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isnt feminism pointless now women are basicaly equal? watch

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    Want equality, be a humanist. Pretty simple ****.
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    (Original post by Sanctimonious)
    Oh and all of that is down to sexism is it? Nothing to do with men taking certain jobs - for example, loads of women put off STEM subjects at university like computing. Software engineers etc get paid on average a lot more.


    If you feel that way then move there and practice what you preach on the streets of Saudi Arabia.



    Please do not pretend as if you're some holy beacon of gender focused freedom for women around the world. Anyone can talk the talk but its a difference walking the walk. If you feel that way then go and help them.


    You were given the vote almost 100 years ago. Good grief, it didn't even affect the two generations before you so please do not use this as any sort of evidence for modern world oppression. You are not owed anything because of that and I will not accept being condemned by feminists for the actions of our ancestors.


    Maybe, but it does it through the means of oppressing and belittling of men. The Black Panther movement was the pursuit of racial equality but did it through the means of violence. The end goal doesn't necessarily always justify the journey and actions taken to get there.


    This will always be the case in the majority because its human nature and influenced by genetics. What you're wishing for is a utopian civilisation that goes completely against the natural laws of which humans are defined.


    More than 40% of domestic violence victims are males. The statistics aren't that far off from being equal in all fairness and they're just the reported cases.


    Point addressed above.



    And women themselves play up to these ideals and always will: models, pornography actresses, etc. and whilst people are getting paid and given a living this will again not change. This is again another ideal you are hoping for.


    No we really don't. Third world countries may but we don't here.


    Third world countries where real oppression of women takes place



    We do NOT want to be the victims of a small minority of women who think we are inferior to them. It works both ways. You are most indefinitely playing the victim. Also, due to human nature, as explained earlier, these men will always exist and your notion that 'a small minority give the rest a bad name' is as illogical and is not a legitimate excuse to label all men.


    It is always the fault of the person carrying out the attack although someone putting themselves in such a vulnerable state, regardless of gender, is a moron. I've seen men lying on kerbs on nights out and they could easily be mugged or beat up on the way home. This is down to individual idiocy rather than a gender focused problem. However, the blame still lies with the person carrying out the crime against them.


    There are ample reasons for why this is the case plus the notion that a wage gap will never exist is nothing more than another utopian ideal because inevitably businesses are run by people, people employ people and direct and indirect discrimination take place and both genders do it. The world is full of ********s with their own warped opinions - you are not going to change that im afraid to break it to you - get real.


    This statement is actually evidence to suggest otherwise.


    Women objectify men too all the time. /non argument.
    It would seem you can do a STEM degree and still communicate well .

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    (Original post by paradoxicalme)
    uuuuurgh

    It would be apparent that you a) are a little deluded as to the state of gender equality in the UK and b) judge what feminism is after the few crazy *****es who think that men are metaphorical rapists by virtue of having a penis.

    Yes, gender equality is much better than it used to be. We can vote now and everything. And that is mostly down to feminism. Feminism is literally the pursuit of gender equality. That's its dictionary definition. It's not saying that men are horrible or women are better than men. It's after gender equality. And debunking stupid stereotypes helps men too. For instance, the whole stereotype that 'man = strong, woman = precious fragile flower' means that men suffering from domestic abuse are scared to speak out.

    Sexual assault, domestic abuse and sexual harassment are still big problems that primarily, though not exclusively, affect women. There is still a wage gap. There is still a lot of sexist ideals held by the media and by society that primarily, though not exclusively, affect women.

    We still need feminism. We just don't need it as much as we did in the 1880s. And in certain third world countries, people need feminism just as much as we needed it in the 1880s.

    We're not after special treatment, we're not after playing the victim. We just don't want to BE victims of the small minority of men that think we are inferior to them, or they have a right to have sex with us, and who are giving the majority a bad name.

