choice at uni.


I know which of my family/ friends are more academically capable/ hard working. And whether you like it or not, in most cases A-level performance is a fair indicator of capability.
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Acidy
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(Original post by Advice Guru)
You would have thought if ex poly's had less academically able people they would struggle to get a first at the ex poly even with the weaker course.

Unis need more regulations, just like A Levels.
Standardise 1st and 2nd year university courses.
And sap out any originality/creativity of students? They've been harassed by standardisation for 10 years by the time they attend university.
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ClickItBack
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(Original post by Smaug123)
No, no - I said "almost nobody doesn't get a third", not "almost nobody gets a third"
To be fair they do kick out/'suggest' a change of course for people who are really struggling with the course. I'd guesstimate some 15%-20% of first year mathmos don't make it to third year - would you agree with that?
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Sheldor
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(Original post by Kirboz)
I didn't mention Oxbridge. I was implying that people from Southern counties are more likely to be snobbish towards certain Northern institutions (which is completely true).

Edit: One of the problems is that the perception of 'prestige' is so bloody fickle. No one even knows why they look down on certain places, regardless of location (e.g. Reading), they just do.
Aren't lots of northern unis (Durham, Nottingham, Manchester) full of southern people?

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Acrostics
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(Original post by TolerantBeing)
but I can't help but wonder whether all these people should really have gotten Firsts.


I largely agree with what you are saying here. A really good post by the way. I was speaking to my mum a few months ago on this too.

Businesses also take into account the university which you went to to get your degree. My own concerns in that respects were resolved in this sense having spoken to someone in an important position. If I were to apply to a post of a Senior Director in an organisation and one candidate obtained a first having graduated from an Open University degree and I had attended Kings and achieved a 2:1, I have been personally told that they are aware of 'over-qualification.' Businesses do do their homework when employing people as they are paying them after all.


I just see it as highly unlikely that I would have lost out on the job on this basis.

Equally, you have to understand that the skills which a person offers may be significantly differing and perhaps more benificial if they attended a pa . I actually know someone who attended UWL and they actually have more practical knowledge, suited to the field of work that they are in in comparison to someone who attended Durham. How an individual is able to fulfil the position in a job, in comparison tp
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Smaug123
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(Original post by ClickItBack)
To be fair they do kick out/'suggest' a change of course for people who are really struggling with the course. I'd guesstimate some 15%-20% of first year mathmos don't make it to third year - would you agree with that?
Not sure, to be honest - in the year above me (which has just finished the third year) I think approx 15% didn't make it from my college.

(Original post by stefl14)
Well done. Are you a third year? I agree that the first rate is quite high. I actually study economics where the first rate is usually about 25% which is quite high too. But I'm not complaining as I just squeaked in too!
Thanks - same to you! No, I'm going into my third year now. Hopefully I can prevent the same decline in my mark since the first year from happening again this year… (that or assassinating the Trinmos, I suppose.)
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Georgie_M
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(Original post by TolerantBeing)
A lot of lower ranked unis aren't accredited. Externally marked? :confused:
Yes all universities have work second marked by another university. I just completed my degree at UWE and 25% of our work from final year is second marked by Bristol university. In fact three years in a row my course have been told they mark too harshly.

Your bitterness and the whole red brick elitism is extremely frustrating. I achieved a first (one of only 3 on my 200 strong course) and I worked extremely hard for it. I was an A grade alevel student who had to attend UWE due to personal circumstances. Of course I think there are many variables and it is easier to get a first at my uni (mostly due to how they work out the classification) - however I am intelligent and I worked hard stop putting people down who went to ex-polys!!
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james22
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(Original post by Georgie_M)
Yes all universities have work second marked by another university. I just completed my degree at UWE and 25% of our work from final year is second marked by Bristol university. In fact three years in a row my course have been told they mark too harshly.

Your bitterness and the whole red brick elitism is extremely frustrating. I achieved a first (one of only 3 on my 200 strong course) and I worked extremely hard for it. I was an A grade alevel student who had to attend UWE due to personal circumstances. Of course I think there are many variables and it is easier to get a first at my uni (mostly due to how they work out the classification) - however I am intelligent and I worked hard stop putting people down who went to ex-polys!!
Conversly though (not saying you particularly have done this), don't try to say that all degrees are the same. Some universities are significantly harder than others and it puts down people who work hard at the harder degrees.
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King Leonidas
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Is your first name John and your last name Smiths?
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Georgie_M
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(Original post by james22)
Conversly though (not saying you particularly have done this), don't try to say that all degrees are the same. Some universities are significantly harder than others.
I do definitely agree, I also think a significant amount is course dependant. I was just jumping on the anecdotal bandwagon - on my course the only individuals who achieved firsts were those who achieved highly in their alevels also, they do not hand them out like sweets (as someone said).
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