Is Being a Vegan/Vegetarian Healthier? Watch

Rakas21
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#61
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#61
(Original post by Hal.E.Lujah)
Being Vegan is quite extremely unhealthy to be honest. Vegetarians are usually healthy but often have diet related problems. Oh and for the record, being omnivorous is technically quite unhealthy too.

But it's quite problematic trying to find any statistical evidence for or against diets, as the golden rule of modern medicine is that the sponsor always gets the answer they want. So studies show whatever the people who paid for them want, i.e. the Atkins diet being healthy. So it's all just inane babble really that we can't answer.
It's all about variety with a vegetarian diet i believe. In the modern world where we import, there's no reason any of them should have a nutrition deficiency.. but you have to make sure you've got enough variety to ensure that.
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WolfBird
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#62
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(Original post by XMaramena)
Not true, just not true. You're either approaching this one of two, both very closed-minded ways. The first being that that eggs are "living beings" and eating them is slaughtering them (which is a discussion for a different topic alongside abortion ethics), or that you're associating the dairy only with farms that slaughter animals for meat once they stop producing enough milk or eggs.

There are many places that farm organic eggs and milk, and when the animals stop producing those things, they simply keep on living a happy life in the pastures until their natural time comes.
What about the male chicks born in the hatchery? The calves born at a dairy farm? The males get killed because they are of no use to those industries. I am in no way implying eggs are lives. Also majority of dairy farms send the cows to slaughter after they stop producing milk. Organic has nothing to do with it.

"a happy life in the pastures," since when was being treated like property a happy life.
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XMaramena
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#63
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(Original post by WolfBird)
What about the male chicks born in the hatchery? The calves born at a dairy farm? The males get killed because they are of no use to those industries. I am in no way implying eggs are lives. Also majority of dairy farms send the cows to slaughter after they stop producing milk. Organic has nothing to do with it.

"a happy life in the pastures," since when was being treated like property a happy life.
No, the male chicks are not killed in these particular establishments. And pretty much all of these farms are organic.
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WolfBird
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#64
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(Original post by XMaramena)
No, the male chicks are not killed in these particular establishments. And pretty much all of these farms are organic.
Then where do they go? The establishment cannot tell if a chick is going to be male or female before it hatches. And millions of male chicks aren't going to feed themselves. It would be very costly to keep them alive and waste space they could be using for profit.

Unless the farms you're talking about are tiny and produce only small quantities for themselves and a few others, it's extremely unlikely that there is no slaughter. And still unlikely even on those tiny farms. Those male calves will grow up and they live quite long, constantly impregnating females produces more and more... I reckon they'd run out of land if they let them all "die naturally."

The very vast majority of dairy and eggs do come from places where the male chicks and calves are killed though, and their mother eventually. Supporting those industries also directly supports the meat industry, dairy being responsible for most veal.

It is impossible for those minority of farms you mentioned to provide enough for the human race. And even if they could, it still doesn't justify animal enslavement.

Organic just means the animal wasn't fed chemicals. It has nothing to do with the treatment of the animals.
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XMaramena
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(Original post by WolfBird)
Then where do they go? The establishment cannot tell if a chick is going to be male or female before it hatches. And millions of male chicks aren't going to feed themselves. It would be very costly to keep them alive and waste space they could be using for profit.

Unless the farms you're talking about are tiny and produce only small quantities for themselves and a few others, it's extremely unlikely that there is no slaughter. And still unlikely even on those tiny farms. Those male calves will grow up and they live quite long, constantly impregnating females produces more and more... I reckon they'd run out of land if they let them all "die naturally."

The very vast majority of dairy and eggs do come from places where the male chicks and calves are killed though, and their mother eventually. Supporting those industries also directly supports the meat industry, dairy being responsible for most veal.

It is impossible for those minority of farms you mentioned to provide enough for the human race. And even if they could, it still doesn't justify animal enslavement.

Organic just means the animal wasn't fed chemicals. It has nothing to do with the treatment of the animals.
I perfectly understand the concept of "Organic", and if you were to be technically speaking, Organic would mean a lot more than just the type of animal feed.

Yes, there are just a few farms around that practise this, but these are the farms I use for my produce. In my family, we're very big on conservation, eco-sustainability and following our diets according to natural symbiosis. I would have thought I was clear in my opening statement that I am not referring to "all farms", I am referring to a very select few that I go to as a vegetarian.

You evidently did not read my original posts, since to appear to be under the impression I believe all farms in the world are humane and righteous in their practises. And there is a difference between animal enslavement and animal use.

