Black people and asians(pakistanis,Indians,bengal is etc) will you Watch

Yawn!
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#61
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#61
(Original post by Eva.Gregoria)
I agree with everyone's point that british lives should't mean more than the lives of those they killed but if you are going to live in this country, why not respect the soldiers of the country you live in?
The sentiment works well in theory. But for some POC, etc, their experiences may make them cynical.

For example. I was walking down the street and a female soldier in full army uniform was walking toward me. Well ahead of time, I moved to the left, but she stayed in the middle of the pavement, and shoulder barged me as we passed. I was much taller so it didn't exactly send me flying or anything, but the intention was pretty clear.

On another occasion a pair of soldiers (again in uniform) were coming towards me down a train aisle, smiling and seemingly in a good mood. As soon as they saw me, their smiles disappeared and for most of the trip, till they got off, they kept throwing looks at me from the seats opposite.

Funny thing is I'm not muslim, but I'm Indian-origin, so I ''look the part'. Yet whenever I see British soldiers, I feel uncomfortable, because they don't seem the brightest bunch.

That said I've never said a thing against them, and I haven't any immediate plans to do so. I just won't go out of my way to celebrate a group that seems in many ways hostile and racist.
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Eva.Gregoria
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#62
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#62
(Original post by TIATA)
I don't know, maybe because not all soldiers are respectable?

What makes soldiers so different from other people that they must have blanket respect? Nada. Sure they put themselves at great risk, but they also get paid.
Ok, so your issue is with all soldiers? Fair point and no one says you have to respect any soldiers but if you're going to, you might as well respect the soldiers of the country you live in and are a citizen of.

Yeah they do get paid, but they can only enjoy that money if they're alive. Which a lot of the time...they're not. Somebody has to do it, if they don't fight for their country, no one will and money is not enough of an incentive to make me put my life at risk like that.
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TIATA
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#63
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#63
(Original post by Ggmu!)
Because in the end the armed forces will be the ones who face the fire to defend this country and it's citizens. You're not going to pick up a gun and defend this nation.
I'm sure many people would find the courage too, if our way of life was immediately under threat via occupation. Going to fight overseas so some politician can look like a hard man is not the same thing. When has Britain legitimately been at threat of occupation since the end of the Second World War?

It was the veterans of this nation that defended it against the Nazis.
And many of those veterans were conscipted during the First World War. What's your point?
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TIATA
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#64
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#64
(Original post by Eva.Gregoria)
Ok, so your issue is with all soldiers? Fair point and no one says you have to respect any soldiers but if you're going to, you might as well respect the soldiers of the country you live in and are a citizen of.

Yeah they do get paid, but they can only enjoy that money if they're alive. Which a lot of the time...they're not. Somebody has to do it, if they don't fight for their country, no one will and money is not enough of an incentive to make me put my life at risk like that.
Again, this is the attitude that I disagree with. Why might you as well respect the soldiers of the country you live in? IF I was a non-Nazi German during the Hitler regime, and I heard about what the Army was doing in my name, I would have very little respect for them. There's absolutely no reason why the soldiers of the country you live in deserve your default respect.

If I'm going to respect any soldier, it's the one that puts the life of civilians first and foremost. And it doesn't matter to me what country they reside in.

A soldier like this!!
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Eva.Gregoria
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#65
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#65
(Original post by Yawn!)
The sentiment works well in theory. But for some POC, etc, their experiences may make them cynical.

For example. I was walking down the street and a female soldier in full army uniform was walking toward me. Well ahead of time, I moved to the left, but she stayed in the middle of the pavement, and shoulder barged me as we passed. I was much taller so it didn't exactly send me flying or anything, but the intention was pretty clear.

On another occasion a pair of soldiers (again in uniform) were coming towards me down a train aisle, smiling and seemingly in a good mood. As soon as they saw me, their smiles disappeared and for most of the trip, till they got off, they kept throwing looks at me from the seats opposite.

Funny thing is I'm not muslim, but I'm Indian-origin, so I ''look the part'. Yet whenever I see British soldiers, I feel uncomfortable, because they don't seem the brightest bunch.

That said I've never said a thing against them, and I haven't any immediate plans to do so. I just won't go out of my way to celebrate a group that seems in many ways hostile and racist.
I totally understand why some people are cynical towards them but we have to remember that our experiences cannot be extrapolated to an entire population of soldiers. Racism does still exist and I experience it myself but then I've had amazing experiences too on the other hand so I just judge each experience on an individual basis.

PS. Always assumed you were black, don't know why.
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Eva.Gregoria
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#66
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#66
(Original post by TIATA)
Again, this is the attitude that I disagree with. Why might you as well respect the soldiers of the country you live in? IF I was a non-Nazi German during the Hitler regime, and I heard about what the Army was doing in my name, I would have very little respect for them. There's absolutely no reason why the soldiers of the country you live in deserve your default respect.

