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**** it! I am going to defend Islam!

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Original post by RFUR1
I agree! However you haven't answered my question.


Yes it does.
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Original post by DiddyDec
Yes it does.


No it doesn't. Why can't you answer the question directly?

The West has killed innocent people too. So that means that neither the acts of the West or the Middle East can be justified then?

Just answer with a simple 'yes' or 'no'.
Original post by RFUR1
I haven't defended the killing of apostates based on the morality of the religion. I was pointing out a double standard. Why don't people talk about Christianity allowing the killing of apostates. People need to be consistent. Why was the poster only talking about how Islam believes on the killing and apostates inferring he/she is disgusted by it when Christianity does the same? Why didn't he/she call out Christianity as well. He/she either cares about the killing of apostates which makes Christianity as bad as Islam in this case or he/she doesn't care about the killing of apostates which then means he/she shouldn't have even written the comment in the first place.

I believe innocent people should never be killed!


When was the last time you heard of a Christian being killed for apostasy?

When was the last time you heard of a Muslim being killed for apostasy?

In fact the only countries in the world that still operate apostasy laws are those which have Islam as the state religion.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/05/28/which-countries-still-outlaw-apostasy-and-blasphemy/
Original post by RFUR1
No it doesn't. Why can't you answer the question directly?

The West has killed innocent people too. So that means that neither the acts of the West or the Middle East can be justified then?

Just answer with a simple 'yes' or 'no'.


With the answer:

Original post by DiddyDec
The killing of innocents is never justified.


Never - at no time in the past or future, not ever.

How is that not a clear enough answer?
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Original post by DiddyDec
When was the last time you heard of a Christian being killed for apostasy?

When was the last time you heard of a Muslim being killed for apostasy?

In fact the only countries in the world that still operate apostasy laws are those which have Islam as the state religion.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/05/28/which-countries-still-outlaw-apostasy-and-blasphemy/


The last time an apostate was killed by a Muslim or Christian is irrelevant. Both Christianity and Islam condone it. The majority of Muslims don't kill apostates but are called out on the fact that Islam permits it, by some on TSR, so going by the logic of that poster I can call out Christians as Christianity also condones it.

When Muslims on TSR say that they along with the majority of Muslims don't carry out barbaric acts loads of people on the TSR point to the fact that the Qur'an allows these acts so it doesn't matter whether they do it or not.
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Original post by DiddyDec
With the answer:



Never - at no time in the past or future, not ever.

How is that not a clear enough answer?


So in your opinion the acts of the West and the Middle East cannot be justified. Fair enough.
Original post by RFUR1
The last time an apostate was killed by a Muslim or Christian is irrelevant. Both Christianity and Islam condone it. The majority of Muslims don't kill apostates but are called out on the fact that Islam permits it, by some on TSR, so going by the logic of that poster I can call out Christians as Christianity also condones it.

When Muslims on TSR say that they along with the majority of Muslims don't carry out barbaric acts loads of people on the TSR point to the fact that the Qur'an allows these acts so it doesn't matter whether they do it or not.


It is entirely relevant whether or not people carry out the act.

EDIT: Most of the bible is ignored as it is no longer in line with modern living
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Zargabaath
Why does Islam have such a huge violence issue? Every other major religion/culture has almost totally moved away from such barbaric acts, why is it that Islam cannot do the same?


Lol hav u heard of the westboro baptist church.

Islam is not the reason for the violent acts - every Muslim in the world cannot be held accountable for the violence of some extremists, that's unfair.

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Original post by DiddyDec
It is entirely relevant whether or not people carry out the act.


Not by the logic of some on the TSR when they talk about Muslims. Muslims are individuals. If a Muslim kills an apostate I don't see what that has to do with another Muslim.
"Lo! Those who believe, then disbelieve and then (again) believe, then disbelieve, and then increase in disbelief, Allah will never pardon them, nor will He guide them unto a way (4:137)."
This verse reiterates that man is free to believe or disbelieve and to do so as many times as he wills. God will be the sole judge of such acts of apostasy.