I can see you are so far up your ass on this matter, I'm not going to bother looking back on this thread.

Note to your older, wiser self: It's okay, you were young and naive, we all have strong views when we're students, I never took it personally.
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41b
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#66
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#66
Plants can tell when they're being eaten.

So what will vegans eat now??
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matthewduncan
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#67
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each individual is different.
Obviously race,sex,hereditory illnesses play a factor this is what people dont get.
See it if it works for you
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Dilzo999
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#68
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#68
(Original post by BKS)
My sister is vegan and properly huge fat, she lives on ice cream, chips, cake and potato.
Doesn't ice cream and cake contain dairy and eggs?
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WolfBird
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#69
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#69
(Original post by XMaramena)
I perfectly understand the concept of "Organic", and if you were to be technically speaking, Organic would mean a lot more than just the type of animal feed.

Yes, there are just a few farms around that practise this, but these are the farms I use for my produce. In my family, we're very big on conservation, eco-sustainability and following our diets according to natural symbiosis. I would have thought I was clear in my opening statement that I am not referring to "all farms", I am referring to a very select few that I go to as a vegetarian.

You evidently did not read my original posts, since to appear to be under the impression I believe all farms in the world are humane and righteous in their practises. And there is a difference between animal enslavement and animal use.

I can see you are so far up your ass on this matter, I'm not going to bother looking back on this thread.

Note to your older, wiser self: It's okay, you were young and naive, we all have strong views when we're students, I never took it personally.
Yes, I was simply pointing out that a farm being organic has nothing to do with the animal's treatment. Unless the animal catches a disease, then they are usually killed because antibiotics aren't to be used.

I was only responding to what you said about leather not fitting into a vegetarian lifestyle due to animal slaughter, unlike dairy and eggs. The majority of vegetarians who eat dairy and eggs buy them from big farms with the practices we already discussed, and if they don't agree with animal slaughter then that technically doesn't fit in with the vegetarian lifestyle either. What I said was not directly to you, but vegetarians as a whole.

Not very much. We own animals, and as our property that means we have the right to give them whatever value we choose and use them as a mere means to our ends.

I'm really not, nothing I have said is untrue. But okay.

You don't have to be a young student to have a strong view, nor does that make it any less valid than an older person's view. To be wise doesn't come with just age.
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WolfBird
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#70
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#70
(Original post by Dilzo999)
Doesn't ice cream and cake contain dairy and eggs?
There is vegan ice cream and cake made without dairy and eggs. It's very yummy.
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WolfBird
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#71
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(Original post by 41b)
Plants can tell when they're being eaten.

So what will vegans eat now??
Plants aren't sentient and don't have a central nervous system.

But being vegan actually kills less plants than eating meat.
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BKS
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#72
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#72
(Original post by Dilzo999)
Doesn't ice cream and cake contain dairy and eggs?
They can but there are vegan versions
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Kaylaleigh
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I was a vegetarian, then a vegan, for a long while. I felt healthy and energized as a vegan, because I made sure to eat a balanced diet with sources of protein, fibre, minerals and vitamins etc. I did take iron too, but even many meat eaters require iron, I never actually tested for iron levels though so maybe I didn't even need it. I also lost loads of weight but I was also counting calories but always kept at 1800 so I was eating loads.

It also taught me to cook and appreciate ingredients more.

I eat meat again, though I avoid it and don't tend to buy it for myself. I think being a vegan made me more healthy because it's hard to find cakes and stuff and forces you to cook from scratch more. I had to think about food choices. I don't think being a meat eater is necessarily more healthy, and vice versa. It bugs me when people instantly assume that vegetarians and especially vegans must be anemic and weedy and lacking in nutrients.
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Isobel McLeod
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#74
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(Original post by BreakingBadx)
If you eat a vegan or vegetarian diet and get enough protein, then is that still healthier than a normal healthy balanced diet where you get enough fruit/vegetables?

A friend of mine (hipster vegetarian guy) says that animal sources of protein are unhealthier, not sheriff srs though.
Its not necessarily healthy, depending if you eat fairly average portions and cook your food in a healthier way- e.g. not frying. I have always been a vegetarian and as i have grown up, i have found many sources of protein and ways in which i can involve them in my daily toutine. Althoguh i dont know much about meat, i do know that certain types of meat are more unhealthy than others, therefore i would try and avoid those. A diet that is quite popular at the moment is to eat how our ancestors did- basic whole foods- which would of course include meat as a staple. Personally, i enjoy being a vegetarian and how encourage everyone to do so, but dont do it just because its trendy, do it because you want to
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big_dreamer
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#75
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I am a vegan myself, I would say that it would lean you towards eating healthier but not always as you can still eat dairy free ice creams and cakes but not always as fattening.
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Kathy89
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#76
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I am vegan for two years and never been healthier. I became vegan because it is a healthier lifestyle. Also most of my diet is raw food and I try to cut out gluten as much as possible.
Protein is not a problem at all. Anything contains protein in certain level. Raw fruits and veggies contain enough protein on their own. Whole grains and beans are a great source of protein as well.
The only problem is B12 which you can add from chlorela or Brewers' Yeast.
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Ggmu!
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#77
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I'm alive and I'm as healthy as anyone. Anyone who says you can't be 100% healthy as a vegetarian is talking out of their arse.

