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    (Original post by Birchington)
    Please explain why the state will be a better provider of fuel products and why nationalisation is justified.
    The state doesn't need to make a profit, but private companies do. I can't believe that private companies don't make a profit on fuel or they wouldn't be in the industry.
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    (Original post by O133)
    The state doesn't need to make a profit, but private companies do. I can't believe that private companies don't make a profit on fuel or they wouldn't be in the industry.
    Many companies (airlines for example) have tiny margins but profit from volume. Your essentially spending billions to lower the cost of fuel by about 5% despite the fact that the cost of alternatives such as electric vehicles have started to penetrate the market and mass rollouts of charging stations are expected to start by 2020.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Many companies (airlines for example) have tiny margins but profit from volume. Your essentially spending billions to lower the cost of fuel by about 5% despite the fact that the cost of alternatives such as electric vehicles have started to penetrate the market and mass rollouts of charging stations are expected to start by 2020.
    Hence the research into hydrogen, which is a more practical renewable fuel than electricity, especially if we can get a decent source of biohydrogen.

    It would be much more sensible for batteries to be swapped rather than charged at a petrol station, and we discussed this before publishing the bill, but it would require batteries to be standardised, probably by the EU.
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    (Original post by O133)
    Hence the research into hydrogen, which is a more practical renewable fuel than electricity, especially if we can get a decent source of biohydrogen.

    It would be much more sensible for batteries to be swapped rather than charged at a petrol station, and we discussed this before publishing the bill, but it would require batteries to be standardised, probably by the EU.
    That's not a part of the bill I disagree with.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    That's not a part of the bill I disagree with.
    So this isn't a waste of money on a system that will be defunct in a few years.
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    (Original post by O133)
    So this isn't a waste of money on a system that will be defunct in a few years.
    A change in ownership is still not required though, if you want to nationalize something then go for the national grid. I'm pretty sure they have a 20% margin due to Transco being the sole franchisee.

    Fuel is a competitive market though, a change in ownership I'd not required.
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    (Original post by Birchington)
    Please explain why the state will be a better provider of fuel products and why nationalisation is justified.
    'insert ludicrous defence here' unfortunately since this isn't the real world these policies don't fly flat in their faces.

    You say it's not theft because you will buy it, but will they agree to sell it? If they don't will you force them?
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Many companies (airlines for example) have tiny margins but profit from volume. Your essentially spending billions to lower the cost of fuel by about 5% despite the fact that the cost of alternatives such as electric vehicles have started to penetrate the market and mass rollouts of charging stations are expected to start by 2020.
    Said it better than I ever could.

    If you want to reduce the cost of fuel, fine, we can debate whether that's even a good thing. But this is a implausibly naive way of going about it. There is adequate competition here, there is no reason to believe this is close to worth the cost. O133, your arguments here could apply to the nationalisation of anything- and I and most of the population are social democrats, not communists. It says a lot even the Socialist Party hasn't submitted this as their Bill. It's a no from me.
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    (Original post by Green_Pink)
    It says a lot even the Socialist Party hasn't submitted this as their Bill. It's a no from me.
    The bill didn't go anywhere near the Socialist subforum, so that might explain why it's not a Socialist bill.
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    (Original post by O133)
    The bill didn't go anywhere near the Socialist subforum, so that might explain why it's not a Socialist bill.
    Okay, any particular reason why? Considering you are a commissar.
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    (Original post by Green_Pink)
    Okay, any particular reason why? Considering you are a commissar.
    I did this with nebelbon (yes, seriously) via PM.
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    (Original post by O133)
    I did this with nebelbon (yes, seriously) via PM.
    :eek: Now that's bound to go down well with his UKIP colleagues once he's back.

    Still, doesn't take away from my other points. This is a largely needless nationalisation I've seen little justification for considering the cost of fuel is driven far more by tax than profits.
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    (Original post by O133)
    The state doesn't need to make a profit, but private companies do. I can't believe that private companies don't make a profit on fuel or they wouldn't be in the industry.
    Yes but you're targeting the wrong part of the industry, you want the crude oi producers and refiners not the pump, how can you lower prices at the pump? Also lower taxes, quickest way to reduce prices for consumers.
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    This is in cessation.
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