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Anti-Semitism on the march in Europe again Watch

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    (Original post by samba)
    You mean the same PLO that has acted in such a way as to get its people massacred over and over during the last 50 years?
    Okay again here come the Ignorant statements. the PLO has long since denounced violence and seeks a negotiated just solution. And hat about the atrocities of the Israelis against Arab peoples over the last 50 years. Anyone remember Lebanon 1983?
    Its is evident that you care little about discussing an actual solution to the conflict in the region and are committed to the unquestioned defense of the Israeli government. your agenda is the villinisation of the Palestinian people ho are victims of the current situation due to the misinformed attitudes that you demonstrate.
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    (Original post by banker 132)
    Okay again here come the Ignorant statements. the PLO has long since denounced violence and seeks a negotiated just solution. And hat about the atrocities of the Israelis against Arab peoples over the last 50 years. Anyone remember Lebanon 1983?
    Its is evident that you care little about discussing an actual solution to the conflict in the region and are committed to the unquestioned defense of the Israeli government. your agenda is the villinisation of the Palestinian people ho are victims of the current situation due to the misinformed attitudes that you demonstrate.
    Black september? 2 Intifadas? War of the Camps as you mention Lebanon? Lebanese Civil War?

    They've killed far more Palestinian civilians than Israel ever have. And Hamas still has support on the ground. And the group gaining the next most groundswell is IS. Don't paint innocent victims out of a warmongering authority.
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    (Original post by samba)
    Black september? 2 Intifadas? War of the Camps as you mention Lebanon? Lebanese Civil War?

    They've killed far more Palestinian civilians than Israel ever have. And Hamas still has support on the ground. And the group gaining the next most groundswell is IS. Don't paint innocent victims out of a warmongering authority.
    Again im not sure if you got this but even the israeli government accepts it-THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY HAS RENOUNCED THE USE OF VIOLENCE TO ARCHIVE ITS POLITICAL GOALS MORE THAN 10 YEARS AGO! and to blame the authoruty alone for the intifadas is a juvinile way of looking at the crisis. Your obsession with the past shows your lack interest in a viable future.
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    I wouldn't class myself as anti-semitic. But out of all the main religions, Judaism is the only one I hate.

    It's just backwards in my opinion. Women and children are second-class citizens. They believe that there is mythical land that has been promised to them, which apparently gives them the right to fight over it and kill innocent men women and children. Their god is an absolute dbag. He is an angry, jealous, violent, murderous psychopath who sanctions the death of anyone who goes against him.

    What's happening in Israel/Palestine at the moment is quite unbelievable. I don't agree with what Hamas are doing but it shouldn't be Palestinian civilians paying the price for it. As it stands, around 1,500 Palestinian civilians have been massacred by Israel. This all stems from some alleged 'promised land' written in a fictional book. The fact that the US and other western countries back Israel is astonishing.

    Zionism is no different to Nazism. The only reason they get away with it is because they seem to think that the world owes them something after what happened 70-80 years ago. Even the holocaust is misrepresented. If you ask the average person on the street what the holocaust was they'd probably say something like 'It's when Hitler killed loads of Jews'. The reality is only half were Jewish. No one seems to give a monkey's about the rest.
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    (Original post by banker 132)
    Again im not sure if you got this but even the israeli government accepts it-THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY HAS RENOUNCED THE USE OF VIOLENCE TO ARCHIVE ITS POLITICAL GOALS MORE THAN 10 YEARS AGO! and to blame the authoruty alone for the intifadas is a juvinile way of looking at the crisis. Your obsession with the past shows your lack interest in a viable future.
    Yet hundreds of rockets a day are being fired at Israel, and weapons and terrorists are being closeted among civilian populations. You need wide ranging support for that to happen. If the people renounced the use of violence Hamas would have far less power, and salafis wouldn't be gaining groundswell.

    I'm not 'blaming' anyone. I'm merely noting that Israel has caused far less death for the Palestinian people than their own governments have, despite having vastly superior firepower. If they wanted to kill civilians, many many more would be dead.