If I'm going to respect any soldier, it's the one that puts the life of civilians first and foremost. And it doesn't matter to me what country they reside in.

A soldier like this!!
All soldiers are bad, end of. Remember soldiers are only following instructions, I don't get how you can respect one but have disdain for others. Even the soldiers in the nazi regime (talking about the lowest ranks not like the generals) were simply following orders.
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TIATA
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#67
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#67
(Original post by Eva.Gregoria)
All soldiers are bad, end of.
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that a soldier doesn't deserve respect simply because he's a soldier.

Remember soldiers are only following instructions, I don't get how you can respect one but have disdain for others. Even the soldiers in the nazi regime (talking about the lowest ranks not like the generals) were simply following orders.
Instructions can be disobeyed. I never once stated that I have disdain for every soldier. I stated that I disagree with the notion that soldiers deserve respect simply for being soldiers, or that you should respect the soldiers of the country you reside in because you reside there. If you were a normal German with no hate for Jews, would you have respected what the Nazi solders were doing in your name?


I don't get how you can respect one but have disdain for others.
If you really don't understand such a simple thing then you're beyond reasoning, and whatever point I make will be missed.

I'll say it again. Not all soldiers are equal, and not all soldiers deserve respect.

The kind of thinking you indulge yourself in would have me respect these soldiers on an equal footing with this man. All are soldiers, but not all of them deserve respect!!!!!!!!!!1
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Eva.Gregoria
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#68
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#68
(Original post by TIATA)
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that a soldier doesn't deserve respect simply because he's a soldier.



Instructions can be disobeyed. I never once stated that I have disdain for every soldier. I stated that I disagree with the notion that soldiers deserve respect simply for being soldiers, or that you should respect the soldiers of the country you reside in because you reside there. If you were a normal German with no hate for Jews, would you have respected what the Nazi solders were doing in your name?
I wouldn't have respected it but I honestly don't agree with your notion that some soldiers are better than another. I personally don't respect soldiers anyway and I doubt I'd have known the full extent of what the nazi soldiers did like we do now to be able to make a proper judgement.

Disobeying instructions then would have cost you your life. Put yourself in their shoes.
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bittr n swt
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#69
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#69
i don't give a **** about the poppy so no
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TIATA
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#70
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#70
(Original post by Eva.Gregoria)
I wouldn't have respected it but I honestly don't agree with your notion that some soldiers are better than another. I personally don't respect soldiers anyway and I doubt I'd have known the full extent of what the nazi soldiers did like we do now to be able to make a proper judgement.

Disobeying instructions then would have cost you your life. Put yourself in their shoes.
BAM! This is the attitude I've being arguing against. It's become so ingrained in you that soldiers are inherently respectful that you can't even bring yourself to say that some deserve more respect than others. That's a shame!

I don't understand how a rational human being would disagree with this simple statement: A soldier that doesn't rape and murder civilians is better than one who does.

If you truly believe that both soldiers are equal then don't respond to me.
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DorianGrayism
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#71
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Tbh, I think I am going to get one on the basis of the number of idiotic reasons I have so far.

IE I am against war or they killed Muslims.
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Eva.Gregoria
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#72
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#72
(Original post by TIATA)
BAM! This is the attitude I've being arguing against. It's become so ingrained in you that soldiers are inherently respectful that you can't even bring yourself to say that some deserve more respect than others. That's a shame!

I don't understand how a rational human being would disagree with this simple statement: A soldier that doesn't rape and murder civilians is better than one who does.

If you truly believe that both soldiers are equal then don't respond to me.
A soldier that rapes and murders innocent civilians is a criminal and that is inherently wrong, don't put words in my mouth. That behaviour is disgusting. That was quite a big jump you made there, are you in the habit of fabricating points out of thin air? Would you still call Harold Shipman, a man speculated to have killed over 250 people a doctor? Just because someone is called a soldier doesn't mean they can commit legal crimes and still retain that title.

Soldiers in general kill people or assist in the killing of people and that is where my lack of respect comes from and my lack of respect applies to all soldiers.

My original point wasn't that people should respect soldiers at all, it was that you can't claim to respect another soldier and then say that british ones aren't worth respecting or aren't worth the same amount of respect. I'm only after consistency here.
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al_94
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#73
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#73
No I've got no intention of wearing one
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TIATA
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#74
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#74
(Original post by Eva.Gregoria)
A soldier that rapes and murders innocent civilians is a criminal and that is inherently wrong, don't put words in my mouth. That behaviour is disgusting. That was quite a big jump you made there, are you in the habit of fabricating points out of thin air? Would you still call Harold Shipman, a man speculated to have killed over 250 people a doctor? Just because someone is called a soldier doesn't mean they can commit legal crimes and still retain that title.

