Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Ways in which men are oppressed in the UK. Watch

    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anonymouspie227)
    I'm an advocate of equality personally.

    What I do hate, is how men are told to not show feelings. I think that's awful. If you're sad please just don't bury it. I've met people who just seem dead because they won't show any emotion and It's horrible.
    I used to know an American woman online on some social network who would repeatedly say how unattractive tears are on a man, and how she couldn't respect a man who wasn't stoical. She used to use shaming liberally to this effect, and I noticed how men would go out of their way to avoid being perceived as a "pussy" by her. She would constantly use words like "pussy" and "******" to describe men she didn't like. As well as claiming to be socially liberated, she was also a self-proclaimed Social Darwinist who only respected "the strong" and had enormous contempt for "the weak", and in her mind placed "unmanly" men in the latter category and, in turn, only respected men who were professionally, socially and sexually successful. It seems I was the only one in that social circle to perceive how women like her wielded the power and the men were all bowing to social pressure.

    She then accused me of being effeminate and a "pussy", and claimed that showing emotion was rightfully a female prerogative. In return I called her the c-word, which she said was totally unacceptable. Erm, what's the difference exactly? And why shouldn't I drop the "c-bomb" on an obnoxious woman like that who pushes such gender roles on myself which I vehemently reject? More to the point, what gives her the right to switch from a stance of social liberation to being "all about the rules" when it suits her? Of course, like many women, her response was to resort to back-talk and other underhanded forms of aggression.

    One thing I learned: A woman who expects men to live up to the "stoical" ideal, and shames them into doing so, is basically doing so in order that she doesn't have to show any empathy and compassion. As such, that kind of woman could only respect a man who is like Teflon, since any other kind of man would place expectations on her of having to display empathy and compassion which she happens to completely lack.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Doctor_Einstein)
    The fact they aren't forced to take on dangerous jobs doesn't mean their choice wasn't highly influenced by societal pressures that do not apply to women.

    Most men do not choose these dangerous jobs to fulfill their dream career, but rather many sociological factors that are in play have ultimately driven them to these dangerous jobs - factors that evidently do not apply to women.

    But if I accept your argument, it can be applied to many feminist arguments also. The government doesn't force women to look after children instead of working. Women aren't forced to not take up science careers etc.

    Now with regards to male suicide, it is either a result of biology or a result of society. So you are suggesting it is a result of biology - yet most feminists claim that the brains of men and women are the same biologically. I'm not saying you take this feminist view, but I am typing this out for the feminists who do - they must accept that society causes high male suicide rates.
    You're comment on jobs is fine; I only consider the whole "women in the kitchen thing" oppression when they HAVE to which isn't the case in the UK or when they aren't hired because they're women which is these days exceedingly rare to a point where I wouldn't class it an issue. I don't think men being expecting to be better suited to tougher jobs oppression in the same way I don't think women being better suited to more nurturing jobs oppression. To me they're just unavoidable stereotypes.

    The suicide rate is an iffy topic which I don't know enough about to make a proper comment; I just don't believe it's society's fault. All I can really offer is that even as a feminist I don't believe women and men are biologically the same. Not to say either gender is all round stronger but they're both different.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by EllieC130)
    The suicide rate is an iffy topic which I don't know enough about to make a proper comment; I just don't believe it's society's fault. All I can really offer is that even as a feminist I don't believe women and men are biologically the same. Not to say either gender is all round stronger but they're both different.
    The suicide issue stems for the "man up" culture which forces men not to seek help with their problems and to hide it from society, otherwise they will face ridicule. Women are actively encouraged to talk about their emotions and it is socially acceptable for a women to show negative emotions in public. Whereas for men it is frowned upon and sometimes actively dismissed.

    It is the fault of society at large, which is why we see such high suicide rates in men.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    The suicide issue stems for the "man up" culture which forces men not to seek help with their problems and to hide it from society, otherwise they will face ridicule. Women are actively encouraged to talk about their emotions and it is socially acceptable for a women to show negative emotions in public. Whereas for men it is frowned upon and sometimes actively dismissed.

    It is the fault of society at large, which is why we see such high suicide rates in men.
    Well that is something we will have to agree to disagree on.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by EllieC130)
    Well that is something we will have to agree to disagree on.
    What are we disagreeing on the whole concept or just part of it?

