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    (Original post by SpikeyTeeth)
    That's because the Jews did a "Protocols of Zion" style hidden deal with Britain in 1917 when Britain was losing World War I and brought the United States in for Palestine in Exchange. It was done under the Balfour Declaration of 1917, and the official document shows a deal with the Zionist Federation of Great Britain.


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    It wasn't a "hidden deal", it was a letter from Balfour to Lord Rothschild in his capacity as leader of zionism, and it was very public in character.

    You realise the Protocols of Zion is a hoax?
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    (Original post by broscience123)
    You do know that Israel was created through bloodshed right?
    So it was like the American Revolution in that respect?

    E.g. the King David Hotel Bombing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing) carried out by terrorist Zionist group Irgun which is now known formally as the IDF. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun)
    The IDF was created before the Irgun was stood down. It sounds like you haven't heard about the Altalena Affair. How could the IDF and Irgun have a violent confrontation with each other if they were the same thing?

    Early Israeli history is actually fascinating, I'd be happy to recommend some books if you enjoy learning about history and would like to know more
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    (Original post by HeavyTeddy)
    To be honest, I think it must be disrespectful to people who have suffered anti-semitic persecution to hear others labelling those who are anti-killing as anti-semites; as a result, it indirectly suggests they're associated with the alternative. Point is, it isn't fair to label people as anti-semites as a tactic in order to safeguard the state of Israel legitimacy and their actions.
    There might well be something to it.

    I have heard pro-Palestine advocates claim a million times that Israel accuses anyone against them of being an anti-semite. I have heard this countless times, whereas I have never heard an Israel advocate claim that anyone who criticises Israel is axiomatically an anti-semite. Can you point to even one example?

    The fact I've heard the former countless times and the latter never, it raises a question of disingenuousness on the part of these pro-Palestine advocates that actually does wrangle them into the realm of anti-semitism. At the least it raises a question mark because they are the ones who keep making the unsubstantiated claim that anti-semitism is overused as an accusation.

    In fact, the disingenuousness in repeatedly raising that as an issue when it's not being raised by pro-Israeli advocates underlines both the propagandistic nature of the charge by pro-Palestine advocates and their, at the very least, carelessness in stoking up confusion over semitism and Zionism in a way that actually hadn't been done by the pro-Israel advocates.
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    (Original post by young_guns)
    So anyone who disagrees with you is "intolerant of free thought"?

    I'm not saying you can't ask the question, I'm merely saying you shouldn't be surprised when people conclude you have National Socialist tendencies if you do.

    And yes, it is prejudiced beyond belief
    I am saying that anyone who believes that others should not question cannot tolerate free thinking. To be a free thinker, you have to have freedom to think, and that means having the freedom to question. That's what I did in my post. Why can't I question? Can you tolerate the free thinker? Can you tolerate free thinking?
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    Why can't I question?
    Where did I say you can't question?

    If anything, it is you who seems to be claiming I have no right to disagree with your views or object to the premise of your obviously rhetorical and ideologically-motivated questions

    Why can't I disagree with you? Why are you the arbiter of speech? Who made you the censor?
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    (Original post by Datch)
    In my opinion it's because in recent modern times, Jews attracted envy for being successful in business, science, medicine etc.., the disproportionate number of Jews in these fields attracted resentment.

    In more recent times, the Jewish state of Israel has attracted criticism because of the way the Muslim minority is treated. many of those who criticise Israel though would say that it is Israel they disapprove of, not Jews. Some of them are probably sincere in this view, though anti Semitism has such a long history, one suspects that the Muslims are not the main reason at least some of those people criticise Israel.

    The Jewish people for ever have been the Brunt of Bigoted Racists who only want to be left alone in Peace
    I disagree.

    I think Jews are insecure and want everyone to like them and be nice to them.
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    (Original post by young_guns)
    So.... you're saying all Jews are racist?
    I was waiting for someone to do this.

    the question was why is society so anti-semitic? i gave my best guesses as to what the reasons for other people are. as you mention in the quote below it is reformed jews and not the hasidim or the hardcore. they are basically the jews that bend the rules or reinterpret scripture to be more 21st century. but at its most fundamental and distilled you are not supposed to marry a non jew.

