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Guns are 'moronic', would you agree? Watch

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    (Original post by alow)
    The UK has a very well regulated system for ownership (the police even come round to check you have a secure safe to store the firearm and a different safe place for the ammunition), all ammunition (a 1000 round limit is fairly common, this is specified on your certificate) is registered and written on your license (if you're not going to use it that day) and to be given a Section 1 certificate you have to be a member of a gun club for quite a while (six months at the one I'm a member of) after which they will sponsor you for a certificate. If you're not proficient with the weapons or safe there's no way in hell a gun club would sponsor you as they could be reprimanded severely if something goes wrong and it was a members fault.
    But, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that system is limited to solely rifles and shotguns? If someone wanted, for instance, a match-standard target pistol they're not allowed under current British law?
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    (Original post by hellodave5)
    Why is there so little gun crime in Europe compared to the US? If there wasn't the access to guns in the US, there wouldn't be such high levels of gun crime.

    Most people are good people; but there are always some that would misuse.
    Professional criminals, sure... but petty criminals no... if you have lots of guns around, they will go into the hands of them.

    There is honestly no need for guns. Shooting ranges and stuff are fun, sure. But it would cause so many problems.
    I'm not sure why the reaction of everyone when discussing guns is "We don't wanna be like America", when many European countries already have much higher gun ownership rates than Britain. Or didn't you know that?
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    (Original post by Jordooooom)
    Do you live in America? Or Iraq? If not then you're a moronic coward for thinking you need a gun to protect yourself in Britain.

    Man, I'm such a badass with this gun. I'll be able to hide behind a couch like a little girl and still be able to kill someone! I could never do that using my fists or a heavy object because my little scrawny arms don't possess the strength to do so
    We are a tool using species, we didn't reach supremacy through physical prowess.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    But, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that system is limited to solely rifles and shotguns? If someone wanted, for instance, a match-standard target pistol they're not allowed under current British law?
    Shotguns are a bit more lax. The Section 1 License only covers 'Carbines' (rifles or long-barreled pistols) and semi-auto shotguns which have to be at least a certain length (can't remember it off the top of my head, I've never seen anyone at my club with anything under about 20" though). Also, you can only have .22LR rimfire or anything smaller (.176, etc.) in semi-auto, everything else has to be straight pull.

    I don't know much about other section licenses (to get things such as math pistols, semi auto big-bore riflles) other than that they are very difficult to get.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    But, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that system is limited to solely rifles and shotguns? If someone wanted, for instance, a match-standard target pistol they're not allowed under current British law?
    It's not, you can obtain Pistols, Semi-Automatic Rifles and sport-weaponry without issue.

    I am thinking of possibly picking a Browing Buck Mark.

    Hell my local range is selling of these
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    (Original post by alow)
    Shotguns are a bit more lax. The Section 1 License only covers 'Carbines' (rifles or long-barreled pistols) and semi-auto shotguns which have to be at least a certain length (can't remember it off the top of my head, I've never seen anyone at my club with anything under about 20" though). Also, you can only have .22LR rimfire or anything smaller (.176, etc.) in semi-auto, everything else has to be straight pull.

    I don't know much about other section licenses (to get things such as math pistols, semi auto big-bore riflles) other than that they are very difficult to get.
    (Original post by Three Mile Sprint)
    It's not, you can obtain Pistols, Semi-Automatic Rifles and sport-weaponry without issue.
    My shooting (while fairly extensive) has been limited to a military environment, so licenses weren't ever an issue...
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    My shooting (while fairly extensive) has been limited to a military environment, so licenses weren't ever an issue...
    That's where my love began, I remember jokingly thinking "But I have been doing this for years , why do I need a license now?"
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    (Original post by Three Mile Sprint)
    It's not, you can obtain Pistols, Semi-Automatic Rifles and sport-weaponry without issue.
    The pistols you can get on a standard Section 1 FAC aren't exactly what most people think of when you say "pistol" though. They either have to have an extended barrel + stock or be an antique.
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    (Original post by hellodave5)
    Why is there so little gun crime in Europe compared to the US? If there wasn't the access to guns in the US, there wouldn't be such high levels of gun crime.

    Most people are good people; but there are always some that would misuse.
    Professional criminals, sure... but petty criminals no... if you have lots of guns around, they will go into the hands of them.

    There is honestly no need for guns. Shooting ranges and stuff are fun, sure. But it would cause so many problems.
    I understand your concern; there is the problem of the simple-minded fool or thug who has kept under the radar getting their hands on them. But this is why poverty and general social deprivation is such an issue. Proper education and decent living conditions will greatly reduce the desire or incentive to run around intimidating others with guns. America's gun crime is how it is because its society is psychopathic and permits millions to wallow in poverty and loss. Societies, like in Europe, that are better at taking care of the disadvantaged and cultivating empathy, should be alright with a system of restricted gun ownership.
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    (Original post by Three Mile Sprint)
    We are a tool using species, we didn't reach supremacy through physical prowess.
    No, we reached supremacy through intelligence. Shooting each other isn't very intelligent in modern day society is it?
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    My shooting (while fairly extensive) has been limited to a military environment, so licenses weren't ever an issue...
    At least you've has the chance to experience using firearms that you could probably never use in the UK otherwise. Damn full-auto is fun, but I also completely understand why it is banned other than the armed forces (I would assume some police also have them).
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    (Original post by Jordooooom)
    No, we reached supremacy through intelligence.
    You can be as smart as you like, but if you can't make a hatchet a chisel or work out basic smelting your civilization won't have much to show for it.

