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    Regardless of which side of the discussion you find yourself on, if you feel angry or upset take a moment to enjoy this video of a snake opening a door.
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    (Original post by PZ36)
    Dangerous work is social attributed as being men's work not because men should be placed in harms way, but because of the false idea that women would not be able to complete the harder physically stressful work associated with fields such as agriculture. Also why would feminist groups need to push for women to be in agriculture when the number of women in agriculture is already growing?
    http://www.fwi.co.uk/articles/11/01/...ng-careers.htm

    In regrades to male suicide. The gender-based bias is not often studied to the extent it should be, it would be incredibly insensitive of me to write off the male suicide trend as being only influenced by gender inequality. There are a lot of factors at play in regrades this trend and I am no expert on the phenomenon.
    So really what you have highlighted is that we don't need feminism in employment choices because women can make their own choice quite freely without needing legislation put in place to give them an advantage over their male counterpart.

    You said you could show me the misogynistic stem of men's issues. Suicide is a pretty big issue.

    Another issue that you may be able to shed some light on to, how is it misogynistic that there are more males homeless or why males are more likely to abuse drugs and alcohol?
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    False rape cases can range from very low to very high, depending on the source, definitions used, and whether confirmed cases of false allegations are being compared to confirmed cases of rape or merely the sum of rape allegations made (or even estimates of total rape). False rape statistics can range from as low as 1% of cases to 50% and above.



    In most cases, women are indeed the majority of sexual partner violence victims (although, the US CDC actually places men in the majority here). However, men are far more likely to be the victims of physical abuse or assault of any kind. Statistically, you are far safer being a woman than a man with regards to most violent crime.
    In regrades to violent crime you are correct, and I may have forgotten myself and I'm sorry for jumping the gun. I don't want to make men out as violent monsters and it is true that often they are the victims of violent crime. Yet I really do question what is going with men statistically that make them more likely to commit a violent crime against others in general.
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    So really what you have highlighted is that we don't need feminism in employment choices because women can make their own choice quite freely without needing legislation put in place to give them an advantage over their male counterpart.

    You said you could show me the misogynistic stem of men's issues. Suicide is a pretty big issue.

    Another issue that you may be able to shed some light on to, how is it misogynistic that there are more males homeless or why males are more likely to abuse drugs and alcohol?
    In retrospect my claim of being able to expose the misogynistic stem of male problems was stupid and I apologize for disregarding men's problems in such a way. However, I do truly believe feminism is still a relevant social and political influence for people across generations and that there is a lot of work that can still be done in regrades to gender equality. For women and men. You don't have to agree with me, and you aren't good or bad if you don't. I'm sorry for being rude.
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    (Original post by PZ36)
    In regrades to violent crime you are correct, and I may have forgotten myself and I'm sorry for jumping the gun. I don't want to make men out as violent monsters and it is true that often they are the victims of violent crime. Yet I really do question what is going with men statistically that make them more likely to commit a violent crime against others in general.
    Men have more testosterone in their bodies, which is linked with aggressive behaviour.
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    (Original post by PZ36)
    In retrospect my claim of being able to expose the misogynistic stem of male problems was stupid and I apologize for disregarding men's problems in such a way. However, I do truly believe feminism is still a relevant social and political influence for people across generations and that there is a lot of work that can still be done in regrades to gender equality. For women and men. You don't have to agree with me, and you aren't good or bad if you don't. I'm sorry for being rude.
    That is fine, I just wanted to test your bold claim. There is still a lot to do for both genders, however it needs to be done in the right way and to focus on issues that really matter. The ideology of feminism has a place in society, but it needs to be used in the right way. Parts of feminism have become worryingly radicalised to a point where some members have expressed views on reducing the male population to benefits the female population. It is quite threatening that these sort of people can hide behind a veil of feminism.
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    Men have more testosterone in their bodies, which is linked with aggressive behaviour.
    Although hormonal levels do effect aggression that is never used as a viable excuse to commit a violent act. If men are biologically prone to being more aggressive and unstable then why isn't society doing more to prevent men from committing violent acts?
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    That is fine, I just wanted to test your bold claim. There is still a lot to do for both genders, however it needs to be done in the right way and to focus on issues that really matter. The ideology of feminism has a place in society, but it needs to be used in the right way. Parts of feminism have become worryingly radicalised to a point where some members have expressed views on reducing the male population to benefits the female population. It is quite threatening that these sort of people can hide behind a veil of feminism.
    You are right and I should have known better. My beef is never with men it's with gender inequality. Feminism is like any other human system and should be looked at critically. Maybe the argument starts from a conflict of interest? It can difficult to gauge what is or isn't of most importance in respect what issues a feminists might tackle.
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    (Original post by PZ36)
    Although hormonal levels do effect aggression that is never used as a viable excuse to commit a violent act. If men are biologically prone to being more aggressive and unstable then why isn't society doing more to prevent men from committing violent acts?
    Short of forced hormonal treatments -- which would be a huge breach of human rights -- I don't see any options. And, as you said, hormones alone are not the sole reason for committing violent crimes, but they are a known contributing factor in the aggressive and disruptive behaviour in many animal species nonetheless.
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    (Original post by PZ36)
    Why do you think women are seen as frail and innocent? It's not from feminism if that is what you are thinking. It's archaic stereotypes that even to this day cling to popular culture, popular culture like the kind you find in mainstream media. Also I just love how you're trying to convince me the false rape accusations are even on the same level as ACTUAL RAPE. The number of false rape accusations are insanely low compared to actual cases of reported sexual assault. And although men are more likely to be the victims of verbal abuse by women it still doesn't change the fact that men are still overwhelmingly the perpetrators of violent crime against women on statistical basis only. If you think feminism no longer has any bases in western society you've never looked at the numbers.
    I have no idea why I'm arguing with you. It's just like banging my head against a brick wall.