    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    laughing at all these whiney white men hahaha

    actual get a grip and smash the patriarchy
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    What are we disagreeing on the whole concept or just part of it?

    In short I think the whole "man up" culture, while a possible partial cause, is not fully to blame for the number of male suicides.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by andypee)
    laughing at all these whiney white men hahaha

    actual get a grip and smash the patriarchy
    What patriarchy?
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    What patriarchy?
    howlin'

    do your research mate
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by imtelling)
    13: Men are told they are losers and sexually deficient if they dare speak up against the oppression which effects them.
    Think the "Are all whiny threads from men about women due to lack of sex?" thread kind of proves this point....
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by andypee)
    howlin'

    do your research mate
    There is no such thing. I have done my research.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Oh, I thought this thread disappeared.

    I would not call it 'oppression'. I feel there are areas in society where males are $%^& on areas where females are $%%& on and a non gender specific movement advocating equality of treatment for everyone regardless of gender, race, age etc is needed.

    Having said that spending on health care and research lags woefully behind for males when compared to females in the UK.

    http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/44858/

    http://www.parity-uk.org/mens_health.php
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    Men aren't 'oppressed' in the UK, discriminated against in certain areas, yes.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by markyb76)
    Oh, I thought this thread disappeared.
    It did. Maybe their are some non-bias mods after all
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    In what way is education focused on female strengths (considering boys are considered to do better at exams, which are the main assessment throughout education)? And the ADHD thing is bull****, it is a world away from being boisterous. Aside from that, agree with most of the other points.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    As I've said in many feminist threads.

    - Women are screwed over in certain situations

    - Men are screwed over in different situations.

    Men and women both face inequalities neither is oppressed, the sooner that both sides of this ridiculous never ending argument understand this the sooner we can actually achieve proper equality.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by blue n white army)
    As I've said in many feminist threads.

    - Women are screwed over in certain situations

    - Men are screwed over in different situations.

    Men and women both face inequalities neither is oppressed, the sooner that both sides of this ridiculous never ending argument understand this the sooner we can actually achieve proper equality.
    I have to agree with you there on all points.
    • PS Helper
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by imtelling)
    .

    9: Divorce settlements are heavily discriminatory against men. Men are routinely ordered to hand over huge sums of their personal wealth, even to blatant gold diggers. ( see the Paul Mcarthy/Heather Mills settlement )

    Divorce settlements are about who has the better brief in most cases, it's a persuasion game. Also, it's not your personal wealth, when you marry you agree, knowingly or not, that your assets are pooled.

    Child custody is more difficult, but you can win a child custody case for the father even where the mother previously had more contact. I know, I just won my uncle a residency order, and got more or less what he wanted on contact.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by imtelling)
    Lets start with child custody:

    Men are tremendously discriminated against in family courts.
    Because winning single parenthood is such a privilege, they're not one of the most impoverished groups or anything.

    Most men who apply for custody get it, the majority of cases are settle out of court meaning the majority of men don't even apply for custody, so why aren't most men applying for custody? Most custody in courts is given to whom spends the most time with the child before the spilt, which is mostly mothers.


    are also forced to pay punitive costs to support the children they are not allowed to see
    Child support is gender neutral, if the man has custody the woman is also required to pay.

    -- payments which, a lot of the time at least, will be squandered on the mothers latest hair do or girls holiday away to Magaluf.
    Source? Because single parenthood is such a lavished lifestyle right...:rolleyes:

    The fact you make men's rights issues in to a troll thread in an effort to receive virtual female attention speaks volumes to the inherrent lack of sincerity in this "movement".

    1: Child custody heavily biased in favour of women.
    Already explained, most fathers receive custody when apply, most cases are settled outside of court.

    2: No support for male victims of domestic violence.
    https://www.thecalmzone.net/

    The director of which is a feminist.

    http://www.mensadviceline.org.uk/mens_advice.php.html

    http://www.ncdv.org.uk/male-domestic...wareness-week/

    http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/abuse/Pag...ainst-men.aspx

    http://refuge.org.uk/get-help-now/help-for-men/



    3: Discrimination in prison system, with men more likely to be jailed and serve longer sentences.
    Class and race issues also a factor in sentences.
    The law is worded gender neutrally the bias happens within the courts due to women being seen as weak and taken less seriously.