Posted from TSR Mobile
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Kaylaleigh
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#78
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(Original post by Kathy89)
The only problem is B12 which you can add from chlorela or Brewers' Yeast.
I read this as cholera at first
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ch0c0h01ic
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#79
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(Original post by XMaramena)
Not true, just not true. You're either approaching this one of two, both very closed-minded ways. The first being that that eggs are "living beings" and eating them is slaughtering them (which is a discussion for a different topic alongside abortion ethics), or that you're associating the dairy only with farms that slaughter animals for meat once they stop producing enough milk or eggs.
Actually she is right on the money.

In the instance of laying hens commercial hatcheries sex the birds at a day old and the vast majority of the males are euthanised. Sure some are used as breeding animals but it is a tiny minority of the overall total. It is a similar picture at the farm level. While a few cocks are kept on most are separated from the hens at a couple of weeks old and either euthanised at this point or raised separately for the sub prime meat market (ie; for use in takeaways, ready meals, restaurants).

In the instance of dairy cows bull calves are separated from the heifer calves at one to two days of age. Occasionally a bull calf may be kept for breeding purposes but it is rare, most people buy in breeding bulls or bull semen to promote hybrid vigor. At around a week old these bull calves will either be euthanised or sold to be raised for the sub prime beef (or even veal) market.

There are many places that farm organic eggs and milk, and when the animals stop producing those things, they simply keep on living a happy life in the pastures until their natural time comes.
It is a lovely idea but unfortunately it is largely a fantasy.

I know of farms that kept the odd sheep, chicken, pig or cow on past it's commercial life as pets but we are talking about a tiny minority of overall animals. Sure I know of a few "hobby" farmers where the proportion of "pet" farm animals is significantly higher but the vast majority still send or sell a proportion of their animals for slaughter. Even the vast majority of college, charity and community run farms are run on a commercial basis these days.

If you are going to be pedantic, sure if you scoured the whole country you could probably find "many" but realistically we are talking about a tiny amount in relative terms.

Organic farming has nothing to do with the issue - it is simply a list of conditions to meet to promote greater environmental sustainability. Sure some accrediting bodies try to promote animal health and welfare but certainly not all. Equally the vast majority of Organic farms still routinely use antibiotics, herbicides and so forth, they just need proper authorisation to do so (eg; permission from a vet or agricultural consultant) and they tend to have longer drug withdrawal periods.

As far as hobby farms go standards vary massively. Sure there are some incredibly knowledgeable hobby farmers and small holders, equally there are plenty with dubious standards of animal health and welfare. Some I would even go as far as to say endanger human health. The scary thing is that many people have more confidence in small scale non commercial producers.

To give you some examples...One smallholder I know made a couple of his cows blind by feeding them surplus pig food deficient in vitamin A. A former neighbour of mine used a drug banned for use in hatching hens on his small backyard flock and yet continued to supply his friends with "Organic" eggs. A former client with a small flock of pet sheep called me in when she had a run of sudden deaths. Investigation revealed severe worm infestation throughout the flock which was complicated by the fact that the owner had no experience of keeping sheep or routine worm control.

The irony (if you can call it that) is that in every case of the above these people were held in very high regard for the quality of their produce and their standards of animal health and welfare in the local community!

The reality is that you don't really know what you're buying unless you're producing it yourself or the people involved are independently regulated to a high level.
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jaquele
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#80
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i kno its a bit late, but i don't really see the point of vegetarianism. Not to be mean, but the animals you pick up at the supermarket are dead, and you not eating them is not going to sop them from being produced. By eating them at least you don't put their life to waste, because they will be disposed of otherwise.

Plus protein is essential, and the form it is in when it is found from an animal is natural and pure. Lack of natural protein can cause many problems including improper growth of your baby in the womb. Tofu products contain hydrogenated vegetable fats, which are byproducts of monosodium glutamate, this can cause brain damage.
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