Soldiers in general kill people or assist in the killing of people and that is where my lack of respect comes from and my lack of respect applies to all soldiers.
Where did I fabricate anything?

This is what you said to me:

(Original post by Eva.Gregoria)
I wouldn't have respected it but I honestly don't agree with your notion that some soldiers are better than another. I personally don't respect soldiers anyway and I doubt I'd have known the full extent of what the nazi soldiers did like we do now to be able to make a proper judgement.

Disobeying instructions then would have cost you your life. Put yourself in their shoes.
What do you mean when you say that you don't agree with the notion that some soldiers are better than others then?

I've given an example of a solier acting like a deceont human being and putting his life at risk to save civilians while soldiers from his own side were murdering them. That's an example of a heroic soldier.

I also gave you an example of soldiers acting cowardly, and murdering civilains in cold blood.

Those two example were to support my statement that not all soldiers deserve respect.
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Eva.Gregoria
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#75
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#75
(Original post by TIATA)
Where did I fabricate anything?

This is what you said to me:

What do you mean when you say that you don't agree with the notion that some soldiers are better than others then?
Where in any of my posts did I say that soldiers that raped and murdered innocent civilians were equally as bad as soldiers that didn't? You fabricated that out of thin air. The difference between both soldiers is that one is a criminal, the other is acting in accordance with the law. Last I checked, soldiers aren't prosecuted for lawful killing on the battlefield.

All soldiers are the same (to me at least). Except when they break the law and commit crimes. Do you need to go over what a crime is?
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TIATA
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#76
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#76
(Original post by Eva.Gregoria)
Where in any of my posts did I say that soldiers that raped and murdered innocent civilians were equally as bad as soldiers that didn't? You fabricated that out of thin air. The difference between both soldiers is that one is a criminal, the other is acting in accordance with the law. Last I checked, soldiers aren't prosecuted for lawful killing on the battlefield.

All soldiers are the same (to me at least). Except when they break the law and commit crimes. Do you need to go over what a crime is?
I never said you did. :confused:

I gave an example of a situation where one soldier clearly acted 'better' than another soldier.

I was replying to the part where you siad that you disagree with the notion that some soldiers are better than others.

I guess we might be using the term 'better' in different ways. I was using it to mean a acting in a manner that most people would judge to be morally superior. I'm guessing you're using it in a different way.

BTW
They were both acting in accordance with military law. The ones killing civlians were just following the orders of their higher ups
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Damask-
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#77
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#77
(Original post by Eva.Gregoria)
I agree with everyone's point that british lives should't mean more than the lives of those they killed but if you are going to live in this country, why not respect the soldiers of the country you live in?
OP addressed the thread to non-white people, not non British people. I'm British, my entire family is British, but I'm mixed race. I live in this country but I definitely don't support the illegal wars we fight, nor do I want any part in what has become the politicisation of the poppy from a symbol of remembrance to a pro-war badge.

Why should I respect a soldier any more than I respect a firefighter or a doctor or a teacher?
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Eva.Gregoria
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#78
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#78
(Original post by TIATA)
I never said you did. :confused:

I gave an example of a situation where one soldier clearly acted 'better' than another soldier.

I was replying to the part where you siad that you disagree with the notion that some soldiers are better than others.

I guess we might be using the term 'better' in different ways. I was using it to mean a acting in a manner that most people would judge to be morally superior. I'm guessing you're using it in a different way.

BTW
They were both acting in accordance with military law. The ones killing civlians were just following the orders of their higher ups
The rapists were were instructed to rape from their higher ups?

(Original post by Damask-)
OP addressed the thread to non-white people, not non British people. I'm British, my entire family is British, but I'm mixed race. I live in this country but I definitely don't support the illegal wars we fight, nor do I want any part in what has become the politicisation of the poppy from a symbol of remembrance to a pro-war badge.

Why should I respect a soldier any more than I respect a firefighter or a doctor or a teacher?
Didn't say you should. If you're going to respect a soldier fighting another cause or in another country though, no reason why you can't respect british ones, since all soldiers are the same (if they're not committing crimes like killing innocent civilians or raping people).
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Damask-
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#79
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#79
(Original post by Eva.Gregoria)
Didn't say you should. If you're going to respect a soldier fighting another cause or in another country though, no reason why you can't respect british ones, since all soldiers are the same (if they're not committing crimes like killing innocent civilians or raping people).
I don't particularly support any soldiers, but I'd be a lot more likely to support an army that hadn't partaken in an illegal war for as long as we have.
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Eva.Gregoria
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#80
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#80
(Original post by Damask-)
I don't particularly support any soldiers, but I'd be a lot more likely to support an army that hadn't partaken in an illegal war for as long as we have.
And that would be hypocrytical but I'm not ready to get into another argument.
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