    4: 84% of all homeless people are men.
    Source? homelessness is a lot more gender equal than a lot of people present it. The primary causes of homelessness– poverty, lack of affordable housing, unemployment– affect everyone, regardless of gender. A large percentage of the increase in homeless families is probably caused by the recession: unemployment and lack of affordable housing were the two most commonly cited causes of the increase in homeless families. Third, it is important to note that there may be reasons why women are more likely to be housed than men that still don’t mean the women are in a particularly good situation. For instance, women are more likely to participate in survival sex in exchange for housing. “Survival sex or homelessness,” however, is one of those dilemmas that really leaves no one in a particularly good situation. - See more at: http://goodmenproject.com/good-feed-....Pgt2wbd3.dpuf

    5: Men more likely to commit suicide than women.
    Succeed at it, women attempt is in equal numbers.

    6: 96% of work related fatalities are men.
    Support labours unions and worker rights, and feminists work to allow women in to dangerous places.

    7: Being told to 'man up' and not complain when they dare to speak up about anti-male discrimination.
    Gender roles should be fought against and are. The west gender roles have gotten way more liberal thanks to those challenging these notions.

    8: Men have no anonymity if they are accused of rape, and so false rape allegations routinely ruin mens lives and careers.
    Do women? Do they have anonymity of any other crime. And given how small false allegations are, that would result in many people effected.

    9: Divorce settlements are heavily discriminatory against men.
    Nope. Again, the law is gender neutral. The one with most loses but both have the option of having a pre nup available which as an adult you make the choice not to take, how about some personal responsibility?

    Fiona Wood, a partner in family law at Pannone – which handles almost 400 divorces a year – said many well-paid female clients feel their husbands are being given an unfair share of the assets.
    Couples' assets at the end of a marriage are divided on the basis of equality with their various needs taken into account.
    Often the partner with the smaller salary can end up with a larger share of the equity of their home because they are judged to be less able to get a mortgage to buy somewhere new to live.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/sex...n-divorce.html

    10: Men are seen as expendable by society; during the First World War, for example, feminists tried to shame men into joining the army by calling them cowards. Google the 'white feather movement'
    You mean that movement that was founded by a man who nowhere identified as a feminist? It’s worth pointing out that at the start of WWI, people of all political stripes and in all the countries involved were pretty gung-ho for the war. Even the big socialist parties of the day quickly forgot their pledges of international solidarity in favor of supporting their national war efforts.So where do the evil feminists come in? Well, a couple of the most famous British suffragettes signed onto the White Feather crusade: Emmeline and Christabel Pankhurst. And yes, they supported compulsory national service — though they supported it for both men and women: men would go to war, while women would be required to work in factories.
    Of course, the Order of the White Feather didn’t represent all feminists at the time. Indeed, it didn’t even represent all the Pankhursts: Christabel’s sisters Sylvia and Adela were pacifists.
    it’s highly misleading to present the story of the Order of the White Feather as “proof” that feminists are warmongering all-male-draft-lovers. As a quick visit to Google will demonstrate, feminism has a long history of antiwar activism, dating back to the 19th century — when feminists first organized Mother’s Day as a protest of war.
    11: Education system is female centric; focusing on teaching methods which cater to female strengths.
    Yeah because top science and math degrees are all dominated by females.

    12: Young boys natural boisterous behaviour is considered a mental disorder, called ADHD. Boys are drugged for not acting like girls.
    The fact you there is such a thing as "acting like a girl" shows your upholding of gender roles.

    Girls also get ADHD so obviously the behaviour is not an exclusive "natural male" trait, especially given the majority aren't anywhere near diagnosed which they would be if you claim this "boisterous behaviour" is so naturally male. :rolleyes:

    13: Men are told they are losers and sexually deficient if they dare speak up against the oppression which effects them.
    Perhaps if the men's movement wasn't ran by such bitter loons completely disinterested which actually rights and just using as a cover to bash women and feminism, this wouldn't be the case?
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Miss Ann Dairy)
    ...
    You mention the men's rights movement. However this thread is not about the men's rights movement. In fact it has nothing to do with MRAs.

    You quite clearly have not read the rest of the thread where you will find the sources and information which you are looking for.

    But more to the point as you have brought up feminism, do you not think that these issues brought up should be a feminist issue?

    (an article which may be of interest to you. http://www.theguardian.com/news/data...ivide-feminism)
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    What newspaper do you read/prefer?
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.