    It's all regrettable, and both sides are pretty bloodthirsty. But it's a complex conflict where all sides are responsible, not something you can paint as 'atrocities' or compare to nazi germany/apartheid. (see the poster above me for why I'm so robust. People are simply uneducated)
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    (Original post by samba)
    Yet hundreds of rockets a day are being fired at Israel, and weapons and terrorists are being closeted among civilian populations. You need wide ranging support for that to happen. If the people renounced the use of violence Hamas would have far less power, and salafis wouldn't be gaining groundswell.

    I'm not 'blaming' anyone. I'm merely noting that Israel has caused far less death for the Palestinian people than their own governments have, despite having vastly superior firepower. If they wanted to kill civilians, many many more would be dead.

    It's all regrettable, and both sides are pretty bloodthirsty. But it's a complex conflict where all sides are responsible, not something you can paint as 'atrocities' or compare to nazi germany/apartheid. (see the poster above me for why I'm so robust. People are simply uneducated)
    While i dont agree with the poster above you , I must say you are pretty uneducated on the matter yourself. Hamas is not the same organisation as the Palestinian Authority to start with. The Palestinian Authority is a moderate organisation which constantly speaks out against the rockets and yet the Israelis do everything they can to dis-empower them. This current attack has seen Hamas' popularity sky rocket while the PA's plummets. This then allows the Israelis to allege that they cannot negotiate with Palestine as the Palestinians are extremists, when most of them are not. Your own ignorance on the matter evidences the success of this narrative.

    You cannot argue that we must thank the Israelis as they have not killed more Palestinians and that this shows their restraint. Clearly they cannot become much more ruthless than they are being now without even their diplomatic situation becoming even more dire than it is now.

    And again, you cannot blame Palestinian organisations for the death of Palestinians. They are fighting back(wrong as they may be) against a brutal and illegal occupation. Gaza is under a punishing siege and even during relative peace thousands die because of a lack of food, water and medicine. To then come out and say that by resisting this Hamas causes the death of more Palestinians than the Israelis is to misunderstand the dynamics of the situation altogether.
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    (Original post by banker 132)
    While i dont agree with the poster above you , I must say you are pretty uneducated on the matter yourself. Hamas is not the same organisation as the Palestinian Authority to start with. The Palestinian Authority is a moderate organisation which constantly speaks out against the rockets and yet the Israelis do everything they can to dis-empower them. This current attack has seen Hamas' popularity sky rocket while the PA's plummets. This then allows the Israelis to allege that they cannot negotiate with Palestine as the Palestinians are extremists, when most of them are not. Your own ignorance on the matter evidences the success of this narrative.
    I know the PA is not Hamas. The point was that if there was enough support on the ground, the PA [moderates] would be able to exert far more control over Hamas. Instead (even before the conflict began), groundswell was moving from Hamas towards Salafi factions. There's even been some reports of softening attitudes between the two. (Salafis would have NEVER been able to operate openly in gaza a couple of years ago.

    You cannot argue that we must thank the Israelis as they have not killed more Palestinians and that this shows their restraint. Clearly they cannot become much more ruthless than they are being now without even their diplomatic situation becoming even more dire than it is now.
    I'm not saying you have to thank them. I'm saying you have to acknowledge the fact. The situation on the ground in Israel now is hawkish in the extreme. If they tried to show any more moderation they'd just get replaced with a more hawkish government. (the Israeli parliament is weak, and often replaced when they become unpopular. Always another election round the corner there.) As for the international situation, Israel has never really had a history of genocide in military skirmishes, and I doubt it impacts the strategy all that much.