    As for the girl getting hammered, I agree that women should use their common sense and it's just generally not a good idea to get into that vulnerable a state. However, I refuse to believe that if she gets assaulted it is her fault. It is completely the fault of the person (it could be a woman but it's more likely to be a man) who sees her and thinks 'this person is unconscious. I am now going to penetrate her without her consent.' That is entirely their decision.
    The 'wage gap' doesn't exist. For under 30s in full time employment, women now outearn men.

    What tends to happen as people get older is that after women have children, they choose to stay at home and look after them rather than go back to work - or only go back part time. This is true in the most gender egalitarian countries in the world, such as Sweden - where maternity leave is given as a block of time to be shared as the couple want it between the husband and wife. Even there, women predominantly prefer to put their career on hold and look after the kids, while the man returns to work. In post-maternal employment, in fact, Sweden has considerably lower participation rates than countries such as the UK or the USA.

    Feminism is meant to given women choice, right? If you insist on enforcing women 'getting back to work' ASAP after having kids, that seems to me to be more restrictive, not less.

    Moreover, more men go into highly paid areas of work in engineering, computing and finance - because they also dominate Maths, Engineering and Computer Science degrees. This is not just down to social pressures: there is considerable psychological literature demonstrating a correlation between testosterone exposure in the womb and interest in inanimate systems even within genders (also inversely correlated to empathy and verbal development). Moreover the most gender egalitarian countries in the world - Norway, Sweden, Germany - have some of the most skewed gender ratios. Gender ratios are much more balanced in countries where getting a scientific degree is a prerequisite to escaping poverty: hence much higher percentages of female engineers in far less egalitarian countries, such as India and Iran.

    Where men and women are given free choice, they tend to make different decisions. They have different outlooks and priorities in life, on average. The genders are different not just physically but neuropsychologically as well - this is the scientifically mainstream view. Feminism needs to take this on board and not expect equal outcomes for every aspect of life. Otherwise it restricts the very freedoms and liberties it claims to fight for.

    Let me summarise the 'wage gap' argument for you in these terms: it's rather like the arguments that Cambridge are biased against state school students because fewer than their proportion of the population get entry.
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    (Original post by GeorgeBradford)
    sorry but everywhere I look in society, women basically have equal rights with men. Women are treated equally at any important level (like in the law) - surely they have little to complain about?

    its obvious feminism has gone too far. a man can hardly approach a woman now before being accused as a rapist. Many gestures seen as romantic in many other countries would be classed as sexual assault in the uk. if a woman decided to get hammered and gets assaulted, apparently it's in no way her fault because women have a right to drink, therefore they can disregard their own safety.

    it's about time feminism, with its stereotyping of men as power-hungry sexual predators and women as innocent victims, changed its agenda to suit reality and not what its followers percieve.
    So you're saying that if a woman's drunk, she's fair game and should be raped?

    This is why we need feminism.

    By the way- I've seen people condemn a woman who's been raped whilst drunk because she was drunk but excuse a drunk rapist's actions.
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    (Original post by All_TheCyanide)
    So you're saying that if a woman's drunk, she's fair game and should be raped?

    This is why we need feminism.

    By the way- I've seen people condemn a woman who's been raped whilst drunk because she was drunk but excuse a drunk rapist's actions.
    He didn't say that at all, lol
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    (Original post by All_TheCyanide)
    So you're saying that if a woman's drunk, she's fair game and should be raped?

    This is why we need feminism.

    By the way- I've seen people condemn a woman who's been raped whilst drunk because she was drunk but excuse a drunk rapist's actions.
    I think it depends on how much alcohol they have had if there yes/consent can be taken seriously; a drink or two is fine.

    Again in the case you supposedly have experience with we'd need to know the details and who cares if some idiots condemn her? The law will have it's justice; if justice is needed.
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    (Original post by All_TheCyanide)
    So you're saying that if a woman's drunk, she's fair game and should be raped?

    This is why we need feminism.

