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Can anyone give any positives for dismantling the NHS? Watch

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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Do you know what's really efficient? People dying quickly to free up beds. Restricting access to only the wealthy and raising premiums.

    Applying efficiency arguments to human lives results in genocide. Period. We have already seen that at the DWP. This is not Godwin's law either, just because it's done by white people in a developed country and doesn't appear as a montage of child soldiers on Newsnight with a gruff voiceover doesn't mean it's not real genocide.
    Hey just because I gave positive arguments doesn't neccessarily mean I agree with dismantling the NHS I am merely saying the NHS is inefficient. Because people don't pay for their care it means they abuse things like Ambulances etc they great frunk on a Friday night and then get admitted. Also under a private system the companie would probably get targets for decreasing mortality levels therefore removing your lame 'genocide' analogy.
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    (Original post by Guy Secretan)
    Hey just because I gave positive arguments doesn't neccessarily mean I agree with dismantling the NHS I am merely saying the NHS is inefficient. Because people don't pay for their care it means they abuse things like Ambulances etc they great frunk on a Friday night and then get admitted. Also under a private system the companie would probably get targets for decreasing mortality levels therefore removing your lame 'genocide' analogy.
    No they wouldn't. Look at G4S. The government hired them and they were ****, and they got hired again. Also how would private companies stop people abusing ambulances. the NHS is not inefficient and third party research has shown this
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    The things people complain most about in NHS hospitals:
    a) the cleaners
    b) the food.
    And guess which the two things almost always privatised are?
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    lower taxes.
    and, if handled in a genuinely free market way, the price of health care will go down over time.
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    (Original post by zippity.doodah)
    lower taxes.
    and, if handled in a genuinely free market way, the price of health care will go down over time.
    American healthcare is a lot cheaper than in Britain
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    (Original post by Guy Secretan)
    I am merely saying the NHS is inefficient.
    And yet it's more efficient than all the others.

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2.../17/nhs-health
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    • It's a Ponzi-scheme which relies on the young paying for the old, which is slightly sketchy with an ageing population.
    • With no commercial drive, it's absurdly inefficient.
    • It provides a lower quality of care (even for the poor) than the majority of healthcare systems in the developed world, despite costing more money than almost all.
    • The idea than without the NHS the poor wouldn't get decent healthcare is idiotic, when you look at almost any country in the developed world which isn't America.


    If we want the best healthcare possible, for all, why should we put up with such mediocrity? When there are systems out there which can, and do, provide better results for lower cost, why do we cling to a system whose only benefit is ideological?

    All in all, there is a reason no other country uses a similar system.
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    (Original post by n00)
    And yet it's more efficient than all the others.

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2.../17/nhs-health
    From this article:

    The only serious black mark against the NHS was its poor record on keeping people alive.
    I seriously question their methodology if that isn't a deciding factor.
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    (Original post by Rinsed)
    When there are systems out there which can, and do, provide better results for lower cost
    Such as?
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    (Original post by TheAnusFiles)
    No they wouldn't. Look at G4S. The government hired them and they were ****, and they got hired again. Also how would private companies stop people abusing ambulances. the NHS is not inefficient and third party research has shown this
    G4s has nothing to do with anything. If people had to pay health insurance then obviously there would be an excess maybe a charge of maybe £30 or a no claims bonus so people whoo misuse ambulances would have to pay. Also hospitals or different healthcare companies would have to win business based on their performance therefore it would be in their interests to maintain a low mortality rate in their hospitals.
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    Also the NHS is inefficient GPs get paid far too much yet don't offer out of hours care also people are less inclined to look after thei health if they know it will be paid for. If people had to pay health insurance there would be more incentive to look after your health.
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    (Original post by Guy Secretan)
    Also the NHS is inefficient GPs get paid far too much yet don't offer out of hours care also people are less inclined to look after thei health if they know it will be paid for. If people had to pay health insurance there would be more incentive to look after your health.
    And yet it's more efficient than all the others.

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2.../17/nhs-health
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    link doesn't work
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    (Original post by Maker)
    American healthcare is a lot cheaper than in Britain
    *sigh* I knew I'd get people ignoring my second point; I said a "genuinely free market", and america does not have a free market system for health care as the government is *heavily* involved
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    (Original post by Guy Secretan)
    G4s has nothing to do with anything. If people had to pay health insurance then obviously there would be an excess maybe a charge of maybe £30 or a no claims bonus so people whoo misuse ambulances would have to pay. Also hospitals or different healthcare companies would have to win business based on their performance therefore it would be in their interests to maintain a low mortality rate in their hospitals.
    By turning people away who look like dying. This is how it works in America.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    American healthcare is a lot cheaper than in Britain
    No it isn't.
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    (Original post by zippity.doodah)
    *sigh* I knew I'd get people ignoring my second point; I said a "genuinely free market", and america does not have a free market system for health care as the government is *heavily* involved
    Are there any examples of genuine free market healthcare you can give?

    I meant Armenian not American.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    Are there any examples of genuine free market healthcare you can give?

    I meant Armenian not American.
    I can give you *more* so free market than america, e.g. hong kong
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    (Original post by zippity.doodah)
    I can give you *more* so free market than america, e.g. hong kong
    Can you elaborate?
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    (Original post by Maker)
    Can you elaborate?
    actually sorry apparently hong kong actually does have an NHS to my surprise, with 3% of government spending being used for it (e.g. making it 1st in the world in terms of healthcare cost-efficiency)- which is odd because hong kong is the most economically libertarian "country" in the world in every other area. america, for example, spends something like 10-12% of its budget on regulating, getting involved with and somewhat funding what is essentially still private healthcare/health insurance - america is a totally terrible health care state. I think hong kong probably was influenced to have some kind of NHS due to it being formerly british

    however, singapore, to my knowledge (from reading about it just a minute ago on google), is an example of a pretty much completely privately run health system and it's one of the best in the world (e.g. 6th best in quality and 2nd best in cost-efficiency). the only thing that singapore does with the government is some rules on price-control
 
 
 
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