    And again, you cannot blame Palestinian organisations for the death of Palestinians. They are fighting back(wrong as they may be) against a brutal and illegal occupation. Gaza is under a punishing siege and even during relative peace thousands die because of a lack of food, water and medicine. To then come out and say that by resisting this Hamas causes the death of more Palestinians than the Israelis is to misunderstand the dynamics of the situation altogether.
    We'll never agree on this one, so I'll just say that whilst respecting your opinion I disagree with it and find it factually incorrect. What I will argue is that the response of firing so many rockets is causing deaths, as they know exactly what the consequences will be. (conflict, death and slight increase in international support). They need to do it because they literally have no friends left, and it's about power for them. Not to 'fight back', but to protect their own political support.
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    (Original post by samba)
    I know the PA is not Hamas. The point was that if there was enough support on the ground, the PA [moderates] would be able to exert far more control over Hamas. Instead (even before the conflict began), groundswell was moving from Hamas towards Salafi factions. There's even been some reports of softening attitudes between the two. (Salafis would have NEVER been able to operate openly in gaza a couple of years ago.
    I agree with you that there is growing extremism and weakening support for moderates but this is to be expected given the siege, occupation and settlements. The solution is not to assume that the Palestinians are extremists, desperation is hat causes them to turn towards extremism. Also the Israeli government should stop actively discrediting the PA and other moderates. surely they are aware that thier actions have these effects. they discredit the PA so as to delay and derail negotiations. THey are certainly not innocent bystanders in this.



    (Original post by samba)
    I'm not saying you have to thank them. I'm saying you have to acknowledge the fact. The situation on the ground in Israel now is hawkish in the extreme. If they tried to show any more moderation they'd just get replaced with a more hawkish government. (the Israeli parliament is weak, and often replaced when they become unpopular. Always another election round the corner there.) As for the international situation, Israel has never really had a history of genocide in military skirmishes, and I doubt it impacts the strategy all that much.
    I understand this, but anyone who's primary concern was the to put an end to the humanitarian catastrophe in Palestine and ending the plight of the Palestinian people will have no little interest in the internal politics of Israel. It is hardly a moral argument to say that we have to keep up this costly offensive otherwise we will be vote out and a more costly offensive will be launched.



    (Original post by samba)
    We'll never agree on this one, so I'll just say that whilst respecting your opinion I disagree with it and find it factually incorrect. What I will argue is that the response of firing so many rockets is causing deaths, as they know exactly what the consequences will be. (conflict, death and slight increase in international support). They need to do it because they literally have no friends left, and it's about power for them. Not to 'fight back', but to protect their own political support.
    Politics plays a part on both sides, admittedly but the reason that this strategy works is because of the underlying causes of the conflict. if the residents of the Gaza strip had reasonable standards of living they wouldnt turn to supporting Hamas in times of conflict. support for hamas would decrease. The reason people support Hamas is that while Israel is a 1st world country, Nutrition levels and living standards in the Gaza strip are at the same levels as sub saharan africa because of the seige. Thats morally appalling and must be addressed.
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    For all you right-wingers who oppose mass immigration understand it's these Jews who are behind turning Europe into a multicultural melting pot. So stop defending your enemy the Jews are not friends of ours and never have been. They are our enemies and deserve what they get for what they've done to us.
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    (Original post by Michael!)
    I wouldn't class myself as anti-semitic. But out of all the main religions, Judaism is the only one I hate.

    It's just backwards in my opinion. Women and children are second-class citizens. They believe that there is mythical land that has been promised to them, which apparently gives them the right to fight over it and kill innocent men women and children. Their god is an absolute dbag. He is an angry, jealous, violent, murderous psychopath who sanctions the death of anyone who goes against him.

    What's happening in Israel/Palestine at the moment is quite unbelievable. I don't agree with what Hamas are doing but it shouldn't be Palestinian civilians paying the price for it. As it stands, around 1,500 Palestinian civilians have been massacred by Israel. This all stems from some alleged 'promised land' written in a fictional book. The fact that the US and other western countries back Israel is astonishing.

    Zionism is no different to Nazism. The only reason they get away with it is because they seem to think that the world owes them something after what happened 70-80 years ago. Even the holocaust is misrepresented. If you ask the average person on the street what the holocaust was they'd probably say something like 'It's when Hitler killed loads of Jews'. The reality is only half were Jewish. No one seems to give a monkey's about the rest.
    Do Jews have a right to a homeland?