    (Original post by young_guns)
    Err, no. What you do see is that Jewish people often tend to marry other Jewish people. Though if you look at the Jewish population in America or Britain, there are actually quite high rates of intermarriage, and reform Judaism quite happily accepts people who weren't born as Jews into the religion.
    i basically answered this above. but as i said the jews your mentioning are from a more friendly inclusive brand of judaism. its bit like the whole thing with islam at its most fundamental having 3 wives, owning slaves, chopping off the hands off of thieves and raping your enemies wives and daughters and also yea and having the age of consent being based on when you have your period. do all muslims do this? no. but is it part of the super intense by the book literal interpretation squad? yes.

    (Original post by young_guns)
    But even so, why the judgment particularly on Jews for marrying their own kind? That is actually what happens in the vast majority of the world, most people are quite conservative like that. Interesting that you particularly single out Jews, when that is actually quite common in China, or Russia, or parts of Africa. Why is that?
    you are right that jews are not unique in this. i never claimed they were the only ones doing it. other communities are racist. some have it built into their religions too

    (Original post by young_guns)
    It has nothing to do with being non Jewish and everything to do with being observant of Jewish laws on food preparation. If a non-Jew observes the rules then they can handle food that is kosher
    "If a gentile has a religious Jewish friend over for dinner and he wants to prepare something special, what can be done? If a gentile chef is interested in working for religious Jewish clientele, what's the answer? Are these things permissible according to the tenets of the Torah? There are Jewish religious laws stating that only Jews can cook Kosher food. In order to make this a workable situation, a kosher supervisor will oversee the cooking project and participate in the act of cooking to some extent, even if that means simply turing on the heat source. The rest of the food preparation will be up to the gourmet chef."

    now i imagine the whole making things "workable" is not on the cards of the more orthodox jews no?


    (Original post by young_guns)
    You are confused. You clearly do not understand how kosher works. Have you been getting your information about Judaism from Stormfront?
    seems from the above quote i seem to get it pretty much. although it seems so far that your not talking about judaism in its most purest form and are talking about the nicer more laid back jewish side of things. the points im making i do not really care about. i mean even if you are all hard core jewish and don't want me to invite you round for dinner then cool whatever. but the question is asking why do people have issue. now im mentioning things that may, at some point in history, pissed at least one person off. so im hazarding a guess.
    If i invited a friend round for dinner and he said "sorry i don't eat from gentiles" then yea i'd be kinda hurt. but if he said "ok... look i'm down... but i gotta bring a kosher supervisor in... i know its a bit weird but its part of my culture/religion. hope you don't take offence. if ur interested i can explain it a little bit more" i'd be genuinely interested in the customs and history. i find learning new things fun.

    but yea saying i get my info from stormfront is a bit cheap really isnt it.

    i mean the question of the thread is asking why people might have a problem with jews.
    so i mention what things that may cause people to have ill feelings towards jews and for this you are accusing me of directly having ill feeling towards jews personally?

    or are u just trying to frame this in a way that is you arguing with a racist?

    because what? arguing with my points is too much of a challenge and you feel the need to invalidate my points by smearing my character and essentially accusing me of being a nazi? how cheap...


    (Original post by young_guns)
    They don't think they're better than everyone else. You do realise that this religion was started 3000 years ago, there's nothing singularly objectionable about Jewish people believing their tribe has a special relationship with god, pretty much every group in history believed that.
    "the chosen people" don't think they are better than the people who were not "chosen"? ok...
    but once again you are mistaken. i do not think all jews think this. but its written down in the ol' book. i mean i always thought it was a bit weird. islam and christianity and judaism all all stem from the old testament. seeing as the book is essentially about the jews i do think its quite retarded for non jews to pick it up and try n make a religion based off of jews about themselves and then resenting jews for it. thats like a white guy adopting rap as his chosen musical form and then resenting black people having invented it. i mean if they loved jesus so much shouldnt they just be jews who believe the son of god came? i dunno... i'm kinda interested in it. but then it all seems so complicated and so much bulls***t surrounds these religions that i do tend to just be like... "boy what a mess... screw tryna make sense of that"
    n then it all falls back on interpretation and needing some "special" interpreter like an imam or rabbi or priest or some other spirit pimp to go pouring sweet nothings into your ear. and i don't trust people. no matter how holy you think you are.

    and not all cultural groups believed that their spirituality was intrinsically bound to their race and their blood and their descent from the "tribe"

    (Original post by young_guns)
    To be honest, you have some pretty anti-semitic whether that's conscious or not. Where do you live in Britain? If you're close to London, very happy to take you along to a synagogue to experience the saturday morning service, meet some Jewish people, experience the culture.