And again: "He who turns back on his heels shall not harm Allah a whit. Allah will certainly reward the grateful (3.145)." 5:55, 16:107 and countless other verses also emphasize the same message.

Apostasy laws, like the blasphemy laws have been borrowed from older scriptures. They have no basis in the Koran.



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Original post by RFUR1
Not by the logic of some on the TSR when they talk about Muslims. Muslims are individuals. If a Muslim kills an apostate I don't see what that has to do with another Muslim.


I'm not blaming other Muslims for actions they did not commit.

Here is something I posted earlier.

Original post by DiddyDec
I don't see how anyone can defend these anti-Islamic attacks but then go on to say that they condemn the attack on the Charlie Hebdo.

They are both an attack on innocent people for completely irrational reasons.

They are both appalling.

Why should innocent people suffer just because they are Muslim?

Why should innocent people suffer just because they work at Charlie Hebdo?

The only difference is your intolerance.
What do you think of these statistics?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6309983.stm
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Original post by DiddyDec
I'm not blaming other Muslims for actions they did not commit.

Here is something I posted earlier.


I didn't see your earlier post. I just thought you weren't being consistent with your views on the deaths of innocent people but you are. People should either care about ALL the innocent people killed or NONE of the innocent people killed.
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Original post by AstroNandos
What do you think of these statistics?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6309983.stm


Nothing. Muslims are people and people are entitled to have their opinions. It is ok to call out a person on their personal beliefs just as long as you are not offending them or disrespecting their religion.
Original post by RFUR1
Nothing. Muslims are people and people are entitled to have their opinions. It is ok to call out a person on their personal beliefs just as long as you are not offending them or disrespecting their religion.


"37% of 16 to 24-year-olds prefer Sharia"

So you're fine with this? Do you not think something should be done about this?
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Original post by AstroNandos
"37% of 16 to 24-year-olds prefer Sharia"

So you're fine with this? Do you not think something should be done about this?


Yes, people have free will and can believe what they want to believe. What can be done about this?

They also said they prefer Sharia, doesn't mean they want it implemented in the UK.

Besides isn't 1000 Muslims too small as a sample group so it is hard to reach any sort of conclusion even if it isn't conclusion?
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by shanny786
..I am a Muslim female, and i am not treated like a slave. Infact, the Quran has stated that you should show 3x more love to your mother than your father, as your mother comes first, then your mother, then your mother and then your father.

Also, when Muslim women get married, they should not take their husbands surname, as the women is still their own person.

Finally, how exactly does Islam treat women like slave? Please explain


Where do you live?

I mean treated as a possession.

Does the Qu'ran not say a man may take multiple wives? but it does not say a woman can take multiple husbands?
It also says you may take your enemies wives in marriage without their consent, which is basically sex slavery.
Does the Qu'ran not state men are superior to women? Do men not get twice the inheritance? is a man's testimony not worth double a woman's according to the Qu'ran?

Ect ect there is too much stuff in the Qu'ran to deny it. For example...

"Take in marriage of such other women as please you, two, or three, or four, and not more." "But if ye fear you can not act equitably towards so many, marry one only, or the slaves which ye shall have aquired."(Near the start of chapter 4...)

"Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great." (Qur'an 4:34)

How is having the right to beat a woman if they do not obey you, not having ownership over women?
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by RFUR1
Yes, people have free will and can believe what they want to believe. What can be done about this?

They also said they prefer Sharia, doesn't mean they want it implemented in the UK.


I don't know what can be done, but I think something should be done.

Surely if they prefer Sharia Law over British law then they'd rather be governed by Sharia?
Original post by AstroNandos
"37% of 16 to 24-year-olds prefer Sharia"

So you're fine with this? Do you not think something should be done about this?


No, they can think what they like.
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Original post by AstroNandos
I don't know what can be done, but I think something should be done.

Surely if they prefer Sharia Law over British law then they'd rather be governed by Sharia?


Yes they would but if they were given the choice of forcing Sharia on everyone would they do it? For instance if I preferred to live in a world where I paid no tax and there was no NHS (not saying I do) and I had the choice for this entire country to be governed like that I wouldn't change things as not everyone holds the same views as myself.

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