    1. I never said that. Obviously it's a pre-existing stereotype. I am aware that this wasn't a construct of feminism.

    2. False rape accusations are horrendous. They will always be taken seriously meaning that that person will have to go through court. First of all, he could actually be put in prison and found guilty (wrongly). Secondly, his life will be ruined because people will always raise questions over whether or not he is a rapist. All a woman has got to do is say 'He raped me' and a man's life as he knows it will be over once it goes to court. Obviously they are not the same as rape, but the effect it has on someone is similar IMO. Plus you compared false rape accusations to sexual assault, not rape. We know how easy it is for someone to lie about it, so the number of genuine rapes could even be overrepresented by women lying about it. Which doesn't just hurt men, it hurts women who have genuinely been raped.

    3.'On a statistical basis only'. Exactly. I know from personal experience that men are reluctant to report 'violent assaults' from their partners for fear of being ridiculed. The vast majority of domestic violence I've experienced and heard of have all involved male victims. You clearly have this clouded opinion of what the majority of men are like, this is why feminism is outdated. A minority will always have a view that differs to yours. But that's exactly what it is.

    4. I have looked at the numbers, I have studied them as university. But what I am telling you is that inequality does not just apply to women. Men encounter sexism on a daily basis as well as women but yet again, the numbers are over-represented in women's favour. Things have progressed enormously over the past 60 years and it's unlikely that they will ever be perfect, but a lot of feminism in the present day is irrelevant.
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    (Original post by PZ36)
    You are right and I should have known better. My beef is never with men it's with gender inequality. Feminism is like any other human system and should be looked at critically. Maybe the argument starts from a conflict of interest? It can difficult to gauge what is or isn't of most importance in respect what issues a feminists might tackle.
    For western feminism I feel that the more important issue should be based around legal equality and employment. Rights should not be considered a major issue as women have the same rights as men. We all have the same basic rights and we have pretty much the same social rights. However there are major discrepancies in the legal system and its attitudes towards gender and obviously employment. Such as pay and equal rights within the workplace. However who is employed in each sector should not come up as a major issue as it is down to choice. If women want to become an engineer, they can and there actually isn't anything stopping them. If they want to be a nurse then fine that is what they want to do. This idea we should try and get more of each gender to do different things is ridiculous. Let people decide what they want to do, which we have already allowed (other than military positions which is due to safety concerns).
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    (Original post by Michael!)
    I have no idea why I'm arguing with you. It's just like banging my head against a brick wall.

    1. I never said that. Obviously it's a pre-existing stereotype. I am aware that this wasn't a construct of feminism.

    2. False rape accusations are horrendous. They will always be taken seriously meaning that that person will have to go through court. First of all, he could actually be put in prison and found guilty (wrongly). Secondly, his life will be ruined because people will always raise questions over whether or not he is a rapist. All a woman has got to do is say 'He raped me' and a man's life as he knows it will be over once it goes to court. Obviously they are not the same as rape, but the effect it has on someone is similar IMO. Plus you compared false rape accusations to sexual assault, not rape. We know how easy it is for someone to lie about it, so the number of genuine rapes could even be overrepresented by women lying about it. Which doesn't just hurt men, it hurts women who have genuinely been raped.

    3.'On a statistical basis only'. Exactly. I know from personal experience that men are reluctant to report 'violent assaults' from their partners for fear of being ridiculed. The vast majority of domestic violence I've experienced and heard of have all involved male victims. You clearly have this clouded opinion of what the majority of men are like, this is why feminism is outdated. A minority will always have a view that differs to yours. But that's exactly what it is.