    People's views often change when they have personal experience of the thing they
    and what have chosen as proof of my anti-semitic views? i am in the uk and have no objection going to a synagogue. i have never been to one before. i havent really experienced british jewish culture. i mean i've been by the orthodox jews but they seem to want to live a parallel existence beside me where i don't exist. but regular jewish people i've met always just seem like regular english people to me. but maybe thats just because i havent exactly been brought in. but i loved the jewish community in new york. they seemed very distinct with their own accent, slang, humour, music and food. it was very warm and embracing. although the complex thing about judaism is its hard to say if this is because they were jews or if they were specifically jews of yiddish extraction. or if its american jews of yiddish extraction or even just new yorks influence. but certainly i pin it down to being a number of factors. i mean. i do not think non jewish eastern europeans in new york have the same vibe as jewish eastern europeans in new york. but yea i've got fond memories there. i'm also quite a fan of jewish music. the hatikvah is one of my favourite songs/anthems.
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    (Original post by young_guns)
    Where did I say you can't question?

    If anything, it is you who seems to be claiming I have no right to disagree with your views or object to the premise of your obviously rhetorical and ideologically-motivated questions

    Why can't I disagree with you? Why are you the arbiter of speech? Who made you the censor?
    By the very admission that you accuse me of "outrageous anti-semitism". There was nothing anti-semitic about what I wrote, so your accusation against me was obviously designed to silence me. That's why you are intolerant.
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    It isn't.
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    (Original post by Mick.w)
    but at its most fundamental and distilled you are not supposed to marry a non jew
    Super literal hardcore Orthodox Jews don't get to decide what is and is not judaism. And either way, how does it negatively affect you? How does it in any way justify anti-semitism?

    now i imagine the whole making things "workable" is not on the cards of the more orthodox jews no?
    As I said, hardcore Orthodox Jews don't get to dictate what is and is not judaism. And so what? They have a few funny dietary rules. They are not forcing them on anyone else, so I really don't see how it justifies anti-semitism

    If i invited a friend round for dinner and he said "sorry i don't eat from gentiles"
    I've never met a Jewish person who would say that. To the extent that there are such people, they tend to keep to themselves and to their own communities.

    I really don't see how you can find it objectionable for the ones who do have these views simply to keep to themselves and live in their own little communities. They're not trying to force anyone else to believe what they believe. They're not going around chopping off people's heads, or knocking on doors to evangelising. They have some strange beliefs, but they keep to themselves. To me that sounds pretty reasonable

    then yea i'd be kinda hurt. but if he said "ok... look i'm down... but i gotta bring a kosher supervisor in... i know its a bit weird but its part of my culture/religion. hope you don't take offence. if ur interested i can explain it a little bit more" i'd be genuinely interested in the customs and history. i find learning new things fun.
    In which case, everyone's happy The dinner can proceed

    i mean the question of the thread is asking why people might have a problem with jews.
    so i mention what things that may cause people to have ill feelings towards jews and for this you are accusing me of directly having ill feeling towards jews personally?
    I think it's reasonable to ask the degree to which you believe the reasons which people have problems with Jews are reasonable.

    When you look at the society which had the most anti-semitic issue in the 20th century, Germany, the Jews in Germany were incedibly well integrated. They intermarried a lot, they were part of government and society, they gave liberally to non Jewish causes.

    And the Jews who were more insular kept to themselves. They didn't go around proclaiming "We're the best!", they just did their own thing.