    By the way- I've seen people condemn a woman who's been raped whilst drunk because she was drunk but excuse a drunk rapist's actions.
    I think what he meant was, girls shouldn't get themselves in a position where they're extremely vulnerable(drunk/off their tits/ close to passing out). It doesn't mean she should be raped but it means she too should be just as responsible as others around her. This doesn't mean that only she is in the wrong, but both parties are in the wrong. What you are saying is that only the man is in the wrong. She doesn't deserve it, but she shouldn't be in that state just in case.
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    (Original post by SandmanMMA)
    I think what he meant was, girls shouldn't get themselves in a position where they're extremely vulnerable(drunk/off their tits/ close to passing out). It doesn't mean she should be raped but it means she too should be just as responsible as others around her. This doesn't mean that only she is in the wrong, but both parties are in the wrong. What you are saying is that only the man is in the wrong. She doesn't deserve it, but she shouldn't be in that state just in case.
    Uh, what. So you are saying woman can't drink? Stay sober just in case you might be raped?

    This is the sort of fear woman have. Car keys between the knuckles sort of stuff.

    That's why feminism is still relevant. Men are not made to feel this way.

    Because people like you think its acceptable to tell woman what to do and how to act.
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    (Original post by keano2014)
    Uh, what. So you are saying woman can't drink? Stay sober just in case you might be raped?

    This is the sort of fear woman have. Car keys between the knuckles sort of stuff.

    That's why feminism is still relevant. Men are not made to feel this way.

    Because people like you think its acceptable to tell woman what to do and how to act.
    No that's bull****, you obviously didn't read what I said. I said they shouldn't get so drunk to the stage where they're vulnerable, not that they can't drink. That stage, where a girl is absolutely out of her head makes her more likely to get attacked or raped. Same goes for guy, the amount of men who have got to that stage and have been robbed and beaten up is large(I've seen this case happen first hand). This is why you aren't relevant, and nor are your comments. If you miss read what I type then that's cool. But you then out of nowhere claim things that I didn't say to be my opinion which shows two things:

    1) You're looking for any excuse to argue(most feminazi's are like this e.g. the red haired crazy one on youtube who has no respect and loves a good argument)
    2) You seriously are not capable of seeing two people doing two stupid things makes them both stupid and not just one of them.

    A girl who gets drunk all the time and loves to get "paralytic" has two things she needs to sort her: her personal life and her priorities. Does she honestly want to get completely off her face that she's vulnerable enough to get raped and not remember only to find a video of it later when she wakes up? To me that's a stupid decision. Why I say personal life is because most people who get stupidly drunk often have damaged personal lives such as bad parental relationships, bad experiences growing up, bad friendship groups, peer pressure etc. Otherwise you wouldn't do that. It's the same if you smoke weed all day everyday or sniff coke. These things are used to numb the pain temporarily.

    You also need to look at how many drunk rapes actually happen, how common are they?
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    I'll try and use a similar analogy to the issue of rape and clothing/drinking. I live in Watford, and I support Watford FC. If I decide to go into Luton for some reason, and wear my bright yellow Watford FC shirt, I am putting myself at a much higher risk of being assaulted. Nobody deserves to be assaulted, and the person who is to blame for the assault is the person doing the assault, but I, the victim in this case, could have behaved in a more sensible way, to reduce the risk of myself being a victim of a crime.

    In the case of getting really drunk whilst dressing in a revealing way, nobody deserves to be raped, but you would be less at risk if you chose to not get too drunk to put yourself at risk. In a perfect world, there would be no crime, but we don't live in a perfect world, and compromises have to be made.

    Finally, can we stop the mantra of "boys should be taught rape is wrong". Talking about consent and alcohol along with other domestic issues should be taught to both genders at school in my opinion, but you can't simply tell someone to not go and rape someone. Rapists know rape is wrong, but they do it anyway.
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    (Original post by andrew2209)
    I'll try and use a similar analogy to the issue of rape and clothing/drinking. I live in Watford, and I support Watford FC. If I decide to go into Luton for some reason, and wear my bright yellow Watford FC shirt, I am putting myself at a much higher risk of being assaulted. Nobody deserves to be assaulted, and the person who is to blame for the assault is the person doing the assault, but I, the victim in this case, could have behaved in a more sensible way, to reduce the risk of myself being a victim of a crime.