    4. I have looked at the numbers, I have studied them as university. But what I am telling you is that inequality does not just apply to women. Men encounter sexism on a daily basis as well as women but yet again, the numbers are over-represented in women's favour. Things have progressed enormously over the past 60 years and it's unlikely that they will ever be perfect, but a lot of feminism in the present day is irrelevant.
    If arguing with me is making you upset then stop. In fact I'll just go ahead and officially withdraw from the conversation. Congratulations! You won the argument! You'll receive your award in the mail in 2-6 business days.
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    (Original post by PZ36)
    If arguing with me is making you upset then stop. In fact I'll just go ahead and officially withdraw from the conversation. Congratulations! You won the argument! You'll receive your award in the mail in 2-6 business days.
    I'm not trying to get one up on you. I'm merely stating that gender inequality does exist but it applies to men as well as women.
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    Short of forced hormonal treatments -- which would be a huge breach of human rights -- I don't see any options. And, as you said, hormones alone are not the sole reason for committing violent crimes, but they are a known contributing factor in the aggressive and disruptive behaviour in many animal species nonetheless.
    But you can admit there are ways to teach young men to cope with aggression in a safe non-invasive way. Men aren't often allowed to experience the full range of their emotions without facing serious social retribution from their peers. This often stems from the belief that it would be unmanly to allow a certain level of expression. Some of the characteristic aggression we often attribute to men, might be the result of repression.
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    (Original post by Michael!)
    I'm not trying to get one up on you. I'm merely stating that gender inequality does exist but it applies to men as well as women.
    And you wouldn't be wrong. I'm not saying gender inequality doesn't affect men or that men don't face negativity based on gender, but I feel less like you are trying to discuss these issues and more like an attack on my moral views. Yes, I'm a feminists but I'm not the enemy. I don't want anyone to suffer.
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    I can always remember watchign this you tube video with one of these personalities going on why she was a feminist and not one of these radicals....

    She started with "I'm not one of the radicals with armpit hair who hates all men"..... Later on she showed off her armpit hair and was like "hell why should I have to shave my armpits"..... was kinda disgusting tbh.
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    For western feminism I feel that the more important issue should be based around legal equality and employment. Rights should not be considered a major issue as women have the same rights as men. We all have the same basic rights and we have pretty much the same social rights. However there are major discrepancies in the legal system and its attitudes towards gender and obviously employment. Such as pay and equal rights within the workplace. However who is employed in each sector should not come up as a major issue as it is down to choice. If women want to become an engineer, they can and there actually isn't anything stopping them. If they want to be a nurse then fine that is what they want to do. This idea we should try and get more of each gender to do different things is ridiculous. Let people decide what they want to do, which we have already allowed (other than military positions which is due to safety concerns).
    You see I can defiantly agree with many of those points, but I also feel there is a social aspect to feminism that is often overlooked. A lot of our views of gender and equality are influenced by the attitudes we are exposed to through things like media and cultural expectation. As a feminists I feel part of problem can stem from these places and should be critically looked at.
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    (Original post by PZ36)
    But you can admit there are ways to teach young men to cope with aggression in a safe non-invasive way. Men aren't often allowed to experience the full range of their emotions without facing serious social retribution from their peers. This often stems from the belief that it would be unmanly to allow a certain level of expression. Some of the characteristic aggression we often attribute to men, might be the result of repression.
    This is no doubt an important issue, and there are many different solutions that could be tested for efficacy: whether repression is harmful, for example, whether there need to be more safe outlets for aggression (via contact sports, say), etc.

    But why try and force this to be viewed through the lens of 'misogyny', 'patriarchy', or all the other buzzwords? Why not acknowledge it as a problem in and of itself and not, as feminism does, create some nebulous patchwork of 'issues' that it keeps adding to to stay relevant? Let's face it - if you're being honest with yourself, you'll admit that the actual % of self-labelled feminists who would spend as much time working on this (higher prevalence) issue of male-on-male violence as opposed to, say, protesting about page 3 is minimal. This is why the claim that feminism is a gender egalitarian movement is demonstrably not true in practice: it ignores higher prevalence and higher harm male or gender-neutral issues in lieu of female specific issues.

    The sooner feminism dissolves as an ideology to separate men from women and we start considering issues of import individually without first verifying the gender of those who are the main sufferer, the better.
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    I have heard it said by an ex-feminist that....

    On some issues men have it good and women not so good,
    On other issues women have it good and men not so good!

    In most areas in the west there is legislation in place regarding discrimination and there are laws relating to domestic violence etc. If we are getting to the point in the west that we are now talking about social attitudes then it is time to realise there is no huge overall disparity in the way each gender is treated. There are areas regarding equality that could be addressed on both sides. Therefore there really is not a place IMO for a movement pushing the grievances of one gender and causing division.

    We should be looking out for each other and challenging discrimination as humans, not just when it affects one gender or group. I really do not understand why this is such a hard position for society to adopt.

    I am originally from Glasgow and read the other day that.. "Glasgow is to become a 'White Ribbon' city and not condone domestic violence against women". I mean WTF seriously??? Would it be so hard to just say that Glasgow is will not condone domestic violence (full stop). There are kids who suffer from domestic violence and whether it is 20% of males who are affected or 50% do we have absolutely zero compassion for them? By proxy they are being told their situation is not a serious issue. In fact it is so little an issue we are going to completely overlook you and just focus on domestic violence against this other more important group, even though it would be easier and send a more powerful message to just not condone domestic violence against anyone.
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    (Original post by benzos)
    Anyone else seen this? Getting a bit dumb and I'm not talking about legit feminists like the ones who started it for equal rights, equal pay, etc. I'm talking about some of the newer batch of uneducated teens who just want domination. These ads and videos about it everywhere are cringy.
    Are you talking about the "like a girl" video? That video was so stupid. :facepalm:
 
 
 
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