    Fundamentally, the reason I view you as being somewhat anti-semitic is that you seem to believe the reason people dislike Jews is because of the Jews' actions. That is victim-blaming. The vast majority of anti-semitism historically came from simple prejudice and bigotry, or religious beliefs that "the Jews killed Jesus" or "they dress funny".

    Do you or do you not believe that it is the Jews' fault that there is anti-semitism?

    "the chosen people" don't think they are better than the people who were not "chosen"? ok...
    They believe they were chosen by Yahweh for a very specific purpose, in the same way you might pick a certain employee for a job

    Say we're having a football match at school, and we're picking players from the class. I pick players based on their skills and so on. It doesn't mean the people I didn't choose are bad people, or that I hate them, it's simply that my chosen team were chosen for specific reasons.

    and not all cultural groups believed that their spirituality was intrinsically bound to their race and their blood and their descent from the "tribe"
    If you think judaism is a racial thing, then take a look at this photo




    When it comes down to it, I do believe you are anti-semitic if you believe that people have some kind of right to hassle Jews or hate them simply because some of them follow their religion and keep to themselves without harming anyone else

    It's like blaming a woman for being raped because the rapist believed she thought she was hot.
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    For those who don't think that there's anti-Semitism in today's world, here are a few examples of recent news stories on this issue:

    Anti-Semitic Attack Reported Near Paris - NY Times (3 Dec 2014)

    Anti-Semitism in France Today - Huffington Post (18 Nov 2014)

    Conference in Berlin Focuses on Rising Anti-Semitism - Huffington Post (18 Nov 2014)

    Warning on Anti-Semitism in Europe - NY Times (13 Nov 2014)

    Ignoring Anti-Semitism Won't Make it Go Away - Washington Post (13 Nov 2014)

    Europe's Anti-Semitism Comes Out of the Shadow - NY Times (23 Sept 2014)

    What's Behind Germany's New Anti-Semitism - NY Times (16 Sept 2014)

    The Rising Tide of Anti-Semitism - NY Times (25 Aug 2014)

    Why Jews are Worried: Deborah E. Lipstadt on the Rising Anti-Semitism in Europe - NY Times (20 Aug 2014)
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    (Original post by Mick.w)
    I was waiting for someone to do this.

    the question was why is society so anti-semitic? i gave my best guesses as to what the reasons for other people are. as you mention in the quote below it is reformed jews and not the hasidim or the hardcore. they are basically the jews that bend the rules or reinterpret scripture to be more 21st century. but at its most fundamental and distilled you are not supposed to marry a non jew.
    There are marriage rules of this nature in both Christianity and Islam, yet for whatever reason, everybody conveniently ignores this when creating their narrative that Judaism is some kind of "racist cult". It's only Judaism which is ever really singled out in this way. Jews do "marry-out" and pretty high rates, so it's pretty hard for any rational person to believe that on the whole Jews are generally racist or supremacist, but anyone at all, who singles out Jews or things relating to Jews, when these things apply to non-Jewish people or other religions, is an antisemite.

    Loads of Northern Irish Protestant parents would be angry if their son brought home a Catholic girl.

    Loads of Muslim parents would lose their heads if their daughter brought a kaffir boy back


    ...


    It does go beyond cultural or historical differences; Catholicism only recognises marriages between practicing Catholics (other Christian denominations have similar rules), in Islam, Muslim women are only allowed to marry Muslim men. These are the rules they believe have been created by God.
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    (Original post by yo radical one)
    There are marriage rules of this nature in both Christianity and Islam, yet for whatever reason, everybody conveniently ignores this when creating their narrative that Judaism is some kind of "racist cult". It's only Judaism which is ever really singled out in this way. Jews do "marry-out" and pretty high rates, so it's pretty hard for any rational person to believe that on the whole Jews are generally racist or supremacist, but anyone at all, who singles out Jews or things relating to Jews, when these things apply to non-Jewish people or other religions, is an antisemite.

    Loads of Northern Irish Protestant parents would be angry if their son brought home a Catholic girl.

    Loads of Muslim parents would lose their heads if their daughter brought a kaffir boy back


    ...