    In the case of getting really drunk whilst dressing in a revealing way, nobody deserves to be raped, but you would be less at risk if you chose to not get too drunk to put yourself at risk. In a perfect world, there would be no crime, but we don't live in a perfect world, and compromises have to be made.

    Finally, can we stop the mantra of "boys should be taught rape is wrong". Talking about consent and alcohol along with other domestic issues should be taught to both genders at school in my opinion, but you can't simply tell someone to not go and rape someone. Rapists know rape is wrong, but they do it anyway.
    Perfect analogy
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    (Original post by ClickItBack)
    The 'wage gap' doesn't exist. For under 30s in full time employment, women now outearn men.

    What tends to happen as people get older is that after women have children, they choose to stay at home and look after them rather than go back to work - or only go back part time. This is true in the most gender egalitarian countries in the world, such as Sweden - where maternity leave is given as a block of time to be shared as the couple want it between the husband and wife. Even there, women predominantly prefer to put their career on hold and look after the kids, while the man returns to work. In post-maternal employment, in fact, Sweden has considerably lower participation rates than countries such as the UK or the USA.

    Feminism is meant to given women choice, right? If you insist on enforcing women 'getting back to work' ASAP after having kids, that seems to me to be more restrictive, not less.

    Moreover, more men go into highly paid areas of work in engineering, computing and finance - because they also dominate Maths, Engineering and Computer Science degrees. This is not just down to social pressures: there is considerable psychological literature demonstrating a correlation between testosterone exposure in the womb and interest in inanimate systems even within genders (also inversely correlated to empathy and verbal development). Moreover the most gender egalitarian countries in the world - Norway, Sweden, Germany - have some of the most skewed gender ratios. Gender ratios are much more balanced in countries where getting a scientific degree is a prerequisite to escaping poverty: hence much higher percentages of female engineers in far less egalitarian countries, such as India and Iran.

    Where men and women are given free choice, they tend to make different decisions. They have different outlooks and priorities in life, on average. The genders are different not just physically but neuropsychologically as well - this is the scientifically mainstream view. Feminism needs to take this on board and not expect equal outcomes for every aspect of life. Otherwise it restricts the very freedoms and liberties it claims to fight for.

    Let me summarise the 'wage gap' argument for you in these terms: it's rather like the arguments that Cambridge are biased against state school students because fewer than their proportion of the population get entry.
    PRSOM. You make a compelling argument. A wage gap does still exist in less developed countries, but I agree with you here. Girls often criticise feminism because 'I want to be a stay at home mother!' and whilst I think that's bunk - feminism gives women a choice, it doesn't force them into one path or another - sometimes some feminists can be overly judgmental of people who don't go down what they believe is the 'empowering' path.

    What about the domestic abuse and sexual assault parts of my argument? Someone has put at me that 40% of domestic abuse victims are men, but I don't think that makes feminism unnecessary - a) the 60% need it and b) the 40% need it too, because breaking down gender stereotypes of women also attacks them in men.
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    (Original post by andrew2209)
    I'll try and use a similar analogy to the issue of rape and clothing/drinking. I live in Watford, and I support Watford FC. If I decide to go into Luton for some reason, and wear my bright yellow Watford FC shirt, I am putting myself at a much higher risk of being assaulted. Nobody deserves to be assaulted, and the person who is to blame for the assault is the person doing the assault, but I, the victim in this case, could have behaved in a more sensible way, to reduce the risk of myself being a victim of a crime.

    In the case of getting really drunk whilst dressing in a revealing way, nobody deserves to be raped, but you would be less at risk if you chose to not get too drunk to put yourself at risk. In a perfect world, there would be no crime, but we don't live in a perfect world, and compromises have to be made.