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    The problem is that antisemitic thinking has become almost a cultural tone to the point where nobody sees it unless people are literally doing Nazi salutes

    Claiming that the (mainstream) media is Zionist is antisemitism
    Claiming that the banks are part of a Zionist conspiracy is antisemitism
    Claiming that the government is Zionist is antisemitism

    I'm not even saying that criticising specific actions Israel carries out is antisemitic at all, but often there is overlap whenever people discuss Israel. (As someone who votes Labour) I would say that the right in recent years, has done so much more to police themselves than the left when it comes to antisemitic attitudes.
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    (Original post by B_Boy_Turco)
    No need to speak, we just have to fight, as a Turk I can say we will wipe Israel out of world map. Wait and see.
    And people say Israelis are the genocidal ones!

    Good lucking wiping out a country with nukes and which has America behind it.
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    I'm talking about Hamas because that is who Israel is fighting right now.
    whom*

    For a zionist, you're not very smart.
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    (Original post by Namige)
    whom*

    For a zionist, you're not very smart.
    Actually, grammatically, it is better to say "who" than "whom". What you are doing is called "estate agenting": making words longer than they need to be. Look it up.

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    (Original post by merrill)
    Do Jews have a right to a homeland?

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    A good question. Do the English?

    I ask because the present political class and opinion formers hold that no white Western nation's peoples are permitted the right to a homeland.
    Instead we are told we must become "multicultural" and celebrate "diversity" (embrace our being made a minority in our own country), and if we object we are immediately labelled racist Nazis.

    Under those circumstances, it is ludicrous to expect a Western regime to prop up a Jewish ethno-state. Yet for some reason they still are. One wonders who is actually in charge :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by thesabbath)
    A good question. Do the English?

    I ask because the present political class and opinion formers hold that no white Western nation's peoples are permitted the right to a homeland.
    Instead we are told we must become "multicultural" and celebrate "diversity" (embrace our being made a minority in our own country), and if we object we are immediately labelled racist Nazis.

    Under those circumstances, it is ludicrous to expect a Western regime to prop up a Jewish ethno-state. Yet for some reason they still are. One wonders who is actually in charge :rolleyes:
    Well, actually, if you look around we are seeing a rise in Euroscepticism and a resurgence in the idea of the nation-state. There is about to be a referendum in Scotland precisely to see if the Scots want to create their own nation-state and succeed from a larger union. So I think it's fairly clear that while some may want to see the end of the nation-state, it is still taken for granted as something that is totally acceptable and desirable.
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    (Original post by Lady Comstock)
    And people say Israelis are the genocidal ones!

    Good lucking wiping out a country with nukes and which has America behind it.

    If Israel does not make peace in the long run they will all die there.
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    (Original post by BoddyBuilder)
    If Israel does not make peace in the long run they will all die there.
    As will many others, probably most of the world if it sparks a thermonuclear war.

    Countries with nukes are pretty much invincible, particularly when they have nukes in subs away from the country (as Britain does and as Israel is believed to). What country would nuke Israel knowing that it subs will launch hundreds of nukes against it straight after?

    The only way to cripple a country like Israel is through economic sanctions, but the West hasn't really bothered.
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    (Original post by Lady Comstock)
    As will many others, probably most of the world if it sparks a thermonuclear war.

    Countries with nukes are pretty much invincible, particularly when they have nukes in subs away from the country (as Britain does and as Israel is believed to). What country would nuke Israel knowing that it subs will launch hundreds of nukes against it straight after?

    The only way to cripple a country like Israel is through economic sanctions, but the West hasn't really bothered.

    20% of Israel is Arab, they are surrounded by the west bank and gaza strip which has a high birth rate. Israel has a high birth rate but it is disproportionally among the Hasidic Jews who do ntohing but read the torah all day.

    They need to make peace.
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    (Original post by BoddyBuilder)
    20% of Israel is Arab, they are surrounded by the west bank and gaza strip which has a high birth rate. Israel has a high birth rate but it is disproportionally among the Hasidic Jews who do ntohing but read the torah all day.

    They need to make peace.
    Your desire for mass blood shed in Israel unless they make peace (which means what to you?) is naive. It's not going to happen. If Israel continue to break international law then the solution will be sanctions and possibly international intervention if that fails.

    International sanctions will do a lot more damage than an over-populated Gaza with poor military capabilities ever could.
 
 
 
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