    It does go beyond cultural or historical differences; Catholicism only recognises marriages between practicing Catholics (other Christian denominations have similar rules), in Islam, Muslim women are only allowed to marry Muslim men. These are the rules they believe have been created by God.
    no. converting to judaism is a long process. christianity and islam have you convert in like 3 seconds.

    not only that but its ok for muslim men to marry non muslim women.

    christians are even more liberal as women and men are allowed to marry non christians.

    in turkey it is a very common mix to have christian women and muslim man.

    in fact its quite traditional in turkey as the sultans often married christians.


    also the northern irish situation is not religious. although i can understand the confusion.

    the religion is an indicator of ethnicity.

    this is why when celtic and rangers fans abuse eachother regarding protestant vs catholic rivalry they get arrested for racism.

    the protestants are descendent from the british royalist ruling class (think of them as a akin to white south africans, or israelis) the catholics are native irish (think black south africans or palestinians), who varied as full blown slaves to indentured servitude to just working conditions comparable to slavery. these conditions were bad to the point that there was often rebellions. these rebellions in turn caused reactions of genocidal violence.
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    (Original post by young_guns)
    Super literal hardcore Orthodox Jews don't get to decide what is and is not judaism. And either way, how does it negatively affect you? How does it in any way justify anti-semitism?
    i wrote some big response to this but the mods have been on my ass about being nice to people so i need to be careful about what i say. if u want my full response i can pm it. if your bothered that is.

    but ye i'll just keep it short.

    but ye believe what you like about me.
    if you want to lob me into the same boat as hitler then i can't stop you.

    but i know what my intentions and views are.

    and my views on jews are almos nil.

    ashkenazi are the only type of jews i've met.

    and as i said theres a big difference between the ones i've met in the uk and the usa.

    and my personal experience of the ones was not good.

    i don't get why people think jews are so special and unique either positively or negatively.

    but i really don't get what the big deal is, ashkenazi are just white people with some old testament variant religion.
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    (Original post by Mick.w)
    i don't get why people think jews are so special and unique either positively or negatively.
    I refer you to ... European History.
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    (Original post by Viceroy)
    I refer you to ... European History.
    I think I understand but would you care to elaborate
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    (Original post by 9.11JewishCrime)
    Let's ask what did the Jews do to Germany that got them persecuted. Not just Germany though, look at the Hungarian uprising you think it was anti-communist? anti-Jewish.Jews were largely Communists and yes capitalist rich Jews financed the revolution. Communism was a great way of Jews seizing control.
    It's good that you're taking part in this thread because it will make it clear to everyone that there is still plenty of anti-Semitism in today's world -- You're part of it. Your username alone makes that obvious, not to mention your posts.
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    I'm not anti-Semitic. But, I dislike what Israel is doing.
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    (Original post by 9.11JewishCrime)
    Jews destroyed Western society which is why it's been on such a decline. Freudian psychoanalysis, Boasian anthropology, the Frankfurt school, and Marxist political ideology.What do these all have in common? Jewish creations. Don't get me started on the genocidal multicultural melting pot, a Jewish creation by the way. Jews get a Jewish national homeland, White's are robbed of theirs as we're made minorities in our own homeland.All these quotes from Jews about issuing Visa's and the last generation of White children.This genocide these Jews are committing against our people, so anyone here who is White must know what they've done to your people.Not to mention it's largely WHITE people who died and suffered during WW2, so don't go crying to me about the Holocaust.
    You're disgusting and should be ashamed of yourself.
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    (Original post by TimeWalker)
    "For Germany and the German people, this trial made clear how correct the Führer’s actions, and his attitude toward this Asiatic-Negroid race, are.

    ...
    It demands only a reduction of the influence of this foreign race to a level appropriate to its percentage relative to the German people, and that in those positions and occupations that determine the fate of the German people only members of its own race be allowed. It would never occur to the Jew to make Gentiles judges in a Jewish national state, or to let them determine that fate of the Jews. We claim for ourselves only that same right, that the German people in Germany be ruled by German people.
    "
    Yes Germany's Führer was correct on the point that a foreign race should not get a political stronghold over a country. (This is not to state agreement with him). Britain should really take note of this point as the way things are going it's own people will be a powerless minority in the decades to come and people from its ex-colonies will be turning it into their image.




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