    Finally, can we stop the mantra of "boys should be taught rape is wrong". Talking about consent and alcohol along with other domestic issues should be taught to both genders at school in my opinion, but you can't simply tell someone to not go and rape someone. Rapists know rape is wrong, but they do it anyway.
    Excellent argument, although I would add that not all rapists know that rape is wrong - or they only know it in a superficial sort of way; if you asked them 'is rape wrong' they'd say 'yes' but they don't truly believe it because they feel entitled to the opposite gender. That might be because they think girls are sex objects or they think boys always want to have sex and so having sex with them is a right.
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    (Original post by Birkenhead)
    Guardian articles aren't, no. Independent sources on genuine employment disparities which acknowledge all possible reasons are.
    By which you mean 'sources that agree with my political bias'

    That article is based off a report by these guys.

    http://www.oecd.org/about/

    You are making it sound like the Guardian carries out it's own surveys or owns the organization that does. They are more likely to publish findings made by 'independent sources' that support the papers political stance since that is how newspapers work. I know it is much easier to go hurr durr guardian feminazis.
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    (Original post by doctor101)
    This is the first time i'm going to stand up for feminism because what you have just written is incredibly ignorant and DUMB.

    They are not paid the same as us (assuming you're a guy) for the same skills, they earn 15% less in the U.K. - how is that fair?
    If these 'romantic' gestures are classed as sexual assault I doubt they're romantic and acceptable in western society -can you name a few?

    wait this is the dumbest part tho....

    '..if a woman decided to get hammered and gets assaulted, apparently it's in no way her fault because women have a right to drink, therefore they can disregard their own safety....'

    how does getting drunk relate to being assaulted? by her being drunk she hasn't asked someone to assault her, by her being drunk she hasn't consented to someone touching her, if a women is drunk it doesn't give me permission to touch her....
    You see my mind isn't primitive, I am not an animal, I can control myself so if i see a girl drunk i won't jump her or assault her in any way. If this is really your view and your not a troll i actually fear for humanity...eeek...
    WE STILL NEED FEMINISM. I agree 100%


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    They don't want equality, they want privileges, they are just hiding behind equal rights. they are sly.
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    I need feminism because I need something to laugh at
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    (Original post by manchesterunited15)
    cringe
    Yeah so "cringe" about women all across the globe in present 2014 still being forced into arrange marriages, denied education, being shot for wanting an education, acid attacks and gang rapes in India and police not doing anything, women being publicly hung for leaving their abusive husbands. I support feminism for those reasons the fact that there is still these things happening. Feminism is not about wanting to be better than men, it's about being equal to. Women deserve the right to have an education, be free, have choice, have a say, have a vote and all across the world, still to this day that is not the case. Men all across the globe are still being treated badly with enforced stereotyping, Men are forced to work, women do the cleaning.


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    It seems like feminisim is more interested in crying on social media about 'being judged for what they wear' instead of real female issues (see developing countries where 1 in 3 men admit to raping, and where women are stoned to death for seeking education). Until this changes, I'll never take first world feminism seriously. If women in the UK think they have hard lives, they are truely blind and entitled. Feminism is no longer needed in the developed world.
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    (Original post by andrew2209)
    I'll try and use a similar analogy to the issue of rape and clothing/drinking. I live in Watford, and I support Watford FC. If I decide to go into Luton for some reason, and wear my bright yellow Watford FC shirt, I am putting myself at a much higher risk of being assaulted. Nobody deserves to be assaulted, and the person who is to blame for the assault is the person doing the assault, but I, the victim in this case, could have behaved in a more sensible way, to reduce the risk of myself being a victim of a crime.

    In the case of getting really drunk whilst dressing in a revealing way, nobody deserves to be raped, but you would be less at risk if you chose to not get too drunk to put yourself at risk. In a perfect world, there would be no crime, but we don't live in a perfect world, and compromises have to be made.

    Finally, can we stop the mantra of "boys should be taught rape is wrong". Talking about consent and alcohol along with other domestic issues should be taught to both genders at school in my opinion, but you can't simply tell someone to not go and rape someone. Rapists know rape is wrong, but they do it anyway.
    We still need feminism in our lives and all across the globe. I agree with what you're saying


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