    And shooting someone from behind a couch is certainly more intelligent than running up to them and pounding them to death with your fists.

    Though both are satisfying in their own regards.

    Shooting each other isn't very intelligent in modern day society is it?
    It's the most efficient way of (practically) killing each other currently, efficiency is one of the hallmarks of intelligent design and production.
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    (Original post by bertstare)
    I'm not sure why the reaction of everyone when discussing guns is "We don't wanna be like America", when many European countries already have much higher gun ownership rates than Britain. Or didn't you know that?
    If they are only allowed to be given to a few people. With like, 6 months intensive training required to own one... and vast numbers of psychometric tests, continuously given whilst the gun is owned... and high fees for ownership... then I'd be more inclined to feel its acceptable.

    Just referred to the US as its nuts. Why would guns be needed in the UK?
    Which countries has most successful gun laws?
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    (Original post by alow)
    At least you've has the chance to experience using firearms that you could probably never use in the UK otherwise. Damn full-auto is fun, but I also completely understand why it is banned other than the armed forces (I would assume some police also have them).
    Full auto on a GMPG, only ever semi on the SA80, though. But handguns, match rifles, all that jazz. Even used race-spec biathlon rifles on a few occasions, they're fun, lovely bolt action.
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    (Original post by Three Mile Sprint)
    You can be as smart as you like, but if you can't make a hatchet a chisel or work out basic smelting your civilization won't have much to show for it.

    And shooting someone from behind a cough is certainly more intelligent than running up to them and pounding them to death with your fists.

    Those both are satisfying in there own regards.


    It's the most efficient way of killing each other currently, efficiency is one of the hallmarks of intelligent design and production.
    These things were invented through intelligence. Why is that so hard for you to understand? Monkeys also possess the capability to use tools but without the required intelligence, it doesn't get them very far.

    Of course it's the most efficient way of killing, which is fine within the confines of war. But on the public streets it is not what you want. Hey, how about we just hand out bombs to the public, I mean that even more efficient right?

    This all seems to be going way over your head.
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    (Original post by Abstraction)
    I understand your concern; there is the problem of the simple-minded fool or thug who has kept under the radar getting their hands on them. But this is why poverty and general social deprivation is such an issue. Proper education and decent living conditions will greatly reduce the desire or incentive to run around intimidating others with guns. America's gun crime is how it is because its society is psychopathic and permits millions to wallow in poverty and loss. Societies, like in Europe, that are better at taking care of the disadvantaged and cultivating empathy, should be alright with a system of restricted gun ownership.
    I see what you mean; that their gun problems are an expression of wider social-economic-political problems.
    Though, unfortunately we have those problems too, albeit nowhere near as bad. Lots of people in poverty, and with little to no education, or a poor upbringing.
    I don't trust humans... we do stupid ****. I wouldn't like anyone to be carrying a tool of death where they don't have to think and just 'press a magic death button'.
    Honestly don't see why a gun would be needed at all. That's the only thing.
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    (Original post by hellodave5)
    If they are only allowed to be given to a few people. With like, 6 months intensive training required to own one... and vast numbers of psychometric tests, continuously given whilst the gun is owned... and high fees for ownership... then I'd be more inclined to feel its acceptable.

    Just referred to the US as its nuts. Why would guns be needed in the UK?
    Which countries has most successful gun laws?
    I think japan is the clear winner. They have as much as 2 gun related homicides a year. And they have the strictest controls. Funny that huh?
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    Full auto on a GMPG, only ever semi on the SA80, though. But handguns, match rifles, all that jazz. Even used race-spec biathlon rifles on a few occasions, they're fun, lovely bolt action.
    Biathalon rifes must be a bit different to use, are they really light?

    It was a shame handguns were banned from regular citizens in the UK, I know someone who had dozens of really nice ones (I've only seen pictures), a load of Walthers IIRC, all different platings, worth a hell of a lot of money. Of course he had to go hand them in down the police station to be destroyed
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    (Original post by Jordooooom)
    These things were invented through intelligence. Why is that so hard for you to understand? Monkeys also possess the capability to use tools but without the required intelligence, it doesn't get them very far.
    Agreed, however tool use is still the primary practical expression of our success.

    Though it was of course precipitated by our advanced intelligence.

    I agree we are being pedantic.

    Of course it's the most efficient way of killing, which is fine within the confines of war. But on the public streets it is not what you want. Hey, how about we just hand out bombs to the public, I mean that even more efficient right?

    This all seems to be going way over your head.
    No one here is talking about giving high-powered weaponry to the public, nor are we discussing explosives.
    You have stated two ideas that are obviously stupid and no one (here) is supporting or proposing.

    In one swoop you presented an argument and defeated it, without the help of anyone else.

    Saying that numerous statistical studies in the states have shown that gun-ownership hasn't effected violent crime at all in comparison to countries that don't have a relaxed gun ownership policy. I.E everyone walking about with pistols and rifles doesn't make anyone any more or less safe.

    Edit: Also..relax my friend, the tone of your posts seems to be hinting at exasperation and stress(I can't be sure it is after all the internet and tone is hard to pick up in writing) however this is just a discussion you don't need to get worked up about it complain that stuff is going over peoples heads.
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    I don't mind people keeping it in their houses (under lock and key ofcourse) so that they can defend themselves from intruders. I am firmly against people carrying them outside of the home though. Just the thought of people carrying guns makes me nervous as the stupid outweigh the smart in numbers
 
 
 
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